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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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bunnspecial
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 22 New York
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2008-01-27          150789


I own both a B21 and B1750 and have a Landprice 48" box scraper. While it is a light duty scraper, it does a good job. It does not cover the rear wheel width on the B21 however.
Kubota makes a 54" box scraper which would work fine but is is way more expensive than a Woods 60" scraper. Has anyone used a 60" scraper on a B21 or B1750? I'm not as concerned over the 3 point lift capacity as the ability of either tractor in pulling it effectively.

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-27          150792


Bunnspecial,

I'm not sure either of your tractors would be able to handle a 60" box scraper. That's asking a lot of such a light machine.

You may have enough horsepower, but due to the light weight of your tractors, I believe you'll find that tire spin would be the biggest problem.

Joel ....

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2008-01-27          150793


I can't say that I've seen every mis-match yet but I have seen to big of a box scraper on a tractor for it's weight. Depending on the chores, it will just mean that you won't pull a full load. We've even balanced BX22's to the full sized 48" and without a full bucket on the front you still couldn't pull a full load. I'd try a 60"! ....

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2008-01-27          150794


Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnspecial | view 150789
I'm not as concerned over the 3 point lift capacity as the ability of either tractor in pulling it effectively.
Your concern about pulling a 60 incher is valid. A fair amount of tractive force is required to get full use out of an expensive investment like a 60" Woods. It's definitely out of B1750 territory, probably too much for the the B21 also - assuming it's still wearing R4 tires.

That said, a 54" boxblade of less expensive manufacture may be the answer for your B21. I'd still consider 54" too much box for a B1750 however. That said, Agri-Fab makes a 54" light duty. Northern Tools sells them for about $200 FOB. Probably TOO light duty for a B21 though. LandPride makes several 54 inchers. I'm sure there are others, start with the link below.

//greg// ....


Link:   Landpride

 
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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-27          150799


Bunnspecial,

I understand the need for having a snowblower that is wider than the tractor, but I'm not so sure I understand why you believe you need a box scraper that extends beyond the tires.....unless you're using it for snow removal?

Could you explain the need for a wider box blade? There may be better solutions.

Joel ....

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2008-01-27          150800


Quote:
Originally Posted by candoarms | view 150799
I'm not so sure I understand why you believe you need a box scraper that extends beyond the tires.....
For somebody that's been hanging around this website as long as you, I find that to be an astounding question. Of COURSE you want a boxblade to match/exceed outside tire width. Otherwise you'll leave tire marks and compaction all over the area you're working.

Even if you match the outside tire width exactly, you're still going to leave tire marks/compaction on the turns. That's why it's advisable to have a BB that's even wider. The singlemost limiting factor is the tractor's pulling capability as defined by horsepower/weight/tires.

//greg// ....

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-27          150801


Greg_g,

It's quite possible that I have no idea how to use a box scraper properly. I'm learning all of this as I go.

I use a box scraper for filling in holes, and cutting down humps. These problems show up every Spring....due to frost heave in the driveway. When I'm done with the heavy work, I hook up to a spring-tooth drag and finish off the project with a well-groomed appearance.

I've never viewed a box scraper as being a finish tool. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

Joel ....

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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bunnspecial
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 22 New York
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2008-01-27          150802


Wow, so may responses so fast, you guys are great! In reference to the tire tread, you may have a point. Currently my turf tires on the B1750 are about 50" wide on the outside edge. When I use the 48" scraper, I bearly notice any tread showing. I'm looking for a solution that may not exist, a box scraper that will work on either tractor. On the B21 I don't like taking off the backhoe but my B1750 doesn't have a loader. Maybe a 30' trailer to bring them both to the job site!!!!!!!!!!!!! ....

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-27          150803


Bunnspecial,

I have no idea how you are using your box blade, but maybe a solution would be to use a spring-tooth drag to go over the area when you're done moving the soil from 'point A' to 'point B'.

You can easily find a spring-tooth drag, or harrow to fit on the 3-point hitch, and your tractor will easily pull one that's 7 feet wide.

If a harrow won't do the job, possibly a 3-point rake will fill the bill.

Joel

See link below..........

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Link:   7 ft. Spike-Tooth Harrow

 
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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2008-01-27          150806


I'm sure you know that traction's about tread type and condition, 2 or 4, one or two locking diffs, weights, soil type/compaction/moisture, digging depth, operator skill, and what you had for breakfast. There are rules of thumb, but as they say, individual mileage may vary. Another variable is direction: the more you can go down slope the more you can drag; the more you can repeat at right angles the less width you need.

....

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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bunnspecial
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 22 New York
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2008-01-27          150807


Joel,

Most of my work is maintaining compacted dirt or RCA driveways with occational leveling of a yard before seeding. Yes, I agree that weight, soil condition and other factors greatly affect how your blading goes.

I'm hoping someone chimes in who owns a B1750 or B21 with direct experience who can share what size scraper they use. ....

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-27          150808


Bunnspecial,

I own a Kubota B2100. It's similar in size and weight to your B1750. My box scraper, which I only use for driveway maintenance, is a 4 foot model. During the Spring, when the gravel is wet with melting snow, and very heavy, the 4 footer is about all my tractor will handle. (Turf tires on my machine, as well.) Even with this small scraper, I sometimes find it hard to pull along without spinning the tires.

I've used the box scraper in the yard just one time, and that was to move some soil around after I had some trees dug out with a backhoe.

I've never considered the box blade to be a finishing tool. The box blade, to me, is equivalent to a carpenter's rasp. the drag is equivalent to a carpenter's sandpaper.

Tire tracks never bothered me in the least, as I go back over the soil with a tiller, or drag, before seeding it anyway. Am I doing something wrong? Hell, I don't know.

Joel ....

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-01-27          150809


As to the boxblade being wider than the tractor tires; I have a Landpride six footer with seven scarifier teeth, (not hydraulic), on the 4310. A couple examples of why it is better being wider than the tractor, I have taken soil away from building foundations where the scraper kinda rubbed along the cement and ended up with a nice flat bottom cut. Another example is, I have a borrow pit where I load lots of fill dirt from. I can cut a nice flat bottom trench pulling the soil up out of the pit for easier loading with he FEL. The box blade would get my vote for being the most usefull three point tool I've ever owned, anytime something else isn't on the three point I have the BB on just for ballast. Another new trick I learned with it was early this winter we had an awfull ice storm , so I set the teeth down about an inch below the blade and it did a pretty good job. the teeth would tear the ice loose and the box would carry it along till it got full. Frank. ....

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-27          150811


Frank,

Your JD 4310 weighs nearly twice as much as my Kubota B2100. It's understandable that you'd be able to handle a much bigger box blade than I'm able to pull.

Every so often I like to pull the gravel up back up onto the driveway, from near the edge. I do this by adjusting my 3-point hitch so that it drifts off to the right about as far as it will go, and then adjust it further so that the right side hangs down just a bit further than does the left.

This allows my box scraper to hang out over the right side of the tractor by about 2 inches, where it digs in a bit deeper to help maintain a crown on the driveway.

Adjusting the hitch in this fashion exposes more of the left wheel track, but it's on a driveway.....where wheel tracks are pretty common. hehehe.

Greg_g's comments seem to suggest that maybe I'm doing something wrong. He got me to wondering if maybe I've been using my box scraper incorrectly all these years. I honestly don't know what I could do differently, considering the traction limitations I face. Who said size doesn't matter? I know for a fact that a 60" box scraper on my tractor would be good for nothing BUT ballast, since I would never be able to use for its intended purpose.

Since I purchased my tractor to be primarily as a mowing machine, I don't really want any extra weight on the rear. The less weight I have, when traveling over the lawn, the better. I use the box blade as ballast once in a while, when using the loader to haul gravel. However, for most loader work, I prefer to use the weights on the 3-point drawbar.

Joel

See attached photo

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Picture Link

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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bunnspecial
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 22 New York
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2008-01-27          150814


Joel,

That's a nice setup on the weights, what kind are they or did you make them?

Gary ....

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-27          150818


Gary,

These weights came from the North Dakota Department of Weights and Measures. (Rejects)

Each weight is (about) 50 pounds. However, over time these weights get dropped, banged together, or otherwise chipped by the State workers. When this happens, the weights no longer weigh exactly 50 pounds, and therefore can no longer be used for certifying scales. (out of tolerance)

I picked up these weights at a State government surplus auction. The carry handles work perfect for running my drawbar through.

The reason I use these weights most of the time, rather than the box scraper, is that I can also use my hitch clevis and a cable, at the same time, without removing the weights. The weights can either be lowered, or raised, so as not to interfere with the cable when I'm dragging a railroad tie, or a bunch of branches.

These weights are far more convenient than having to work around a box scraper.......and they work perfectly.

To remove the weights, I've placed a short piece of railroad tie on the floor in the barn. I back up and set the weights down on the railroad tie, then simply disconnect the drawbar from the lower 3-point arms. There is just enough play in the handles to allow the drawbar to move back and forth, providing for very easy hookup and disconnect.

I believe a set of suitcase weights would work just as well, but I know for a fact that they wouldn't be as cheap! I got myself about a dozen of these weights for 5 dollars, at public auction. What a bargain!

Joel ....

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2008-01-27          150838


Quote:
Originally Posted by candoarms | view 150811
Greg_g's comments seem to suggest that maybe I'm doing something wrong.
Not even close. I was just expressing my astonishment that you'd never before heard about getting a boxblade equal to or wider than your tire track. Same philosophy applies to finish mowers, flail mowers, rotary cutters, tillers, landscape rakes, rear blades, et cetera.

I too consider my boxblade the most versatile of all my TPH implements (finish mower, two rotary cutters, landscape rake, bale spike, boom pole, rear blade, seeder/spreader, chain harrow, log splitter). It's clear that you've not yet even scratched the surface of your own boxblade potential. I now understand though, that its narrow width and the wrong tires will work against ever actually achieving that full potential.

//greg// ....

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B21 and Box Scraper Size

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5242 South Carolina
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2008-02-18          151459


Joel, just stumbled across this.

I have used box blade to pull small stumps, push logs into piles, pull dirt around, cut down high spots and such. For some things really prefer a scrape blade. How you can roll dirt or bed it with a box blade as you can with a scrape blade that has rotation and angle adjustments is beyond me. There are some lighter weight blades that have an ajustment that allows you to shift the blade to a side. This may be an option for you.

Joel, you might could have another set of mounts added to your box blade so you can mount it offset to fully cover one set of tires, for me would be the right tires. With your ability to find odd items you might come up with a set up that would allow you to slide the box blade to either side giving you more flexibility without using a wider blade. However, it would try to pull your tractor sideways.kt ....

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joedepilot
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5 murphy nc
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2008-02-20          151500


i use box blade to finish grade. Have you tried to move wheels all the way in? 4 ft full of gravel is all my b2400 4x4 will handle. I can adjust my box to level 1-2 in gravel. ....

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