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New Holland TS100A-cracking front hubs

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tommix
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 7 California
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2009-09-25          165936


I recently sold a NH TS100A that had a FEL on it. When I sold the tractor it only had 740 hours on it. Whenever I did any heavy lifting with the FEL I would break a front hub, always the right side.

My question is, has anyone else had problems with cracking front hubs on New Holland tractors? My dealership would not stand by the product, they insisted that I abused the tractor which was not the case. Thank-you.

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-09-25          165937


Tom;
I'm not famlliar with that model, was it a two wheel drive or front wheel assist model? ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2009-09-25          165938


I'm not sure it was you, but there was a posting on JustAnswers.com with a guy who said he had 750 hours with the same issue. Was that you? ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5242 South Carolina
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2009-09-25          165941


This is not something to depend on but I believe have seen a posting along this line and it was due to rims with wrong size holes for the studs or such. Then the holes were bigger than should have been or lug nuts were smaller diameter than they were suppose to be.

PLEASE that is off of foggy memory. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2009-09-26          165951


Kenny I thnk you're thinking of a Kubota about the size of yours about a year or so ago.

I'm going to do some research on what the hub looks like. ....

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tommix
Join Date: Sep 2009
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2009-09-26          165956


My tractor was a 4WD model, I cracked 3 right front hubs. New Holland said that I must have had the bucket overloaded and been going real fast and hit a pothole or something to crack the hub. After every incident I was even more careful with the tractor. The last time the hub cracked I was moving some dirt about 50 yards and when the bucket was full I did not exceed 3MPH. After about 4 trips the right front hub started to leak and I knew that the hub had cracked again. I sold that tractor at auction and took it in the shorts, now I have a John Deere with a FEL and so far no problems at all. Thanks ....

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earthwrks
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2009-09-28          165994


Was it the actual rotating hub assembly or the spindle? In either case--and I don't know this machine--but maybe the spindle is out of tolerance or even bent and when the bearings are preloaded it stresses something. I did have the spindle break on my orphan backhoe. Turned out I brought in for hydraulic repair and the dumba---s got it stuck by their building and used a 20-ton hi-lo to pull it out. And guess where they hooked the chain? Yup, right around the front wheel and pulled it off. And they wanted to charge me for fixing the broken spindle! I almost did pay for it---until that is I saw the drag marks in the mud and deep ruts along the building when I went to pick it up.

Is it possible that you had it in for service and it fell off the jack? ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2009-09-28          165995



We've had several tractors that seemed to have this issue. It is unfortunate but buyer beware and even with dealer warning the customer wanted a particular loader on a tractor that was oversized for the tractor.

The loader companies build them, and people get excited about the added lift capacity and or the height that the loader will lift.

All this adds to the static front end weight and even without the loaded bucket the front end is nearer capacity then the tractor builder designed the front end for. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-09-28          165996


Art that may be the case with smaller tractors, but did you check out the size of this beast? The FRONT tires are nearly as tall as me!

If a guy can't put a loader on a TS100 then what good is it? ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
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2009-09-29          166019


Haven't there been other cases of catastrophic failures in fairly new NHs? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2009-09-29          166020


New Holland has sold a bunch of those tractors, if there was a wide-spread problem I'm sure it would have been well publicized by now.

The fact that it was only the right side that broke leads me to believe there was a problem with that one tractor in particular.

Best of luck. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2009-09-29          166028




Another note, we had a customer that used his tractor in the bunk silo to load. He had troubles with the right wheel, tire and then the hub. We only got involved with teh rim and then the hub and by the time it got to us he had already put a new tire on it.

We finally found that the nite operator had a problem with hitting the bunk wall while turning around to load. ....

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tommix
Join Date: Sep 2009
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2009-09-29          166031


Thank you all for your input on this subject. It was the rotating hub assembly that kept cracking. Art, I bought the tractor from a NH salesman that I went to school with, I told him how I intended to use the tractor and that I wanted a FEL on it. He asked if I wanted the light duty or heavy duty loader and I told him the heavy one. Not once did he tell me that if I was going to put a frontloader on the tractor that maybe I should be looking at a larger series tractor. It wasn't like I was using the loader for heavy work every day mostly for hauling fence posts around and the like. About once every six months I would haul some dirt around in it.

Murf, I would like to think that NH would have taken care of this problem but they are keeping it well under wraps. I know that mine is not an isolated case and NH knows that they have a problem with these front axles. I have written to NH corporation about this problem and they would not even respond to my letters!! I had my attorney write to them as well and they refuse to respond. That sends up a red flag to me, if I was the only one with the problem I would think that they would be glad to tell me that and tell me to take a hike. But NO response, not even a bad one. I was surprised that NH did not respond to my attorney but he wasn't, he figures that they are afraid of a class action suit if enough owners had the same trouble I did.

Art, I wish my dealer had told me not to put a FEL on this tractor but that was not the case which is why I think NH needs to shoulder some resposibilty.
I would love to get my hands on some internal NH memos and service data, if anyone has such access check it out. I think you will find a lot of problems.

There is a NH media kit published on 2/5/08 that talks about heavier front axles for loader work, now if they did not have a problem why would they be bringing this up??
Sorry for bending your ears, I just had to let off some steam. I hope you all have excellent luck with your NH tractors, thanks again for the discussion.




....

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tommix
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2009-09-29          166032


BTW, I just wanted to add that this is not my first tractor. I grew up on a dairy farm and have operated several different types of equipment and dozens of tractors so it is not like I don't know how to operate or take care of farm machinery.:) ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7211 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-09-29          166035


Quote:
Originally Posted by tommix | view 166031
Murf, I would like to think that NH would have taken care of this problem but they are keeping it well under wraps.I know that mine is not an isolated case and NH knows that they have a problem with these front axles.


Ok, two things, first of all, how in the world would NH (or any other company for that matter) be able to keep boards like this one quiet if there was a big problem?

A few years back JD had a big problem with the steering geometry in some it;s compact tractors, if you turned a corner on turf you tore the heck out of it. For a long time JD denied any problem at all. Then boards like this started talking about it. Suddenly JD redesigned the front end and had a 'fix' for the non-existent problem. Miracle of miracles!

Second, just how do you know there's a problem? If you do know the 'facts', why not just leave it with the attorney, liability is not something you can deny if there's proof of a flaw.

I saw your remark about the new axles, if that's the proof good luck, Ford completely redesigned the F-series pickup too, it doesn't mean there was any big flaws with the old one.

Sorry you had a tough break with that machine, but it sounds more like 'bending ears' than a design or manufacturing flaw, at least not in more than your machine or at best a handful of them anyways.

Best of luck. ....

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tommix
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 7 California
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2009-09-29          166036


Murf, I appreciate your feedback and opinion even though I don't agree with it. One question though...why didn't the New Holland Corporation respond to any of my letters? If I had a good product I would stand by it and if one person had a bad experience I would tell them that they are the exception. I would also produce a list of satisfied customers or whatever. I would think that we could agree that a company needs to maintain good customer relations and ignoring me does not do that. Like I have stated before, they could have responded to me, even if it was to tell me to buzz off. I would have gotten some satisfaction from that and they would have maintained their reputation in my mind. Anyway I will get off my soapbox now.

One reason that you may have not heard about this problem is that most of the discussion boards that I have come across are for the smaller SCUT's. If you know of a site that talks about issues concerning 90 HP and above let me know. HAVE A GREAT DAY. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2009-09-29          166039


Tom, unfortunately there's lots of people out there who scream at manufacturers when something goes wrong hoping for a free repair.

Every company has their own version of the "Bull Sh** Filter" in the case of most companies like this, it's the Dealer. If the dealer told the Company it was abuse, who do you think they're going to listen to?

It's been my experience that if you talk to the dealer and get nowhere, ask (politely) to speak to the Regional Service Rep. (RSR) for the Company.

If you calmly and rationally explain the problem and story to the RSR, hopefully in a short to the point and clear letter that includes a few pictures, it's been my experience they will listen.

If they continue to disagree, politely ask who is above them and repeat the process.

BTW, following your comments I called a buddy of mine who is well above the dealer level at NH, when I read your description of what happened, he stated it was the first he'd heard of it, but had heard of something similar with a different (handful of units) tractor in their line-up. In that case it was a machining defect in the spindle. He also said he would be willing to look into your case, until I mentioned you'd auctioned it off. At that point all he said was "Sorry, we only back up the original buyer, and only while they own it. We fix, we don't pay."

Best of luck. ....

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tommix
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2009-09-29          166041


Again, thanks for the input Murf. ....

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Art White
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2009-09-30          166069



I sell them too and we have not had problems with them. From time to time we do find a unique problem where something isn't machined well or right. ....

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cutter
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2009-10-01          166103


Although the "nice" levelheaded approach Murf describes is the first, best method, it doesn't always work.

Take for example my experience with Chrysler. Months worth of dealer repairs (and my time) to attempt to fix water leaks in the hardtop of my Wrangler Rubicon. The dealer was helpful but could not repair it.

The zone rep would not speak to customers directly, I tried. Finally, I asked for a replacement top, to no avail. So I went to the customer service department (which is in India or Pakistan, not sure) and they assured me the issue would be dealt with and that someone would be contacting me.

Again, no results and never a callback. This went on for another several weeks. Finally, I threatened to lemon law the vehicle if they were not willing to replace it and gave them several weeks to work this out. No reply from them but when I called them back they informed me that the zone rep (yea, the one that does not speak to customers) reported that I did not qualify for a replacement.

I was so mad that I went directly to lemon law proceedings. After e-mailing my spreadsheet with repairs, dates, times and names along with repair orders she stated that she wished they were all that easy. Received check in the mail a few weeks ago, good riddance. Sad part is, I liked the Jeep other than the water leaks.

Sorry to derail the thread, but given my experience, I personally feel that we don't always receive a satisfactory resolution to manufacturing defects or a one-time lemon piece of equipment. NH should have stepped up to the plate on this one. IMHO ....

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earthwrks
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2009-10-02          166123


Cutter, having sat in weekly meetings on the manufacturer's side, a lot has to do with where you live and the Lemon Law--or, how hard the actual trial judges throw the book at the mfg.

I worked for a mfg. who made convertible tops and folding hartop systems for nearly all the domestic and foreign cars EXCEPT Chrysler and Ford (those were made by Dura Sytems which I believe made Jeep's tops).

In our weekly meetings we (they) would decide which cars we were going to fight in court about buyng them back (these were $53,000 Mitsubishi Spyders). All those cars that were in Florida--were a hands-down literally "cut them a $53,000 [EACH!!] check right now" no questions asked. We wouldn't even look at the paper work or the complaint history! Then reason is Florida judges took ab extremely dim view of carmakers that couldn't make a leak-free convertible (in fact it wasn't even a "leak" per say--literally if ONE drop of water was seen on the inside of of one of the four side windows, we had to buy it back. ....

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cutter
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2009-10-02          166124


I understand what you are saying, some people simply can't be pleased.

I'm no fan of this type of action but when the damn hardtop runs water onto your lap and fills the passenger floor, enough is enough. I lived with it for a year. A little customer service would have gone a long way.

I believe the same is true for any manufactured item. Some are defective and if a company deals with it, they gain customers, not lose them as in my case. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-10-02          166127


Cutter, NOOO--I AGREE with you. AND I AGREE with the courts. There IS NO reason a mfg. can't make a car that doesn't leak. Toyota was able to make a car that didn't leak and they were held up in court as the standard to be held to. (Ironically, our co. made Toyota's convertible tops too so we really didn't have an excuse). It's called "State of the Art" in legalspeak--if one company can do something sucessfully, there is no reason why another mfg. can't do the same.

I was just giving you a behind-the-scenes insight to corporate thinking. In fact my '95 Dodge was bought back under the Lemon Law, and my skid steer was too (well not technically since there isn't one for equipment, but there is a theory in law called Strict Liability which this was).

And hmmm yours was a hardtop...Dura makes their softops or used to anyway. ....

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cutter
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2009-10-03          166128


Mine was the "Freedom Top", take a peek at a couple of the Jeep boards and you will see how widespread an issue this is. The ragtops leaked too but I never used mine, it came with the vehicle and was still in the factory wrap when I turned it all in. They came out with some foam pieces to fix the soft top leaks, a real Rube Goldberg affair, but apparently it worked as a patch. ....

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spinfarm
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2011-01-03          176180


I had a 2001 NH TN55D, 4wd/fel that went through 3 sets of cracked front hubs both sides. My dealer called NH on it & they admitted they knew they had a problem. When asked what they were doing about it they said nothing! My dealer then asked them what they (the dealer) should do when the hubs broke after the tractor was out of warrenty. New Holland's answer, "Replace the hubs & charge the customer"!! To my knowledge NH stopped making that model 3 years later.
I now own a 2005 NH TN70DA, 4wd, fel. It has 2800 hrs. & has gone through 2 hydraulic pumps which operates the loader & 3 pt. hitch. It's scheduled for the 3rd one tomorrow (1/4/11). Anyone else having pump problems with this or other NH tractors?
....

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