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banton
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 22 Bainbridge Island, WA
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2008-01-05          149888


Hello, all! First post, but a reader for a few months. Love the information, and just want to kind of see if my thinking is correct on a new tractor.

I have not driven one but I will test drive before I buy, however. My questions to you all are based on my needs.

I just purchased 5 acres, with two levels to the property. The new house will go on the top-most piece of the property (property is a rectangle, not a square). There is a 5-stall barn and 3 acre pasture on the property down below. In between the home "footprint" and the barn is a fairly good grade, but it is a pretty gentle slope. I intend to mow pasture and do the initial landscaping at the house (as well as cut the lawn weekly). We will also terrace a couple of levels of outdoor porches. Muck stalls, carry feed and hay, move rock, sand and dirt, and grade and finish the 1/4 mile driveway, dig a few additional post holes for fencing. No brush of any consequence, as the whole property is cleared. Trees, yes, but not too close together or too many. This is Washington State, so snow is not an issue.

So, I suspect that I will need an FEL as well as a blade, box scraper, tiller and a mower. I will rent a BH or trencher if the need arises. With that in mind, the next move should be to look at PTO on the tractors that I am considering, yes? Since I want the widest possible attachments available for a light-to-mid sized CUT, I'm thinking that I would need 25-27 PTO horsepower, which translates roughly to a 32-35 horsepower tractor. That should allow me to use 72" wide attachments, I think. Am I tracking so far??

Have seen Kabota 2800, 3030 and L30/40 Grand. The Kabota guy showed me his service and parts area when I asked to see them, and introduced me to the Service Mgr, who filled me in on what they see from both tractors for both warranty and after-warranty work. The sales guy was probably new, as he knew less about tractors than I do......

I have the space for the tractor in a loafing shed that is enclosed, and I can get up to the barn, but not the stalls. Can you say "wheel barrow"?

I would like to hear if my methodology is correct, and if I am missing something. Are my assumptions correct on the PTO horsepower requirements for usable implements? How much hp do I need and how much PTO hp for wide attachments (72" if possible)?

I would like to be able to mow the lawn without leaving ruts. Are these tractors too heavy? Will I be able to do the chores above while still being light enough to have a lawn?

Help me get the right ride!!

Thanks,

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-05          149890


Banton,

Hello, and welcome to the group. Nice having you aboard.

Let me see if I can help you, as I believe you have somehow mixed things up a bit.

You're wanting to know how much PTO horsepower you'll need in order to perform certain chores. I believe you've somehow been misled, or you simply misunderstood something you read.

The PTO shaft (located at the rear center of the tractor) is not used for plowing, cultivating, or for operating any blade or disk. The PTO shaft is a rotational drive shaft, which is used for powering those attachments which require more than a simple pull or push to make them work properly.........such as tillers, mowers, cement mixers, post-hole augers, grain augers, water pumps, electrical generators, balers, swathers, snowblowers, and many others.

For all other implements..... such as box blades, scrapers, plows, cultivators, disks, etc.......it is only necessary that your tractor has enough traction to pull the the implement along. These implements do not require any additional power from a PTO shaft.

Like you, I have about 5 acres of land that slopes downward to a small stream that runs through my pasture. I mow about two acres of my land, with the balance being garden and pasture area. Mowing around the trees in the yard was one of things I wanted my tractor to be able to do......which was one of the major factors in limiting the size my tractor. The tractor had to be big enough to perform all of my chores, yet small enough to clear the trees, and fit into the garage.

For mowing grass, my tire selection was very important. I didn't want tires that would tear up my sod as I turned. Therefore, I went with the turf type tires, as these are designed primarily for mowing duty......which is what my tractor's primary mission would be.

My next consideration was engine horsepower, because I wanted a tractor that would easily handle and power a mower of at least five feet in width. Any mower bigger than that would prevent me from getting between the house and the well, or between the well and the propane tank. Therefore, a mower of five feet in width was the MAXIMUM width acceptable.

It just so happens that it doesn't take much of a tractor to properly power a 5' mower. The Kubota B2100 is just the perfect size, and I was lucky to find a used one within 75 miles of me.

I use my 21 horsepower Kubota for everything I do around my farm......gardening, tilling, planting, grading, cultivating, plowing, seeding, spraying, and even mowing. There is nothing my Kubota won't do.......provided that I take care not to attempt to put any implement on it that the tractor is not capable of lifting or powering properly.

This means that I must be careful when selecting implements for my tractor. I could possibly pull a 6 foot disk, but with turf tires, my traction would be limited......therefore I went with a 5 footer. Same with a plow. I might have the power to pull a two bottom plow, but with turf tires, I settled for a single bottom, instead.

Hopefully this will help you gain a better understanding of the difference between traction, horsepower, and PTO ratings. While they do overlap in some areas, for the most part we're talking about three separate factors, which must be accounted for individually.

If you're still confused, please ask for further clarifications. I'll do my best to help explain this further.

Joel ....

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banton
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 22 Bainbridge Island, WA
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2008-01-05          149893


Joel-

Thanks for the informative piece, and I would bet that any new person here would benefit by it.

I understand about turf tires, but will they limit what I can lift with the FEL without spinning tires? Would they stop me from being able to pull implements up a decent grade? I ask because I don't see the primary mission of my tractor to be mowing, rather a combination of chores listed in my first post, with mowing being one of those chores. Now that i think about it, I won't really need to mow the pasture, as we have horses.

It sounds as though I do not need as large or powerful a tractor as I had thought, then. Would you recommend something a bit smaller, or stick with something between 28-30 hp?

Thanks again,

Bill ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-05          149895


Banton,

You would be surprised at how much I can do with my little 21 horsepower Kubota. It's a fantastic machine.

Determining the primary role for your tractor is the first step in deciding upon the proper size, weight, power, and tire combinations.

If you won't be doing much mowing, then you need to sit down and decide what the tractor's primary role will be.

If you plan on doing some farming with it, then I suggest that you go with a slightly bigger and heavier tractor, along with Agriculture (R1) type tires.

Traction is a combination of four things....Weight, Tire type, 4-wheel drive capability, and soil conditions. (Inclination being a given) The steeper the hill, the less traction you'll have. Even if you have the proper amount of traction, you'll then need the proper amount of horsepower to fight your way through the obstacles.

Let's say for a minute that you won't need turf tires. Maybe you can get by with Industrial tires. (R4)

Industrial tires are a compromise between turf tires and agriculture tires. While they have a slightly more aggressive tread than turf tires, they won't tear up the sod nearly as badly as will the big, deep, and aggressive bars on the Ag tires. It's possible that the Industrial tires would suit your needs better than the turf tires would. These tires would allow you to do some occasional mowing without doing much if any damage to the sod.

As for horsepower ratings, I'll leave that up to you. However, if it were not for the limitations I face in my yard, I'd much rather have a slightly bigger tractor. If it were up to me, I'd probably have myself a Kubota B7800, or a B3030. Either that, or the new Cub Cadet Ex3200. Unfortunately, the layout of my property poses a few obstacles that I MUST work around, and these greatly limit my options when it comes to picking a tractor.

Perhaps, someday in the future, I'll get myself a fully dedicated mowing machine. Once I do that, my tractor will then be freed up from that job -- meaning that I could then upgrade it, as well.

There is a slight possibility that I may end up with an additional eleven acres in the near future. My neighbor hasn't yet said yes.....nor has he said no. If I get that additional 11 acres, I'll be moving up in tractor size a whole lot sooner than I might have otherwise.

Good luck with your decision. If there is anything I can do to help further, please don't be afraid to ask.

Joel ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2008-01-05          149898


Banton: You're on the right track. I have a 33hp rated 27 pto New Holland (TC33D) HST with SuperSteer and 4x4, no FEL (I have backhoe and skid steer for now and will buy one soon). It weighs about 3200 lb. It has a good compromise of weight versus traction versus cost. It will hande any 72" implement. I have a King Kutter 5' brush hog which is not overbuilt but heavy--under certian conditions I can lift the front wheels like climbing hills forward--and that's with 160lb. of front weights hanging off the front bumper.

Your loafing barn--be sure you can drop the ROPS (roll bar) if the overhang is too low. Not all ROPS are made to drop or fold back over to reduce overall height. That fact alone may narrow your choice for you. And seeing as you have multiple grade issues insofar as driving on them I wouldn't let anyone tell you to modify a non-folding ROPS to make it fit. You will compromise your and the tractor's safety.

And speaking from experience, if you have a lot of sun, you might want to consider a rigid sunshade or canopy. They make life sooo much easier being out in the sun for hours on end. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2008-01-05          149900


Good advice has been given so far. I generally believe that 25 pto hp will properly power a 60" rotary cutter in thick material (2" or thicker or very heavy, woody brush). It will also power a 72" rotary cutter in lighter brush or a 72" finish mower in normal situations. If you let the grass grow thickly for a month you will likely have to go slow with a 72" mower. ....

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banton
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 22 Bainbridge Island, WA
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2008-01-05          149902


Good stuff, guys, thanks!

I will be going back to Kubota today as well as the Kioti/Cub Yanmar dealer as well. Pouring rain here today, but I want to look at these again. The good news is that I should have the sales staff to myself today!

Regarding Kioti, I know that they are a heavier tractor. Is that a concern with a lawn?

Anyone else know of possible financing offers on Kioti?

Regards,

Bill ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-05          149906


Bill,

Weight is one of a lawn's many enemies. Soil compaction is bad for any lawn.

There are a couple of ways to help reduce the effects of the tractor's weight........

1. Make sure you never get into a routine of mowing the lawn in the same direction or path every time. Change your mowing pattern each time you mow. If you go around and around the first time, go back and forth the next. The third time, travel diagonally. This will prevent your tractor from traveling over the same ground repeatedly, reducing the compaction to a certain degree.

2. Use turf tires. Turf tires are much wider than the others, which reduces the number of pounds per square inch. With more tire surface, the weight of your tractor is spread out over a much larger area.

The combination of these two things will do a lot to help prevent your lawn from being torn up or compacted by the tractor.

Of course, I should mention that it is a very bad idea to do any mowing on a finished lawn when in 4-wheel drive. Nothing will tear up a lawn faster than by turning on it with the 4-wheel drive engaged.

It sounds to me as though you're going to have to make some compromises along the way. A bigger tractor might suit you well for certain jobs, but it appears that it may be very detrimental in others. You might want to pick a tractor that falls somewhere in the middle.

This shouldn't be a problem for you. Smaller tractors will do all of the things a bigger tractor will do....plus some. Big tractors don't fit well into small spots, nor do they turn very quickly. For cleaning out barn stalls, a small tractor will easily outperform a larger one.

The nice thing about these smaller tractors is that you can still plow the land, run a tiller, cultivate a crop, or mow even 10 acres......so long as you understand that the implements you choose must be smaller in size, and the time to perform these tasks will take considerably longer.

It's not easy to pick ONE tractor that will perform all of these jobs in an efficient manner. Most farmers have several tractors of different sizes, for just this reason. Guys like me don't have the luxury of keeping several tractors around.

If I were to ask my farmer friends, "If you could have just one tractor, which would it be?", they'd laugh at me. There is no possible way they could operate the farm with only one tractor.

Joel ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2008-01-05          149907


Joel or anyone else: really one question with 2 parts: have you done or do you have any data on tire compaction AG versus Turf vs. R4; and/or empirical data on CUTs and the PSI they exert? What I'm curious about is, say, comparing a 'bota of your size and tire set up, to something like mine, to something in the 35-40 hp range with the same tires.

I read somewhere the Nebraska tests from the early 20th century yielded a lot of data that was cool to find out like steel wheels are much less efficient tractionwise and fuelwise versus rubber tires with the same tread ....

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candoarms
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2008-01-05          149910


Earthwrks,

While I've never taken part in any of the actual testing, I can tell you that there is a huge difference in the amount of pressure per square inch applied to the ground when the tires are switched out.

As a kid, I learned from my grandfather (a carpenter) that the worst thing anyone could ever do to a floor was to wear high heels when walking on it. High heels place a very heavy load on the floor, per square inch. With the heel being less than 1/4 square inch, the weight of even a small woman would apply nearly a ton of pressure per square inch to the floor.....easily denting a sheet of plywood -- destroying a piece of carpet, as well as tile.

The same principle applies to tires. Ag tires, for example, are designed to place the full weight of a tractor in a very small area. With the full weight of the tractor being applied to a very small amount of surface area, the tire treads actually sink into the firmly packed soil, increasing the tractor's traction by a huge amount.

Rubber tires work much better than steel wheels, because the tire flexes, allowing for better contact with the soil. The rubber tire also exerts lateral pressure on the soil....that is.... to the sides of the depression made by the tire.

The lateral pressure being exerted on the sidewall increases traction by an even greater margin. For even better traction in loose soil, it is best to reduce tire pressures by quite a bit, so as to help increase the lateral traction being applied by the flattened sidewalls.

The differences in pressure per square inch applied to the soil, when comparing turf tires and ag tires, is TREMENDOUS.

Agriculture tires will aid in traction in most situations, due to the amount of weight being applied per square inch.

This is not the case, however, when talking about ice, where surface area is the most important factor -- and in mud, where flotation is a huge benefit.

Joel ....

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banton
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 22 Bainbridge Island, WA
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2008-01-05          149921


Guys-

Life just gets more fun!! Drove a Cub/Yanmar today and fell in love.........The dealer says that the new models coming out in the spring will be just as nice, although two of them will be SCUT's. The 27 HP will be the same tractor as the 3200, but will be de-tuned. $1200. less. And 48 month financing starts again in mid-February.

Did not get a chance to see the Kubota today.

I appreciate all the feedback here. To find out what I will be up against on my terrain, the Kioti/Cub dealer will bring both to my property to test drive with implements. That's pretty heads-up in my book!

Regards,

Bill ....

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banton
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2008-01-05          149922


Joel-

Great info! What about the difference between AG and IND tires? Any info? ....

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candoarms
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2008-01-05          149926


Banton,

The Industrial tire has a cleat, or bar, which is about twice (double) the width, and half the depth of the ag tire's tread bar. This translates to about twice the surface area making contact with the pavement when using Industrial tires.

For you and me, this means that the tread bar will not sink into the soil or sod nearly far as the ag tire tread bars would. This will also reduce the tractor's traction in soft soil. However, on ice, it is a huge improvement over the ag tires.

Generally speaking, the Industrial tire is meant to be a compromise between maximum traction offered by the ag tire, and the minimum soil compaction offered by the turf tire. It performs quite well on hard surfaces; moderately well in snow; and from what I've heard, it's pretty lousy in mud.

The wider tread bars on the Industrial tires will outlast either of the others on concrete, asphalt, or any other abrasive surface -- which makes them a perfect fit for skid steer tractors.

Everything a single-tractor man decides to do is a compromise. We have to compromise on weight, size, tires, and even horsepower. However, there are some things we should never compromise on, such as 4-wheel drive. We compromise in enough areas already, without giving up those things that we will ABSOLUTELY NEED, due to the other compromises we make.

If you are forced to compromise on tires, due to issues involving traction or compaction, then it will become necessary to have 4-wheel drive to help offset the loss in traction.....making it all but unnoticeable.

Joel ....

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banton
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2008-01-05          149927


Gotcha on the 4-wheel drive and HST. Now the question is "what are the compromises that I am willing to live with on mowing vs. other chores.

Walked the property again today and believe that traction, in and of itself, will not be an issue.

I think...........

bill ....

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candoarms
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2008-01-06          149929


Banton,

I faced the same situation when I purchased my first tractor. I believe we all faced this situation at one time or another.

Here's a hint...a suggestion. It may or may not help you one bit, but it worked quite well for me.

Down the left side of side of sheet of paper, list all of the things you'll need a big tractor for......in order of importance.

Down the right side, list all of those things that you'll need a small tractor for...again, in order of importance.

Weigh out the two factors, then after making a decision regarding that particular chore, cross off the tractor on either side of the paper.

Do the same with each chore listed, without worrying about what choice you made in the previous category.

When you're all done, look to see which tractor hasn't been crossed off as many times. From there, you may decide to put an entirely different set of tractors on the list, and then start over.

In the end, your biggest factors will be maintenance and service, dependability, warranty, parts availability, manufacturer's reputation, dealer network....and then, in no particular order...... turning radius (barn stall cleaning), storage issues (building and door size), lifting capabilities (loaders for moving square or round bales), and finally power choices in engine size. (Snowblowers...tillers...plows....etc.)

It can be a fun project, and I highly suggest that you seek advice from others. The mistakes made by others will prove to be a huge benefit to you. Use their experiences to help make a decision. They've already spent the time and money correcting their errors......take advantage of the situation.

One such suggestion from me..... "NEVER COMPROMISE ON SIZE just to save a few dollars." The cost of trading up in tractors is far greater, than when buying the right tractor to begin with. Never go smaller than you might think you'll need.

And remember, there is no such thing as having the right tractor all the time. We compromise in certain areas, because we have to. Remember this when you're out working. Don't cuss at the tractor when it's too small for certain jobs. Understand that, and you'll always be happy with your decision.

Joel ....

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banton
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 22 Bainbridge Island, WA
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2008-01-06          149931


Cando-

Great words of advise.......

Without trying to sound like a jerk, money is not the object. I work from home, but am gone for 30-45 days at a time when with my clients. Consequently, my wife, who will be running the barn operation for herself and others with horses, will need to ride this pig. I want to make sure that we get what we need, but also that my wife does not seem overwhelmed.

The day to day chores at the barn will be a snap, as the tractor will easily fit in both the barn and up to the stalls. Gates at each paddock make it easy to muck.

I appreciate your words, and will make a list. Great idea.

Regards,

Bill ....

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kwschumm
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2008-01-06          149932


If your wife will be running it and she needs to change attachments a quick-hitch with compatible implements might be useful. I sure love mine, it's easy to change implements without getting off the seat (as long as the PTO doesn't have to be connected). Regarding tires, what kind of soil do you have? Is it clay that gets slick and sticky when it rains? ....

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candoarms
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2008-01-06          149933


Bill,

Your case is no different than any others, but for possibly the price factor.

With the pricing factor out of the way, the doors are wide open to you.

Have fun making the decision. Shopping for a tractor can be fun. It's like shopping for a new rifle, or pistol. Shopping is more than half the fun.

Your wife would be quite comfortable on most any tractor in the 25-30 horsepower range. The Cub Cadet / Yanmar Ex3200 is one fine machine, as is the new Bobcat CT230.

I went with a Kubota, simply because of their reputation for producing some of the finest and most dependable tractors in the world. I don't mind fixing things, but I don't want to be turning wrenches any more than I have to.

Joel ....

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auerbach
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2008-01-06          149943


You received so many expert replies that I'm hard-pressed to add anything, but I'll try.

What can a tractor do for you? Three things: provide summer shade if you lie under it, raise your neighborhood prestige if you park it out front, and maybe pull out a stuck car.

All other work is done by attachments, and that's what you should think about next. You can buy rear attachments anytime, but the more you buy at once, the better the deal. That means, in turn, you have to find out what each one can do, and what kind of work you will use the rig for. The mower offers the most choices -- size, type, and location (3PH or belly-mount).

The FEL is an exceptionally useful (and the most costly) attachment, but choosing, installing, and testing it is NOT a DYI job but should be left to the dealer. With this, you will much benefit from having 4WD.

Unlike cars, tractor maintenance is simple once you've done it, and is best done by the owner (unless the dealer is across the street). Study the manual, ask what you're not sure about, and include a few years' supply of expendibles (such as filters) in your bottom line.

....

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banton
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2008-01-06          149949


All-

Well, I will have the "tractor as a sun shade" down pretty quickly, but I do take your point.

My main interest with the tractor is a combination of chores/mowing. My original thought when I started this thread was that the PTO hp was most important, but I find now that the implements that I will be using most often will be those that: a)do not need PTO, as they are pull-only, or b)the ones that require PTO require that I make sure that the attachment will work with my hp.

Traction is the one item that will be up in the air until I test-drive a couple on my property. That said, I will definitely by getting HST and 4-wheel drive. From there I need to determine IND or Turf tires, but my conversations with other locals lead me to believe that the somewhat-sandy soils here will still hold up under R4's. I have seen their lawns, and they look fine using those.

You are all a font of information. It is now between a Kubota and a Cub/Yanmar based on weight, personal preferences, and stats. I will let you know how it goes, but can tell you that the new C/Y coming out with lower horsepower is still in the mix, and I won't buy until I can choose between 2 companies that both offer 0% money, which C/Y won't offer again til mid-Feb.

The local C/Y dealer has quoted me $16,200 for the Ex3200 with FEL, which seems a bit high based on what else I have read on TractorHouse. The 2 Kubota's that I have looked at were the L2800 HST and the B3030 HST, both quoted at $15,995. I would presume that those are not the best deals that I can get, but until I am ready to pull the trigger there is no reason to haggle.

What do most of you see thrown in a deal, and at what price?

Regards,

Bill ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-06          149951


Bill,

I have a question for you.

Do you plan on splitting your own wood, for home heating, or even just for evening pleasure? If so, you might want to think about putting a rear remote hydraulic outlet on your tractor.

A rear remote outlet can be used for many things, such as a hydraulic top link, wood splitter, snowblower chute, fence post driver, or even the gauge wheels on any rear mounted implement. You can also use it to raise and lower the bar on a sickle mower.

This isn't a cheap option. Most manufacturers charge upward of 1000 dollars for a single remote outlet. If you think this is an option you might use quite often, it might be worth it to haggle with your dealer on making this option available to you at a reduced price.

The other option you might consider is an upgraded seat. Most manufacturers offer a deluxe seat package, which includes a full suspension feature. The cost various from one maker to the next, but is usually somewhere around 200 dollars. It's a nice upgrade. It changes a tractor from a Ford to a Lincoln.....if you get my drift.

See if your dealer won't meet you halfway on one or more of these options.

Aside from that, I believe you've picked out a couple of very fine tractors.

I would only say that you should also examine the resale value of the tractors you're looking at. Kubota tractors hold their value, without question.....but if you don't believe you'll ever trade the thing off, or sell it, maybe this isn't something you need to consider.

Lastly, if it were up to me (it isn't) I would shy away from the de-tuned C/Y model that's coming out in the Spring. The Ex3200 is the flagship model for Cub Cadet / Yanmar, and it will surely hold its value.

Good luck, and please keep us posted.

Joel
....

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banton
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 22 Bainbridge Island, WA
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2008-01-06          149953


Joel-

The Cub/Yanmar that I drove this weekend had the deluxe seat on it, and my backside and I both appreciated it. I will definitely get one. I had thought about the rear remote, and the 3030 HST had two. I will be getting a post-hole digger, so that is a great add-on idea.

As far as the home, let me proudly annouce that we are doing a zero-energy design home in coordination with WA State U. and the NW Solar Center. They choose one home every year that is designed, developed and built using all green materials and designed by the students and faculty of the archetecture/environmental students and faculty. I have also cut a deal with HGTV to film a 13 part special on the whole thing, from start to finish. We will have no energy bills, but we will also have no wood fireplace; they don't like holes in the house! We start construction in mid-Feb, and are now reviewing plans which will incorporate 42 solar panels, 8 solar hot water panels, geo-thermal hot water and heat, underfloor heating, SIP's for the walls and roof and triple pane windows, all-LED lighting, complete whole-house wireless operation including automatic solar window pillows. Have I bored you yet?

What else would rear remotes be used for? We get virtually no snow here, and what we do get is gone in a few hours.

I see your logic on the smaller Cub/Yanmar. Guess I will stick with what I have found. Any thoughts on the prices that I threw out there?

Regards,

Bill ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2008-01-06          149954


Congrats on the new house, it sounds very interesting. I hope your geothermal works a heck of a lot better than ours. A geothermal heat pump is the single most expensive mistake we've ever made. ....

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banton
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2008-01-06          149956


We have the advantage of the best in the field designing this, but even they suggest a back-up for the geo. We will......

Any thoughts on the quick hitches that I see advertised here and from Rankin? ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-06          149957


Bill,

Congratulations on the new home. I look forward to seeing it on HGTV, in conjunction with my sister's appearance on that channel. (She's a professional artist and does a whole lot of home interior decorating.)

You'll be able to use your rear remote hydraulics for a whole number of things. For example, you could use it to power a hydraulic top link, which is probably the most popular option in compact tractors.

A hydraulic top link allows you to change the front-to-rear pitch of any 3-point mounted implement. After hooking up your box blade, for example, you might notice that it isn't level, from front to rear.

The hydraulic top link makes this adjustment as easy as raising the bucket on the loader.

A hydraulic top link is an absolute necessity when using a tractor mounted cement mixer, as there is no way to empty the mixer without it.

In order to power a hydraulic top link, you'll first have to remove your loader, and then use the loader ports to power the hydraulic top link, unless you opt for the rear remotes. The rear remote outlet is the way to go.

That Kubota B3030, with the rear remotes already installed, sounds like quite a bargain to me. I don't see anything wrong with the prices quoted on either tractor.

As for implements, it's rarely necessary to buy new ones. Used implements are quite common, and sell at reasonable prices. They can be found at most farm auctions, and are often listed for sale on Ebay. Search through the auctions until you find something for sale near you.

The best time to search for used implements is when you don't need one. When you need something right away, you usually won't want to wait for a used item to come up for sale.

Good luck with the new home. I look forward to seeing it on television.

Joel
(Fort Lewis, Washington -- 9th Infantry Division -- 1979-1981 447th Medical Detachment, North Fort) ....

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banton
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 22 Bainbridge Island, WA
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2008-01-06          149958


Joel-

Thanks for the comments. Seems that the rear remote and toplink is a no-brainer.

So your sis is on HGTV? It's a great network. I work with most of the majors, and its nice to work with folks who really care about more than ratings.....

Nice to see that you are in the area. I currently have a home on the water on Bainbridge Island, but the new property is in Port Orchard. I need to be closer to Boeing field for trips, and from Port Orchard its faster going around tacoma and up to Boeing Field. ....

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auerbach
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2008-01-07          149959


You don't have to worry about the rear attachment overloading your tractor. If it's designed for a Category I hitch, it will work. If it's marginally big or small, you can go faster or slower.

As for the mower, the belly is a bit harder to attach/detach, service, and store, and costs a bit more, but it makes the tractor more stable and doesn't add to its length. The flatter the ground, the wider you can go (narrow ones follow irregularities better).

Make sure the FEL has a single control stick.

The closer the dealer, the better. You'll pay a small-car price, but the tractor's design life is five times that of the car. In Japanese and US makes, I've never heard of a lemon tractor. ....

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banton
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Posts: 22 Bainbridge Island, WA
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2008-01-07          149960


Thanks Auerbach

I plan on going with a finish mower behind the tractor. My closest dealer, with the Cub/Yanmar, will be 5 miles. The Kubota-15. I plan on doing my own service work, except for the 50, 100, etc. The rear remote and a top link sound like the way to go.

Hey, Candoarms, let me buy you lunch someday. I'll drive to Tacoma just to pick your brain. I'm here for the next month, and then will be gone on and off for a couple of months.

Regards,

Bill ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-07          149961


Bill,

Please forgive me for misleading you.

I'm no longer living near you. I was stationed at Fort Lewis Washington back in the early 1980s. In fact, I arrived there when Carter was still President! Time passes so quickly.

I was only 18 years old when I was stationed there. It was the only place I've been where I could go deep-sea fishing in the morning, and snow skiing in the mountains in the afternoon.

(Just to give you some idea how long ago that was......Carter was in office and the Iranian Hostage Crisis was in progress.)

Oh well....enough of that.

A hydraulic top link is just one of many optional accessories you might consider. It can be a very handy addition to any tractor, but I don't want you to believe that it's absolutely necessary. You can get by without one, unless you plan on using a 3-point mounted cement mixer.

There are many different quick-hitches on the market. Most of them are non-adjustable. This means that not all of your implements will hook up to it, until you first modify your implements to work with the quick-hitch. For most people, this is far more trouble than it's worth. Unless you have a welder and a fair selection of metal working tools, the standard quick-hitch is probably not worth the money.

There is only one quick-hitch system I really like....... the Delta Hitch System. It's expensive, costing about 1000 dollars. However, for that price you receive two implement mounting plates, plus a tractor mounting plate. You could install a Delta Hitch mounting plate on your two heaviest implements. Most other implements will be easy enough to man-handle into place.

There have been many discussions on this board relating to to the various quick-hitches on the market. Most people will tell you that they're a real pain in the hind quarters. The exception is the Delta Hitch. It's a neat system, and it's the only one I would consider.

I'm not sure when my sister is going to appear on HGTV. She received a letter and several phone calls inviting her to to go LA for 6 weeks, but she's heard nothing since the writers went on strike. I'm not sure if the writer strike had anything to do with this, but I have reason to believe it may have.

I'll keep you posted on the matter.

Joel ....

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kwschumm
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2008-01-07          149963


I've got a JD IMatch, which works a lot like the Land Pride and other quick hitch systems out there. It's great and I'm really glad to have it, but it did take some modification of a few implements to make it work as well as it does. A top and tilt system makes it work a lot better, since you can pretty much drop an implement anywhere and pick it up later. Without top and tilt you'd have to drop and install implements only on level ground and you may still have to muscle them around periodically. ....

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banton
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 22 Bainbridge Island, WA
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2008-01-07          149964


Joel-

The writer's strike is killing all of us. I have a screenwriting partner, and we have 2 in with Paramount. I also represent other screenwriters, so right now its pretty dead. The only stuff that is getting filmed is either in Canada or is reality-based. Thankfully, I also represent well-known rock acts and one actor-if it weren't for them I would not be getting a paycheck right now.

Sorry that you are no longer in the area. Lunch would be a cheap primer for me!!

I leave concrete work to the experts. I know how to work on my cars, and I stick with that, so it sounds as though the toplink may be something I don't need. But the quick hitch has some possibilities.......

Bill ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-07          149966


Bill,

I hope they get that strike settled soon, one way or another. Reality TV is the worst thing ever invented by man. hehehe.

If you ever come through North Dakota, please let me know in advance. I'll buy you a cup of coffee.

By the way, here's a picture of my little machine.

Here's a picture of my Kubota B2100HSB. This picture was taken on the dealer's lot, 70 miles south of here.

Kubota diesel engine. 21 HP
Hydrostatic transmission...2 ranges Hi-Lo.
Rear PTO 540 RPM.
Three-Point Hitch
Mid-Mount PTO 2500 RPM (For powering the Belly Mower and Front-mount Snowblower)
Selectable 2 and 4 wheel drive
Differential Lock Pedal
Bi-Speed Turn engagement lever. (Allows for faster turns without tearing up the grass when mowing. Engages when the front wheels turn more than 30 degrees left or right. When engaged, the front tires rotate 25% faster than the rear tires.)
Independent left and right rear brake pedals.
Hydrostatic power steering
Cruise Control
Parking Brake Lever (located on the steering column cover)
ROPS (Roll Over Protection System)
Grill Guard
Kubota L401 Loader
Kubota Mid Mount 60" Mower Deck
Turf Tires
540 Hours. (purchased used)


Joel ....

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auerbach
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2008-01-07          149983


As we advance to the fine tuning, here's another tip. Your best rear attachment in terms of cost/benefit is likely a scraper blade. On it, you can change the angle (eg left side more forward or aft) by re-setting the pin on the blade housing, and you can change the height with the 3pt control.

But to change the height angle (eg left side higher or lower) you have to dismount and wrench around one of the side links on your hitch. If you'll be doing any snow pushing or gravel grading, have the dealer replace one of the side arms with one whose length is crank-adjustable from the driver's seat. That way, you can change the relative height of either blade side as you work. For crowning a lane or building up snow banks you'll thank me to have that control. I think they cost around $1-200. I can't think of their proper name.

....

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banton
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 22 Bainbridge Island, WA
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2008-01-07          149998


That is a good looking workhorse that you have there, Candoarms. How long have you had it?

The last time I was in ND was on location about 10 years ago-nice people you have up there. If I ever come by, I'll take you up on the coffee, but I'll buy. You have been a great source of info and I really appreciate it.

Auerbach-Thanks for the tip on the crank adjustment idea. Sounds like a good idea.

I do not plan to use a MMM, but some type of finishing mower. Thoughts?

Regards,

Bill ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-07          150011


Bill,

I'm on my third tractor. The first one (Ford 8N) was practically given to me. It was hard to pass up on the deal.....but it wasn't really what I needed. I had it for three years.

The second tractor was a real workhorse. (Chinese Rhino) I worked that thing HARD, pulling scrap metal and other trash out when I bought this piece of land. My land was previously owned by a guy who was basically a collector of trash and scrap metal. (Junk man) I got the place cheap, knowing full well that a lot of sweat and labor would be needed to make it useful to me. The Rhino was heavy as a tank, and had ag tires on it. It was a puller.......and I put it to work. The Rhino was sold about two years ago. The guy who bought it is very happy with it, because he's using it for many of the same chores.

Both of my previous tractors had straight gear transmissions. I don't believe I'll ever own another one without a hydro transmission.

The Ford 8N had two-wheel drive. The Rhino had front wheel assist. The Rhino was quite an improvement over the 8N.

I'm nearly done cleaning up the messes now. The lawn is planted and the trees have been trimmed up. It was time to have a tractor designed to be used for lawn and garden work.

The Kubota has been here for about a year. It's the best tractor I've ever owned....by far. It replaced two tractors I had, as I no longer own a riding lawn mower either. I purchased my Kubota with the goal of using it primarily as a mowing machine, and it has performed far better than I anticipated.

I look forward to getting on it again this coming Spring. The place is really shaping up, and the garden will be bigger than ever before. The hard work is all but done, freeing up the little Kubota for light duty chores. I go easy on it, because I plan on having this tractor for at least another couple of years.

We haven't yet decided what we'll replace it with, but I believe we'll eventually purchase a zero-turn mower. This will allow me the freedom to purchase a tractor that will be used mostly for farm applications, such a plowing, tilling, and cultivating.....which means ag tires. (I'm working on purchasing another 11 acres of land.)

I'm leaning toward the Cub Cadet Yanmar Ex3200, or possibly the new Bobcat CT230. However, another Kubota is not out of the question. I do like my Kubota....A LOT!

If I get my hands on the 11 acres next to me, I may be shopping for a tractor too big to be considered a Compact Utility Tractor.......maybe somewhere in the 50 horsepower range.

Joel ....

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banton
Join Date: Jan 2008
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2008-01-07          150012


Interesting to hear how others use their rigs. I would have thought that a larger tractor than the Rhino would be needed to move all that scrap. Seems that I may be underestimating these smaller CUT's.

Based on what you had said on an earlier post, I Googled the Bobcat. Isn't it basically a Kioti with Bobcat FEL and BH?

Regards,

Bill ....

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candoarms
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2008-01-07          150013


Bill,

Don't underestimate the power and capabilities of these little tractors. They never cease to amaze me...even after all these years.

You'll be surprised what these little tractors are able to do......but never go smaller than you think you can get by with. There are times when a bigger tractor is needed to perform certain chores. It's never a good idea to go any smaller than absolutely necessary.

Bobcat was recently sold to Doosan Infracore, for $4.9 Billion U.S. dollars. Doosan is a Korean based firm. Daedong makes the Kioti line. (Two different companies, I believe. Both Korean, however.)

Bobcat has a valuable name, with a whole lot of experience in the tractor market.....especially with skid steer tractors. Bobcat also has an extensive dealer network here in the U.S. The marriage of these two companies opens the door for Bobcat to enter the Compact Tractor market.......or the other way around.

Japanese tractors, such as Yanmar and Kubota, still lead the world in compact tractor sales. (Many John Deere CUTS were produced by Yanmar) Korea is now a close second. China is still a distant third, or forth. South Korea is trying to break into Japan's market share in the U.S., and they're doing a good job of things.

It should be no surprise that Bobcat tractors look a whole like the Kioti tractors. Both come from South Korea, though from two entirely different companies.

Joel ....

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DK35vince
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2008-01-07          150014


Quote:
Originally Posted by banton | view 150012
Isn't it basically a Kioti with Bobcat FEL

Yes.
The current line of Bobcat compact tractor are being built by Kioti (Daedong).
The Bobcat CT 120, CT 225 and CT 230 are the same machines as the Kioti CK 20, 25 and 30. The only differances are color and Bobcat uses a differant loader.
....

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candoarms
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2008-01-07          150016


DK35vince,

Thank you, Sir. I was not aware of this.

I assume that Bobcat's line of CUT tractors will soon be replaced by Doosan equipment....correct?

Joel ....

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DK35vince
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2008-01-07          150017


Joel,
I really don't know what Bobcat plans for the future.
I only know what they are currently using as far as compact tractors. ....

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auerbach
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2008-01-07          150023


Addressing your mower query, Banton.

I have a MMM because of the pluses I mentioned and because my use pattern permits it. (I carry the MMM all summer, and the rear blade or blower all winter. At the twice-yearly changeover I'll have a month or two to mount and use other rear attachments, such as wood chipper, tree spade, tiller, hole auger. Of course, the FEL serves all the time.)

But for you, I'd suggest a rear mower. If you'll be cutting rough stuff, get a brush-hog type, if grass, a finish one. If level ground get a 6', otherwise a 5'. If later you prefer a MMM, it will be easy to trade up your rear one.

You might also pick up a 2000w inverter and ask the dealer to hard-wire it, during the pre-delivery servicing. You can them plug in chain saws, leaf blowers, etc. ....

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banton
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2008-01-07          150026


Inverter? Que es el inverter? Enlighten me, please............ ....

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candoarms
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2008-01-07          150028


Bill,

An inverter is a electronic device which converts direct current, (DC power) to Alternating Current (AC power).

It can convert the 12 volt direct current used in your tractor, to 120 volt alternating current used in your home.

The bigger (more wattage) the inverter, the better. With this device you'll be able to power a drill out in your pasture for installing gates, for example -- or an electric chainsaw out in your trees. It can also be used for temporary lighting or heat, when the power is out.

I don't yet own an inverter, but I sure would like to have one.

See the link below. (available in many sizes)

Joel ....


Link:   Northern Tool 2500 Watt Inverter

 
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auerbach
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2008-01-09          150078


To add to Joel's accurate info, they range from $20, 200w cigar-lighter plug-ins to charge your cell-phone in the car to industrial monsters. My 2000w (that's peak or starting power; on continuous it's 1200w) will run up to about an 8-amp appliance (small chain saw, hedge trimmer, air compressor, leaf blower, whatever); it's the size of a shoebox.

The dealer's shop can mount it and connect it to the battery. Then make rain-cover for it; you don't want water getting in even if it's "off." I made mine from plywood.

Another suggestion is to find a toolbox that will fit somewhere, and get the dealer to mount it. ....

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