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Kubota RTV 900 with Curtis Cab

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1mountainman
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 16 Newfoundland, Pocono Mtns. N.E. PA
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2009-01-13          159385


Hi I recently purchased a 2006 RTV 900 with a Curtis hard shell cab, the issue is heat in general, the factory temp guage never moves ( yes it works)// engines seems never to warm up, the thermostat is factory and does work as well it opens at 180 as I tested it. We live in Pocono Mountains and having heat from the add-on blower would be a plus. I also have cardboard sleeve totally blocking off the radiator,that doesn't help.It has an electric fan- obviosly it never kicks on.The only time I ever saw the temp guage move and heat come out was driving in about 12" heavy wet snow where the machine had to really work to get across the fields, needle went up to the 1 o'clock position, just boardering the hot side- but thats only under extreme load running for awhile.:::--Any thoughts?

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Kubota RTV 900 with Curtis Cab

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5111 Northern Nevada
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2009-01-13          159388


I had an RTV a while back. Near as I can figure it burned about 3/4 of gallon of fuel an hour.

That's great economy but the down side is that is not a whole lot of BTU's spread out over time. Not much left over for the cab heater.

It is not a new problem. The original VW's ran fine in California but they had to add a supplemental gas fired heater for colder climates. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2009-01-13          159413


DR, that is a great point about the amount of fuel use and for power and heat. Wonder what BTU's would even been needed to heat the cab in the temp it is running in. Probably a gas heater would be right costly and have seen electric for 12 volt system but doubt the electrical system could handle the load or at least would need to be verified.
....

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Kubota RTV 900 with Curtis Cab

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1mountainman
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 16 Newfoundland, Pocono Mtns. N.E. PA
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2009-01-13          159417


I like your thinking,,, I bought my RTV used, but it only had 117 hours on it, now about 200 as I use it everyday! The former owner installed a 1000w inverter , unfortunately it can't handle even the smallest 12v space heater. I really don't feel like spending several hundred dollars for a powerful inverter, I have a "big Buddy" small propane heater on the floor, but space is an issue.Bottom line is I just perfer to use the engine heat, unfortunately their is none! ....

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Kubota RTV 900 with Curtis Cab

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7142 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-01-13          159418


I don't know jack about an RTV other than seeing them on the lot, is there a way to capture some of the heat off the HST cooling system / radiator and duct it to the inside of the cabin?

We did that with a full sized farm tractor and it made the cab so hot we had to run it with the windows open!.

Best of luck. ....

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1mountainman
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 16 Newfoundland, Pocono Mtns. N.E. PA
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2009-01-13          159422


Good Idea, not really an option here though. The RTV actual runs the coolant back through the filter base of the HST to help cool in summer / warm in winter, that leads me to believe the HST is no warmer than the coolant. ....

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Kubota RTV 900 with Curtis Cab

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2009-01-13          159425


Is there room in the rear for a small generator? I picked up a 1200W one from the local auto supply. It's the size of milk crate. 2-stroke, quiet and only $99--it'll run full-out all day on a gallon. I use to run a 4" grinder while running (5) 4-bulb fluorescent fixtures AND a 24" fan over the wood stove.

Using the genny, a home-style radiant or ceramic heater would work. I used a single ceramic heater (from Walmart $20) to heat a 30' camper trailer in 32 degree temps.
....

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Kubota RTV 900 with Curtis Cab

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2009-01-16          159503


1mountainman who is cold in cab..as I was walking across parking lot here this morning with coldest we have been in 2 or 3 years I thought of your cab and said...he needs to insulate it better as I wondered where my gloves were.

The problem is you are lossing more heat than your heater of producing. So either must increase heat production or reduce loss. OR BOTH maybe.

....

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1mountainman
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 16 Newfoundland, Pocono Mtns. N.E. PA
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2009-01-16          159504


Hi I am having a hard time understanding what you are trying to bring across, I am not losing any heat, the engine doesn't build any, not even enough to open the thermostat. ....

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Kubota RTV 900 with Curtis Cab

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2009-01-16          159506


1mountainman,

Your thermostat, if faulty, is probably stuck in the open position. The engine wouldn't last long if it was stuck in the closed position. A new thermostat may solve the problem.

Next...please make sure your radiator cap is functioning properly. A faulty radiator cap will prevent the engine from heating properly.

Make darn sure you don't have a restriction blocking coolant flow to the cab heater core. Check for a valve in the heater hoses, or possibly a sever kink in a hose. Also make sure your heater core isn't plugged up.

Blocking off the great majority of air flow through the radiator is generally the next thing we do. If you still have cab heating problems after doing these things, more drastic steps will have to be taken.

Joel ....

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1mountainman
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 16 Newfoundland, Pocono Mtns. N.E. PA
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2009-01-16          159507


Joel, thanks for input, EVERYTHING you mentioned has been done. I took the thermostat out first and put it on the stove in H2O to make sure operation, yes it works, valve that was added to heating system coolant works fine, no blockage, lastly I blocked off the radiator with card board.
I think alot of people responding aren't graping what I am bringing across, the engine doesn't even get hot enough to make the temp guage move, yes it works as well. the radiator has an electric fan and you can be sure that hasn't kick in. The only time it ever got hot was when I was working it very, very hard driving through 12" heavy wet snow where the temp needle went to the 1 o'clock position just to the break in the line between normal & hot. and that was because I had the cardboard across the radiator. At that time I knew it was capable of getting warm and the heating system did work wunderfully. It seems that under normal driving around conditions the engine doesn't get hot at all. ....

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Kubota RTV 900 with Curtis Cab

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1mountainman
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 16 Newfoundland, Pocono Mtns. N.E. PA
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2009-01-16          159508


Joel, I will check the cap though. I had a similar situation on my grandfathers car years ago. No one could figure it out, and all it was , was a faulty cap. ....

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Kubota RTV 900 with Curtis Cab

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2009-01-16          159512


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mountainman | view 159504
Hi I am having a hard time understanding what you are trying to bring across, I am not losing any heat, the engine doesn't build any, not even enough to open the thermostat.


Guess the cold (will not blame it on age yet) affected my memory, forgot you said the engine was not warming up. So would think Joel is on the track. Did read your replies to him since my post this AM. Is it real windy there where the wind blowing over the engine is enough to keep it cool? If there any way to block or reduced the wind that gets to the engine itself? Is it even possible there is some sheet metal missing to direct the air flow since you bought it used? ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5111 Northern Nevada
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2009-01-16          159515


It would not surprise me one bit to find out that the surface area of the block and head is enough to cool the engine if the weather is cold enough.

I have been to Fairbanks in the winter and seen it so cold that the biggest gas hog V-8 barely cracked the thermostat. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7142 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-01-16          159516


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mountainman | view 159507
I think a lot of people responding aren't graping what I am bringing across, the engine doesn't even get hot enough to make the temp guage move, yes it works as well.


I suspect if you got a remote temp. probe on a multi-meter you'd find the problem is not that the engine and HST isn't getting hot.

The gauges are notoriously finicky. They only read in a VERY narrow range. The needle doesn't even move for the first couple hundred degrees (i.e. -20 and 150 are the same place) then the gauge rises rapidly above ~160 to the maximum of ~220.

In other words the gauge only reads a narrow, probably 60 range of temperatures.

Put an aftermarket unit on and I'll bet you see there's a difference.

Best of luck. ....

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____________________________________________________________________________________
Kubota RTV 900 with Curtis Cab

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1mountainman
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 16 Newfoundland, Pocono Mtns. N.E. PA
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2009-01-16          159517


Hey you know you are probably hitting the nail on the head! It is fairly cold up here in the Northeast PA mountains, today now is 7 degrees , I do keep the RTV in the garage where it is down to 33 degrees, running the kid up to the bus stop the RTV struggles to get up my steep driveway, it's got to be in the hydraulic's. There is a coolant line going from the block to the filter base of the hydraulics, what would you suggest I do? Put a on/ off ball valve in that coolant line to manually control the collant getting back to hydraulics? ....

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Kubota RTV 900 with Curtis Cab

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2009-01-16          159518


1mountainman,

It's a big help knowing that you were able to see some change in the engine temperature while working the RTV pretty hard. This is a good sign.

Even so, I would certainly start with the radiator cap. It's not an expensive part, and it's worth replacing when considering the hours spent fiddling around trying other things.

Some of the tricks we use up here in the cold north can't be installed in these smaller vehicles. There just isn't enough room under the hood to install some of our favorite gadgets.

Check to see if you have enough room to install a manually operated valve in the lower radiator hose. Somehow I doubt it.....but it's worth a look-see.

Joel ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2009-01-16          159519


1mountainman,

Here's a handy device used on vehicles that operate in cold climates.

See the link below.

Joel ....


Link:   Heater Core Diverter Valve

 
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Kubota RTV 900 with Curtis Cab

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7142 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-01-16          159520


Joel, forgive me, I don't think I've had enough coffee yet this morning. :)

How exactly would stopping all flow to the heater help him with his problem of not enough heat in the cabin?

All Asian made diesels seem to have very efficient cooling systems.

Our Kubota's take a good amount of work to warm them up too, even a prolonged fast idle won't do it, you must WORK them for 10 minutes or more. In our case roading to the work area is more than enough. Even with grill covers in place they almost never run as warm as they do in warmer weather. Despite that though, they do in fact warm up.

I suspect in this case though it's just too much cooling and not enough work.

Best of luck. ....

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1mountainman
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 16 Newfoundland, Pocono Mtns. N.E. PA
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2009-01-16          159522


Joel, good idea on the lower hose valve, but once again the thermostat is not openning, so coolant is not even making it to the radiator via the top hose, in essence the thermostat is a valve and since it is closed putting another valve on really wouldn't help yet. TRhe Cap is a cheap start you are right, It still come down to the engine never warms up, thusly something is cooling it down, I'm really thinking the HST isn't getting warmed up and that is chilling the system. I am going to throw a new cap on, and put a ball valve inline to the HST to manually regulate coolant flow, I'll get back and post a response to see if that does the trick . I am pretty sure we are on the right track now thanks everyone for your input! ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2009-01-16          159523


Murf,

As they say, "There's more than one way to skin a cat". I've personally never tried it, but that's what they say.

A diverter valve, like the one I posted earlier, can be used in many different configurations. It can close off the flow of coolant to the heater core, or to the engine...depending upon how it's plumbed in.

I looked at the one I posted a link to, and it appears that the hose fittings would be too small to connect to the radiator hoses.....so you're right.....that one probably wouldn't work the way I had intended it to.

What I was trying to accomplish, was to divert all or most of the water in the radiator circuit, through the cab heater core instead........in essence converting the cab heater core to a small radiator....bypassing the main radiator altogether.

1mountainman,

I find it hard to believe that the thermostat isn't opening at all. My little 21hp Kubota engine will overheat if I'm not careful, even at temps well below zero. I have to carefully monitor the engine temp when I block off all of the air passing through the radiator.

I'll stop back after I get the driveway cleaned out.

Joel ....

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1mountainman
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 16 Newfoundland, Pocono Mtns. N.E. PA
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2009-01-16          159525


I like your thinking. Now that you put it that way I understand what you meant. I even thought about "disconecting" the radiator and using the heater core as the radiator, your idea would be better to accomplish same as it would be no-mess just flip a lever. Lots of different good ideas to ponder. And you are probably right the thermostat is openning , but ever so slight. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2009-01-16          159529


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mountainman | view 159517
The RTV struggles to get up my steep driveway, it's got to be in the hydraulic's.


The problem referred to in the above quote is not about engine temp, it's about power.

Basically the RTV is puny. It is rated at about 22 HP but it is hooked to a power hogging transmission. Up at my altitude it only makes about 16 HP on a hot day and I figured it takes about half that HP to just run that very complex HST.

I would bet money that if someone put an RTV on the dyno it would get 10 HP or less at the wheels.

BTW, make sure you have Super UDT in your machine. In my experience regular hydraulic fluids will rob even more power from the RTV. ....

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Kubota RTV 900 with Curtis Cab

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2009-01-16          159531


Rankin, what is your opinion on why the hydro sucks up power? My experience has been very positive with hydros. In fact, as was discussed a few years ago, hydros were working their way into the over-the-road semi truck market replacing the entire gear transmissions. They found great gains in fuel economy. ....

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DRankin
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2009-01-16          159532


The RTV does not have a standard tractor HST.

Unlike a tractor HST, it has to shift itself through the speed ranges so it has more bypass valving and circuitry and is very heavy.

The RTV weighs 2000 pounds. That's 400 pounds heavier than the Kawasaki diesel mule and 600 pounds heavier than the much larger Honda MUV. I'm thinking all that extra weight is in that huge transaxle.

Kubota sez the RTV transaxle is a modified version taken from the B7800, but the RTV is 250 pounds heavier than a base 7800.

The Kubota mechanics who tried to get more power out of my RTV said it has a lot more widgets and gizmo's (tech talk) inside the HST. My RTV would stall the HST if I chained it up in snow.

Actually it would be a fine set-up if it was hooked to a 40 horse power plant.

....

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kthompson
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2009-01-16          159533


1mountainman, just wondering and it always address sorry; how long are you driving at the time? ....

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Murf
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2009-01-16          159534


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 159531
My experience has been very positive with hydros.


Jeff, the proof is in the 'putting'. The 'putting' of the right foot down on the accelerator that is!

As an example, my Kubota (at home) has a ~40hp engine. I also have a turbo diesel SmartCar that makes ~40hp.

The tractor will run at about 25 mph on flat land. There is a short but rather steep hill between me and my airport, it slows to ~15mph going over that hill.

The SmartCar will easily run to 85mph (where it hits the speed limiter) and will go over that same hill without downshifting and will easily clear it at any speed I like without losing any speed.

The tractor has MUCH deeper (overall) gearing, and has gobs more torque. It is also a HST drive.

The SmartCar is an automtic transaxle.

BTW, my previous 'personal tractor' was only a 35hp model, and climber that same hill FAR better. It was a gear (GST) drive.

From what I've read the OTR trucks use a hybrid drive. It uses a CVT to get to speed then locks it as a solid gear drive. The economy comes from eliminating bad drivers, not the mechanics of it.

Best of luck. ....

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1mountainman
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2009-01-16          159536


Murph, what your thinking on why the coolant flows through the HST? to help warm it in the winter or cool it in the summer? Mostlikely the answer is both ....

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earthwrks
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2009-01-16          159537


Murf the one I saw was in a heavy equipment mag. It looked like a big pump hooked to a big hyd. motor. Don't recall anything about locking up or a CVT.

Kenny: "just wondering and it always address sorry"
What the heck are you on, man? Is it something in the water down there or lack of? (It IS a lack of SOMETHING!)

And don't Murf-it and blame your spellchecker 'cause you are waaaaaaay beyond needing a spellchecker! ....

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Murf
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2009-01-16          159539


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mountainman | view 159536
Murph, what your thinking on why the coolant flows through the HST?


I'd be surprised if it was for heating, a typical HST makes more than enough heat of it's own, and usually warms faster than the engine does. The friction and load makes them start to heat up the minute it begins rolling.

They probably thought it was easier to use it as a cooler than trying to add a second seperate circuit and cooler to it.

Jeff, the only two I've seen were a CVT (by Volvo if memory serves) and a semi-auto that was computer controlled, much like a bigger version of the 'bota GST system, an automated hydraulically operated clutch and gear shifter all in one.

Maybe Kenny is fine, maybe you need a 'redneck-checker', whad'dya think huh? LOL

Best of luck. ....

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kthompson
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2009-01-16          159541


EW, I wonder, you wander. I wonder, why you wander. I wonder while you are wandering. Just keep your wander North and South and not East.

Now I leave. ....

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earthwrks
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2009-01-16          159542


Kenny, if you were a tree would you be leafing or leaving? :) Awe, come on give Jeffy a hug! Thaaaaat's better---let it out.

Murf, that redneck checker would pretineer lock up I s'pose. ....

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1mountainman
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2009-01-19          159611


Joel. Although I had checked all the lines for kinks from the bottom up, it appears I found a kink today that you could not see by eye. The heater core box has the inlet // output ports sticking out the top straight up, the coolant lines come from the underbelly of machine, rather than putting a 90 degree eldbow in the dealer just clamped the hose on creating a kink, thusly almost totally cutting off flow. I rerouted and all is good! Temp guage still doesn't move, but i have hot heat in cab. ....

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kthompson
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2009-02-02          160054


Congratulations. Now watch the hours rack up! :) ....

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