Go BottomYanmar KE-4 aftermarket ROPS
 | YanmarKE4Fan
Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 10 Nacogdoches, TX 
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2007-07-10 143577
Hello all:
I've been doing research to discover if any of the John Deere sub compact tractors (made by Yanmar) are dimensionally similar to my Yanmar KE-4 (grey market). I have pinpointed the JD 4010 or 4110 as being similar in many respects.
My question: my Yanmar KE-4 has no ROPS, and I'd like to fit one. I'd prefer a foldable ROPS, too.
I was wondering if any of you gents who have one of these John Deere models 4010 or 4110 (4115) could help me out by measuring the various mounting dimensions on your ROPS ?
The local JD dealer will order me a foldable ROPS, but it's a special order and if it has fitment problems on my Yanmar, it's not returnable.
I'm not complaining about the $ 750 price, which seems fair.
I'm just worried about wasting that money on this special order JD ROPS, which may not fit my Yanmar....
I guess there is always the seatbelt issue to figure out too.
I'd run down to the JD dealer but they don't stock these models anymore, so I haven't many options....
I really appreciate your help on this. I'm a careful operator, but a ROPS is indespensible for safety.
Best Regards,
David B.
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 | Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma 
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2007-07-10 143581
I can't help you on the dimensions but have you given any thought to having one fabricated? I'd think it would be just as good, a guaranteed fit and a lot cheaper. ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada 
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2007-07-10 143584
I have a 4115.... what measurements do you need? ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-07-10 143587
Without answering for Yanmar, but if it helps speed the process any.....
The most critical dimensions/specifications will be;
- mounting boss (pad it sits on), probably 2 u-bolts per side, spread between them, and width of them, plus is it flat to the ground or angled.
- width & height, and where they're taken from, inside, outside or centerline.
Beyond that, if it's close, it might be the easiest to take it, and get it customized, or an adaptor made to make it work. This will of course void any liability that the manufacturer had.
Best of luck. ....
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 | JasonR
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 142 Northern Indiana
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2007-07-10 143588
I'm pulling this out of an email, as I sold my fixed (JD 4110) ROPS on ebay when I conveted to the foldable for the backhoe:
The width at the base is about 19.25 inches. The spreader plate that goes there (not included in this aution) is attached by 2 bolts on each side - they are about 3.125 inches apart, center-center.
There are six holes on each side of the ROPS. Some are for bolting it down, and others are to allow for existing bolt heads on the tractor. The inside set of holes are about 25.125 inches apart (center to center) and the outside to outside set of holes are about 29.5 inches center to center. These 6 holes are 2 sets of 3 - with the three going in the direction of the tractor. These holes are 2 inches apart, center to center.
If you need any more dimensions, I'm sure I (or someone else) can help you out.
Jason ....
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 | earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-07-10 143589
IMHO, depends where you live I realize, but in this age of lawsuits no self-respecting fabricator would even dream of making a ROPS. Reason? Liability. ROPS are suppose to be certified and that just ain't gonna happen with a mom-and-pop fabricator. My buddy is a major fabricator and I asked him to make me one for my old Fordson and he politely declined.
Another friend built a small fold down gate for another company's landscape trailer. He wasn't insured for "manufacturing". The trailer came off the wrong-sized hitch ball in traffic and killed a woman. The trailer seller, my buddy, and the landscaper each were given $900,000 judgements. ....
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| Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2007-07-11 143600
I agree with what you're saying EW. The thing is if you put another model ROPS, say JD 4115, on the Yanmar KE-4, someone would be in the same boat. ROPS are engineered for a specific model. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-07-11 143601
Unfortunately a lot of small business owners just don't know how to play the game.
When I had my fabricating business one of my steady customers was a golf equipment supply house. They came to me to ask if I could build ball cages for golf cars and tractors used on active courses and driving ranges, I said "no, but I can build you vandalism protection cages (wink, wink)". They had plans drawn up showing all the necessary dimensions, and titled "Vandalism / Unauthorized Use Deterent Structures" and containing a little note at the bottom by the Engineer who drew them that said "Not to be used for, or depended on for structural strength".
Several years afterwards a young man operating a machine equipped with one of these was (slightly) injured by a ball in the face which broke his nose & cheek bone and his parents sued just about everybody they could think of sueing.
After producing the drawings that were clearly labelled as to what they were, and containing a disclaimer, the Engineer and I were dropped from the lawsuit. Last I heard the employer picked up 50% of the kids medial bills since the cage was compromised by numerous prior hits and not fixed, and his parents sucked up their own (huge) legal fees for being so aggressive in the first place, since they filed a suit without speaking to anyone first, the employers insurance company flat out denied the claim (which would have paid for ALL of his medial expenses) because they were concerened about total liability.
I was told all in all it cost the parents over $100k.
Best of luck. ....
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 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-07-11 143607
Murf, very valid points. That is why so often the honest smaller company gets killed where the bigger one makes money. Sadly many good products have been lost due to such. ....
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 | candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota 
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2007-07-11 143609
Sometimes I wonder if we wouldn't be better off using our God-given fists to resolve our disputes -- rather than this "more civilized" form of litigation.
Of course, I choose to live in one of the least populated places in the U.S., for just this reason. Civilization rubs me the wrong way.
I can't think of a single reason to ever live with 100 miles of any major city.
If your tractor was imported without a ROPS installed, then you may be forced to make one entirely on your own. Civilization (which includes lawyers) is forcing us back in time, when every man was forced to build everything he needed in his own shop.
I firmly believe that high trees and long ropes are not utilized to their fullest extent in this country any longer.
OK....There's my rant for today.
Joel ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-07-11 143613
cando... yep. ....
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| YanmarKE4Fan
Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 10 Nacogdoches, TX
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2007-07-12 143636
Hi y'all:
Thanks for the replies - all of them. I will check those measurements you provided - thanks for that ! Yanmar made all the small JD diesel compacts, so I figure one of the ROPS just may fit My KE 4 Yanmar, too.
On the liability front, very interesting discussion.
I've spent many hours ranting, pondering this topic. (I almost went to Law school, btw)
Too many lawyers, yes indeed. Maybe even more to the point, too much evil in too many hearts. Too many folks looking to profit making a small issue into a larger one.
We tend to thrash about, looking for someone, anyone to blame, when in many cases of "accident" it's really an Act of God, which I think might mean: "not attributable to any intentional human agency or act....."
I think Americans, by and large, have lost the comfort of trusting in the Sovereigny of God (see Job in the OT).
Knowing this fact such makes me much more likely to accept the daily problems & daily blessings of life in stride.
Failing to know such makes me likely to look around to blame someone, anyone (other than myself...) for the hard issues / occurances in life.
Entre to the Lawyers & Suit-sayers....separating neighbor from neighbor, brother from brother.
But it's clear that you guys have much of this under consideration. I appreciate your sound advice.
I'm not against a self-fabbed item, but I'm not a good welder.....
The KE 140/160 (Euro / UK version of my unit) shows the item with a foldable ROPS, and I can see the mounting holes on my tractor, so I know one exists for it, right ?
Can't post links ! I tried.
OK the Yanmar forums here list a Euro / UK Yanmar KE 140 in action, with a ROPS.
British KE tractor in action (couldn't post...)
I'll check those measurements.
Many thanks,
David B. ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-07-12 143642
Yanmar, two items: I appreciate your points in your last post very much and want to shout a heart felt AMEN and PREACH it.
Now to the ROPS; do as Murf pointed out in sorts: make a basic drawing of what you want with specs as to size and spacing. Don't tell what is is far and there are some good SMALL welding and machine shops who will be glad to make it.
....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-07-12 143644
It's not so much of "who to blame", nor is it a "sovereignty of God issue" (err? don't see the connection there, bud). Annnnywhoo...if a product is made for a particular purpose--specifically and especially a ROPS, then it better hold up if my CUT overturns. If not there will be hell to pay. And so goes having a pseudo-ROPS fabbed locally. The ONLY way you will know if it passes muster is to perform a destructive test. And that only applies if you're using it for yourself---not the kids, not the neighbor, not anyone else. I fabricate nearly all of my attachments for my biz. I however would never sell them to anyone for any purpose. Case in point: A few years ago I bought a 40' manlift from a neighbor who was also a contractor. He told me up front that it was not eligible to be certified for use (suppose to be tested and certified every year). On the bill of sale he wrote "sold for parts" which mitigated any potential liability down the road. So that only lets me use for and by myself in situations or conditions that OSHA has no jurisdiction in/on (I'm a sole proprietor so I fall into the same category as a "farmer" versus an "employee" if I were incorporated) ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-07-12 143645
EW, I think who to blame is a lot of the problem.
A few years ago a couple fell asleep on a local Beach. Right in a truck path across the dunes with ruts to prove it, on the ocean side. They awoke as a pickup was above them on the way to the beach. No doubt scared them. They sued for the mental anguish as it was the drivers fault they fell asleep in a road where they could not be seen, even though the pickup did not touch or harm them in any physical manner. In that case the free loaders lost. The honest legal people won. It only cost them sleepless nights and a few thousand dollars. Now who's to blame?
There was a MF dealership here a few years ago. One of the owners shot either one or both of two guys breaking into his business. He lost his business in the law suit brought by the crooks. There was no doubt they were breaking in and no doubt he was only trying to protect his property.
but...I'm just saying...it's that kind of people and that kind of lawyer. If people with common sense do not serve on juries the court room will brankrupt honest people to reward those who don't take responibility for their actions.
....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-07-13 143658
Kenneth, I honestly believe you were slightly incorrect in that statement you made "Now who's to blame?".....
I believe it is more like "Who can we blame who has MONEY or INSURANCE?".
One of my businesses a friend & I jointly own (I'm mostly a silent partner) produces a product that could potentially put us on the wrong side of a lawsuit or three. The company which owns the rights, and receives all the profits, is domiciled in a sunny warm Caribbean country as something called an "International Business Company" (or IBC). The laws of that country contain a couple of interesting twists, 1) the IBC cannot do business in the 'home' country, only abroad, 2) the domestic courts do not allow a 'foreign cause of action' to be tried against an IBC.
So, basically the effect is the comapny cannot be sued in the US, because it doesn't exiust or do any business there, and the laws of the country it does exist in say it can't be sued there either since any 'cause of action' would be in the US or elsewhere.
Of course the fact that that country doesn't charge any corporate income tax doesn't hurt either. ;)
Best of luck. ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-07-13 143664
I believe there are many who are to blame for the lawsuits:
companies that build sorry products, companies who lie about their products quality or such, lawyers who don't care about the truth only what they make, people who don't care about the truth only what they can get, juries who are willing to award just to go home. The list is probably longer. ....
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| candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-07-13 143665
KThompson,
The list is considerably longer, for you didn't mention those corrupted judges, who should throw out the outrageous complaints they hear.
Why so many of these silly lawsuits end up being heard in court is beyond my ability to comprehend.
If I were to be a judge, I'm sure I'd go home each night with a belly ache, from laughing so hard at those people who aren't smart enough to prevent injury to themselves........such as the lady who burned herself with hot coffee, from McDonald's. GEEEEZZZZZZZ.
The judge who allowed that case to go before a jury........well, he should have been impeached........or something worse.
And then there was the recent case of the judge who sued the dry cleaner for millions of dollars, for losing his favorite pair of pants. The pants were later found and returned, but the judge pressed forward with the lawsuit anyway.
I hear that the case was dismissed by another judge......and I would like to shake that judge's hand, for he's one of the very few good guys who sit at the bench.
Generally speaking, we need a complete house-cleaning when it comes to our government officials. Only one man deserves to be reelected, and that's the honorable RON PAUL, from Texas.......my hero.
Joel ....
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| Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2007-07-13 143669
Something to think about here. Anytime you buy something, the price of insurance is included into that price. Whether it's a can of beans, pair of roller skates, guns or a bulldozer. Every time someone wins a goofy (I say goofy instead of frivolous is because it is) lawsuit, every one pays. There are times that it is down right negligent and that's when it should be pressed...stopped...never to happen again. More time than not, it's plain greed. Whose to blame but lawyers. Not all but you know the ones. They even run ads encouraging lawsuits.
In the end the only real winners are the lawyer and the poor pathetic goofy ass woman that spilled hot coffee on herself because she was too dumb to know any better. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-07-14 143697
Billy, that's not quite a true statement as far as all items having insurance. I carry $2.3 million in liability. There have been plenty of times I have done work for people that I knew I was not insured for---I'm honest and forthright---so I tell people upfront that I'm not insured for a particular job (tree cutting for example). I tell them if anything happens they're responsible. However, I know several other business owners who are not insured at all. They tell me that if they are sued the lawyers won't get anything because they don't own anything like a home, etc. Sad but true. ....
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| YanmarKE4Fan
Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 10 Nacogdoches, TX
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2007-07-16 143737
Wow, great discussion. How did we get here ?
Obviously, a nerve was touched ! I'm not surprised to see you guys are loaded with good sense. (I won't call it 'common' because it's rarer all the time....)
On the ROPS, I'll take some pics showing exisiting hole spacing, etc. I think due to the fact that Yanmar makes the JD compact tractors and the already mentioned similarities of this KE 4 with the JD 4010 and 4110, there's a chance the JD rops will fit properly. Just wish it wern't a special order so I'd risk the $ 750 just to test it !
If I'm overlooking an easier way of finding this out, feel free to let fly the suggestions.
On my earlier comments, I guess I was saying, in a general sense, that many of our fellow Americans have lost their 'Ethical foundation', hence the silly lawsuits & high insurance rates & the resultant 'trickle down' effects like high product cost, lack of availability due to liability concerns.
OK, at the risk of igniting a firestorm, here is my view of WHY this is so, in a nutshell:
Because America USED to have a Christian ehtical & moral foundation from which "most" folks operated.
Most folks knew that the 10 Commandments were just that, not merely the 10 Helpful Suggestions.
'Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you..." was the only way to act towards neighbors, friends & of course family.
(plus the greatest Commandment, to Love the LORD your God, with all your heart, soul, mind & strength, as a pre-requisite to that....)
With that as a basis, do we even need to ask if there were frivolous lawsuits, eggreggious (sp) jury awards (McDonalds Hot Coffee judgement, etc) or criminals suing their victims ?
Of course not.
And my point of the 'Sovereignty of God' as being a comfort, is that if one grasps that concept as taught by Scripture, we tend to stop using the word 'Accident' as commonly used......and we stop trying to assign blame willy-nilly to whomever and whatever we THINK is to blame for our circumstances.
Jesus parable of the sparrow not falling to the ground without God the Father knowing of it, and comparing Our worth to that of many sparrows - and therefore God's ultimate concern with us fallen men - shows his love, protection & providing for our needs.
The word that used to be in our common American vocabulary for that is 'Providence' - 'the all wise governing of His Creation by God, in creating, guiding & sustaining it, to the good of his creatures and the glory of Himself'.....(some part of that is my paraphrase, part is from Noah Websters Orignial 1828 American Dictionary).
And I don't want to sound hopeless. God's plan hasn't failed - our nation is suffering the ill effects of a (temporary) departure from Truth......
Thanks for your help on this, and this stimulating discussion !
David B.
....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-07-16 143738
David, there is a short answer to your question about ensuring a fit without spending $750 to do so.
Find someone with a John Deere 4010, 4110 or 4115, a dealer with a trade-in model in inventory maybe, who will let you unbolt their ROPS and see if it fits your machine.
In fact, if it's a JD dealer, you may even be able to talk them into it by letting you go home with the used one and paying them for the new one to go on their machine.
Best of luck. ....
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