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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4285 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2006-02-21          124901


I have a choice of crushed rock or a mix or crushed rock and clay called "base" to use for my driveway and ramp up to garage. What would be the best to go with? Both are the same cost at $5 a ton. I am leaning towards the crushed rock as it allows water to drain down through it whereas the crushed rock/clay base mix will pack down and not allow water to drain through it but wash off of it. Both have some advantages and disadvantages. The clay mix I like that it will pack down hard but I am concerned about it becoming muddy and soft in the event of a large amount of rain or snow. Any ideas, comments, or suggestions very welcome.



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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2006-02-21          124904


I like the rock clay mix but it'll be nasty until it gets packed down good.

There's another mix that would be good. I can't remember what the guy called it now but it's a rock sand mix. It'll stay where you put it and it's great for potholes. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2006-02-21          124908


Chief; My best results seem to be using 2" crushed rock for about 2/3 if the total height needed then the last 1/3 one inch washed crushed rock. the big rock gives about the best support base then the one inch washed rock doesn't track out like crussher run with the lime in it does. I've never used a crushed rock/clay mix. Unless this is a diffrent type of clay than I'm used to the clay I've used for fill under a drive seemed not to pack very well and got real slimy when wet. Might be good to ask around the neighborhood what others have done with similar topsoil and subsoil types. Best of luck. Frank. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7155 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2006-02-21          124909


If it's the same price, no question, leave the clay out of the recipe.

There's a reason the call it "base" material. It is great buried, but expose it to water, and it will suck it up like a sponge.

If you want to make a nice top coat leave it slightly lower than finished grade and add some fine crushed limestone on top.

Billy, there are two that fit your description. They are "Pit Run" and "Crusher Run" the differnce being the Pit Run is just the way they dig it out, stones are round, and it is usually a little cheaper, not so much handling involved, Crusher Run is put through a primary crusher to reduce the rock down to smaller, more jagged pieces. Crusher Run is better near surface since the sharp edges tend to lock together better. Round stones only stay packed when they are buried, on or near surface they tend to act like ball bearings.

Best of luck. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2006-02-21          124913


The clay they use around here to build dirt roads is red clay. That's all I've ever heard it called but I'm sure it has a technical name. It's a clay gravel mix but mostly clay and messy as heck when first put down and after a rain until it gets packed down. This stuff sits up hard as pavement and well enough to support 40+ ton log trucks, day after day.

Murf, the stuff I'm talking about has 1 and 2" flat river rock mixed with river sand. Once it's down it holds it's place. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7155 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2006-02-21          124915


Billy, that's Pit Run, it's just your rocks are flat, ours are round.

Best of luck. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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dkheckmanl
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 134 Middleton, ID
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2006-02-21          124936


I think the crushed rock is the route to go. I agree with Frank in using 2" crushed in the bottom 2/3 and then 3/4" or 1" in the top 1/3. The only draw back to the washed rock is that it well move on you with sort of like marbles unless it has some fines to help bind it together. Too many fines though especially clay material will seal it off and as you mentioned water will not drain. You might ask your supplier where they have put down each type so maybe you could look at and see what it looks like when it is dry and when it rains on it.

Early in my highway career I was involved with the regraveling of many miles of county roads in Montana for the Air Force. These were farm to market roads but were also access roads to the Minute Man Missile silos and control centers. The primary users were the local farmers and ranchers with grain trucks and horse trailers and of course the Air Force. You talk about trying to come up with a gravel road that would hold up under all conditions. About 80% of the time there was either complaints about the gravel raveling from not enough fines or bing muddy when it rained from too many fines. Most of the bitching was from the farmers and ranchers seldom from the Air Force. On day I was out on the road and was talking to a rancher who happened to be a County Commissioner. He told me "don't me too concerned with all the bitching about the roads. IF we ranchers and farmers didn't have something to bitch about we wouldn't be happy". From my experience I concluded there is no such thing as a gravel road that pleases everybody. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1539 Moravia, NY
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2006-02-22          124938


I'd opt for the mix as long as it does not have more than 13-15% -200.

I do not know what other parts of the country call the same things "clay". Clay is usually refered to as any -200 material. If the sieve anayalisis has a broad range of material in it from -2" or 1.5" down to -200 and the -200 is not more than 10-14% I would get that.

Our state specs call for less than 10% -200 and that material usually is around 6% and when used on dirt roads it will come apart. Not enough fines to hold it together.

The towns here are using a blend around 12% -200 it makes an awesome road surface.

Biggest problem is overworking it and seperating the materials. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4285 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2006-02-22          124942


I guess I should have asked this question a lot sooner. My neighbor showed up with the dump truck and off we went to the rock quarry. I ended up going with the crushed limestone rock/clay mix. We spread about 20 tons and are going to let it set for a few weeks and then start packing it down good with the tractor and my truck. We will then spread a top layer of crusher run on the top. I'll post how it all turns out as we go along. Thanks for the replies guys! I appreciate your help! ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2006-02-22          124986


Here in Wisconsin they call it "Road Base" when it has the binder in it, usually clay. This is what my 1/2 mile long driveway is made from. After the first rains go through it the clay sinks in leaving a locking layer of rock on the surface. In general it works pretty well if it has enough drainage. If it collects water (low spot ect.) it turns into mush and is a mess. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4285 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2006-02-24          125056


Just wanted to post some feedback on how the clay mix is working. It rained on the spread out mix for 2 days and I have a tamping plate and will be tamping it down tomorrow. A lot of the clay washed off the top and the gravel is showing now so I think it is going to be looking nice with time. A few areas I have already tried tamping down seem to be packing down really hard and I think will make a great temporary driveway ramp into the garages until I have a cement drive poured.

....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2006-02-26          125198


I just put down a road gravel infront of my garage. Seems to be the ticket for the money. On the path to the house, I am topping it with washed stone this summer, tracking in the smaller particles is a pain with the pit run that is there now.
The washed stone is expensive and does not lock together as good as something with jagged edges (IMO). I will be getting about 100 yards of road gravel this summer also. My long drive is still pit run and has settled for a long time now LOL. Its time to improve the driveway, raise up its level a bit and put down something that will last better. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2006-02-26          125200


Just a sanity check here. Our gravel driveway is about 200 feet long. It is in good shape with no potholes or drainage problems but the top layer of gravel is pretty much gone. The original gravel looked to be pretty smooth stones. I was planning on putting a new top layer down this spring. It sounds like the crusher run is the way to go. Is that how it's commonly referred to? What do I order, 1" and smaller crusher run? Is 1" too small? ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4285 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2006-02-26          125202


Ken, I am REAL happy with how the crushed rock/clay mix has worked. It packed down real hard and does not wash now that it has dried. My neighbor has been using it for the driveway to his horse barn and it holds up well there too. We have driven his Ford F-700 dump truck loaded with 9 tons of gravel mix on it and it holds up very well. It does not continue to spread out like the crusher run does. If you can get this in rock/clay mix in your area; I would strongly recommend it. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2006-02-26          125203


Thanks, Randy. How do you think it would hold up with 50 inches of rain a year? ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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dkheckmanl
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 134 Middleton, ID
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2006-02-26          125207


Ken, you might take a look at Harvey's 2-22 post on this subject. He pretty much covered what you are looking for except I would go for 1 inch to 11/2 inch maximum. Just make sure it is uniformly graded which means it has been crushed so it has different size rock from the maximum down to the fines. As Harvey mentioned, the fines or the binder material is usually a clay material that passes the 200 sieve (smallest sieve that is usually used). You need about 10% to bind it but not much more or it will be crappy when it rains. In your part of country the more durable rock is crushed out of the river bars (if you can find it close by)rather rock quarries because a lot of the rock in the Coast range is marine basalt which will break down when exposed to water. I know all about your rain since I lived outside of Vancouver for 30+ years. I'd still be there if it wasn't for all those cloudy days from Nov. to April. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4285 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2006-02-27          125216


Ken, I was thinking the same thing about rain before I put it down. After we spread it out and it set up and dried; it rained on it for nearly 3 days and all that washed was just the clay residue on the stone in the mix. I wish I had used this mix on my driveway at my previous house. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2006-02-27          125239


Thanks, guys. Harvey's post confused me a bit. By -200 did he mean 2 inch minus (two inch and smaller)? I'll call around and see what's available. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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dkheckmanl
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 134 Middleton, ID
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2006-02-27          125252


-200 material means all the material that will pass through a no. 200 sieve. A no. 200 sieve means there are 200 openings per square inch. Some people refer to it as the P200 material with the P standing for passing through a 200 sieve. Clay in a dry state and puliverized will pass through the 200 screen. In comparison sand is material that passes though a no. 10 sieve (10 openings per sq inch) but will not pass through the 200 sieve). Part of -200 mateial comes from clay that is stuck to the larger rock when it is fed in to the crusher. Sometimes it is additional clayey material fed in with the rock. It can be a problem getting it added in if it is too wet (clay balls).

When calling around just ask if their driveway material has any minus 200 material for binding the material together so it will set up and not be just loose rock. Again you do not want more than about 10% or it will be muddy when it gets wet.

Usually most driveway surface rock is 1 inch minus or 3/4 inch minus. 1 inch minus means every thing will pass 1 inch by 1 inch sieve. 3/4 inch minus means all the rock will pass a 3/4 inch by 3/4inch sieve. It also should be uniformly graded which means it has different sizes from the larger down to smaller and a little bit of the P200 to bind or cement it together. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2006-02-27          125255


Thanks much for the detailed information, that clears up a lot of confusion. I'll still sound like an idiot when ordering but at least now I know what the terminology means. ....

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Crushed rock or crushed rock clay mix for driveway and ramp to garage

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1539 Moravia, NY
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2006-02-27          125257


dk... EXCELLENT description of terms. I work with lab rats (Guys that do this for a living) and just barely can keep out of the way of technical termonology overload.

Our town road guys love the -200 up around 12-14% and state won't use anything near the 10%. But then again traffic loads dictate usage.

I like to see the private drives a little higher with the -200 on top with well drained stone under. The tight top keeps moisture out if drive is sloped or crowned like they should be. ....

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