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Older Gator grinding gears

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gacannon
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3 Georgia
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2008-05-27          154001


Motor pulley is full out and not sticking.
New belt.
The transmission pulley still rotates when engine is at very slow idle. Can not idle down any further.
you can stop the transmission pulley with your finger but its rotation is still enough to cause a grinding of the gears.
Belongs to elderly parents, the gear grinding is a problem for them.

The clutch pulley is fully disengaged, no question about it.

Can you move the engine a little to get some more belt slack.

The problem has grown worse over the years. Transmission is worn in and has little internal resistance friction.

Thought about shimming the driven spring pulley on the transmission to widen the stopped, fully extended position of the pulley.

Figure either move the engine back or shim the transmission pulley to give more slop.

There needed to be a brake to stop the input shaft to the transmission on this model. Bad design. I am sure people have this problem.

Otherwise its a good machine.

Takes nothing to spin the transmission input shaft so any friction on the belt is enought.

Any help appreciated. Figure someone might have an easy fix.

Bob, Retired Mech Eng.

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Older Gator grinding gears

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-05-28          154006


Bob,

You mentioned that this thing has a new belt.

Is it possible that the new belt is just a bit too short?

For things like this, where belt length is critical, I'd make sure that the new belt isn't a cheap import. Some of the belts we see are coming in off the ships, and they aren't even close to the proper length.

You should also check to see if the new belt is the proper width. If your new belt is just a millimeter or two wider than the original, it will continue to make contact with the pulley, when it should be disengaged.

I'm only guessing here.....but I believe your new belt is shorter than it should be. If so, replace it with a belt about a half-inch longer.

Joel ....

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Older Gator grinding gears

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-05-28          154013


Bob; That's just the way the Gstors were and still are designed, same principal as the old Cushman moror scooters we rode as kids in the 50's. I've owned every series Gator except the three wheeler and the battery powered one. The XUV series now is fuel injected so the idle can be controled much better. Have you serviced or overhauled the carburetor and ignition system? My reason for suggesting this is to get the engine to idle more slowly and smoother so you don't have to give it a bit of throttle to keep it from killing when you put thew shift lever in gear. I'm guessing that perhaps your parents come from the old school like me that hearing some gear grind bothers them. My 07 XUV will grind just like they always have if you have it above idle. I've thought too about a brake of some sort on the clutch mechanism, but getting it to realease at the precise time that the clutch grabs might take a bit of precision that would cost lots of money. Frank. ....

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Older Gator grinding gears

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gacannon
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3 Georgia
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2008-05-29          154050


You are right about the idle. Get is slow enough and it will stop but its idling really slow and a little unstable.

Folks are in their mid 80's and things like gears grinding make them scared.

Thought about shimming the transmission pulley to make it more spread at idle to loosen the belt even further. Also thought about loosening the motor and see if it would move back just a bit to loosen the belt.

I bet when the transmissions are new, they have more internal friction and turn less freely. This gator has seen alot of miles on the farm and the trans input shaft turns absolutely free. Any belt friction and it will turn. Idle the engine up and it turns faster making for more grinding.

You help is appreciated very much.

Bob. ....

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Older Gator grinding gears

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2008-05-29          154053


Not sure the model we have but had I realize the transmission set up we would not have bought it.

Just wondering, is there a way to install an electric pto type clutch? Or would it also turn when disengaged due to how little friction there is? How about the old style clutch like I guess is still used on go carts in the engine? kt ....

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Older Gator grinding gears

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-05-29          154064


Bob; Your comment about your parents being scared of grinding gears very much reminds me of my Father who lived to 95, never took a pill in his life, worked in the shop till 92 type guy used to enjoy driving whatever series Gator I had at the time around the farm or whereever we might find him within a 10 mile radius. He was "Afraid" to put it into gear because of the grind thing so he would try to put it into gear slowly and in the real world just made it grind for a longer period. Finally I convinced Dad to let it idle then put it into gear more quickly and forcefully and far less grinding would occur. He did start doing it that way, but under his breath always muttered something like Chevrolet had syncromesh in 39, why the H### can't Deere figure that out. Today while "Cheerefully" going nursery shopping for some perfect potted plant with the Mrs. I saw a five wheel Deere AMT sitting at the ready at the door of the nursery, It shined like ma new one. Frank. ....

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Older Gator grinding gears

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IgotAgator2
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3 Alabama
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2008-12-15          158585


Okay, this is apparently a trend. I have a 2001 Gator 6x4 that I got at an auction, thought I was going to sell it, but I enjoy it far too much! Now I'm welding bumpers, winch mounts and all of the little goodies that you can put on one. I too noticed that when it is idling in neutral, it grinds pretty bad. The belt length is an issue, but if the belt is loose it still turns the secondary clutch as the driven clutch idles. I tried adjusting the carburetor...John Deere made it dummy proof, you can only adjust rich or lean with a limiter. They had it running real rich, I leaned it out, but it tried to choke out. I tried everything I could think of to stop the grinding, until I finally pushed the brakes in all the way and noticed there was no grinding. I thought I had something, but I think it was just the gas fumes...it still grinds. Can ANYone here think of a way to put a little friction on the secondary clutch drive to keep it from spinning freely? My guess is that it has something built into the design that keeps friction on the shaft, and well used Gators just wear in so that friction is gone. If there was a grease fitting on the input shaft, bearing grease would probably be enough to put a little drag on it. I can't think of anything that wouldn't result in a funny home video or in a hospital. Ideas? ....

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Older Gator grinding gears

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gatoraider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 540 Maryland
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2008-12-16          158594


Gentlemen, everything sounds good, but I haven't heard anybody talk about the front linkage. There can be ZERO play in the shift linkage. Any play at all will be picked up in the transaxle shift arm and cause it to grind. That's why the springs are at all the pivot points. If the front spring is broken and allows play in the linkage it will transfer back to the transaxle and cause it to grind. Low one thousands rpm should be plenty low to shift a transaxle if you shift it firmly. And yes, the driven clutch will always be rotating. ....

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Older Gator grinding gears

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pwengland
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2 Australia
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2011-09-12          180316


Appreciate this an old post but thought I'd chime in. Purchased an older gas (abt 2003) 6x4 a while back. Quite rough and about 1800 hrs on it. The gear grinding was unbelievable so after a bit of research I just decided to go all out and replace the primary and secondary clutch. Job was done and now gears change quietly and smoothly like a brand new machine. Am sure it could have been done much more cheaply by reconditioning one at a time, but i figure with two brand new clutches the machine should be trouble free for another 1500 hours... ....

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Older Gator grinding gears

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LizzeB
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 9 Memphis, MI
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2011-09-14          180354


This is an old post, and I'm not a tech. but my old gator (bought off a senior) grinds upon shifting. The seller warned me of this. SHe had installed a spring on the accelerator, as well as lifting her foot up under the peddle before shifting. Low and behold,..... it works!!!!! The machine drops the idle and NO GEAR GRINDING UPON THE SHIFT. May not be the same problem you've experienced, but I much rather try this option before starting a serious overhaul.

We did, however, change the whole clutch assembly to prevent any break downs. But again, I still lift accelerator up to silence my shift. ....

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Older Gator grinding gears

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LizzeB
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 9 Memphis, MI
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2011-09-14          180355


This is an old post, and I'm not a tech. but my old gator (bought off a senior) grinds upon shifting. The seller warned me of this. SHe had installed a spring on the accelerator, as well as lifting her foot up under the peddle before shifting. Low and behold,..... it works!!!!! The machine drops the idle and NO GEAR GRINDING UPON THE SHIFT. May not be the same problem you've experienced, but I much rather try this option before starting a serious overhaul. ....

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Older Gator grinding gears

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Oldbear
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3 Oxford, WI
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2011-11-09          181143


Mine was doing the same and shifted hard out of reverse. After reading posts here and on another site, I turned the idle down to just above where the alternator? far left idiot light comes on. Helped some. Then I grabed the air compressor hose and started blowing out the primary clutch. OMG !!! Can't believe the junk that came out of there. Obviously had never been done. Now it shifts super smooth and no grinding. ....

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Older Gator grinding gears

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LizzeB
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 9 Memphis, MI
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2011-11-10          181164


Love the story of your father, It makes me appreciate my 2-footed-driving mother (for real she will step on the brake at the same time she's on the gas). And whenever I suggest otherwise, she insists it's habit from being taught (60+ yrs ago) to drive on a stick- like none of us learned on a stick, originally! Oh well. Brake pads, $30, parents grumbling ..priceless ....

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