Go Bottom2005 JD4010 starting problem
 | jweiland
Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6 Sabin, MN 
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2005-09-08 116082
Hello,
I'm pretty happy with my recent JD4010 purchase except for an issue with the starting. The engine started fine shortly after purchase, but began to decline within weeks of having it home. The unit now has about 13 hr on it and I need to let the starter turn for about 7 - 10 sec. before it thinks about firing. Once it fires, it coughs white smoke for 15 - 30 sec. and finally smoothes out. Note that I am following the instructions of turning the key to the first "stop" position until hearing the little "click" inside before turning the key all the way to engage the starter. I used some diesel additive as recommended and am using recommended grade diesel in the engine.
I finally called the dealership and a tech there said that there is a problem with the glow plugs in these units, in that the first stop position on the ignition may(?) not warm the plugs: His 'workaround' was to put the transmission shifter into gear, turn the key all the way to start....hold this for 5 sec, then push the shifter to neutral which would let the starter spin. This actually works very well......which leaves me wondering why one has to do this when it is no where in the manual? Is this a defect in the design of the glow plug circuitry? Would this cause circuit or other problems down the road? It would be nice to take care of the issue while it is still under warrantee.
Thanks for any help....
-John
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon 
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2005-09-08 116086
Sounds to me like the tech's advice has isolated the problem. Now the dealer needs to fix it. If they won't, ask them to send you a written directive from JD that indicates their workaround is the approved and recommended fix. If they can't then ask to speak directly to the JD factory rep about it. ....
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 | JDFANATIC
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 119 Southington, CT
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2005-09-08 116087
The "cold weather" starting proceedure isn't in the 2210 manuals either. On my tractor doing what you said with the key doesn't activate the glow plug either. I have to either put it in gear or pull out the PTO switch and then turn the key all the way on. My dealer told me I could hold this from 1 to 20 seconds, depending on how cold the temperature was.
Cheers
JDFANATIC ....
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-09-08 116090
In my opinion, no way you should be needing glow plugs this time of year. Almost sounds to me like there is a small check valve leak in the fuel system and the fuel prime to the injection pump is leaking down. That or a very small amount of air is leaking into the system (pretty unlikely as I would think you would have found evidence of a fuel leak). ....
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| JDFANATIC
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 119 Southington, CT
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2005-09-08 116091
Well,
If I don't use this proceedure, with the exception of 95 degree days, I will be cranking for many seconds. Activating what my dealer calls "cold weather" proceedures, reduces this to a click of the starter.
Cheers
JDFANATIC
JD2210 ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-09-08 116093
I will review the manual on these machines. On my 4410, the their are no glow plugs and the system used an intake heater grid which is activated by turning the key to the on position and then pushing the key in. Sounds like your 4010 and 2210 is different. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-09-08 116094
jweiland said it started just fine when he first got it and that it has gone downhill since. Sounds like somethings not right to me. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-09-08 116095
It appears that the glow plugs are incorporated into a glow plug timer relay that is activated with the ignition switch. I would think if they must be manaully activated then there is a possibility that the timer relay is not funcitoning or functioning properly.
Below is a cut and paste from the manual for engine start. Definitely is a bit different than mine.
1. Open the fuel shut-off valve.
2. Lock the park brake.
3. Move the 2-speed range lever (A) to the N position.
4. Push PTO control knob (B) down to the disengaged/off position.
NOTE: To prevent sudden lift, lower all attachments to the ground before starting the machine.
5. Lower any rear mount or midmount attachment to the ground by pushing the rockshaft control lever to the full forward position.
6. Lower any front mounted attachment(s) to the ground using optional SCV lever.
7. Set hand throttle lever (C) to the 1/2-3/4 fast position.
8. Turn ignition key switch to the ON position.
9. Check indicator lamps:
Park brake light will glow and flash if park brake is locked.
Engine oil pressure light will glow.
Alternator/battery charging light will glow.
10. Allow the glow plugs to preheat the engine. After approximately three seconds listen for a click. Engine is now ready to start.
IMPORTANT: Avoid damage! Do not operate starter more than 20 seconds. If engine does not start, wait 2 minutes before trying again or starter may be damaged. If engine does not start after four tries, refer to the Troubleshooting section.
11. Turn key switch to START position. Release key when engine starts.
12. Check indicator lights:
Engine oil pressure light should go out within 5 seconds.
NOTE: Set engine speed at full throttle if indicator light does not go out after 10 seconds.
Alternator/battery charging light should go out within 10 seconds.
If indicator lights stay on longer than the given time interval, stop engine and check for cause.
IMPORTANT: Avoid damage! In cold weather, idle engine several minutes to allow engine oil and transmission oil to warm.
NOTE: Allowing engine to idle for long periods of time will waste fuel and cause carbon build-up.
It is normal for the engine to be louder and for blue-white exhaust smoke to be present during engine warm-up. The amount of exhaust smoke depends on air temperature.
13. Set hand throttle lever to the 1/2 fast position for 1 minute without load.
....
Link: Starting the Engine
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-09-08 116097
The 2210, 4010 and 4110 have indirect injection and glow plugs. The 4115 and on up the line have direct injection and "quicker starting".
I do miss the gentle gurgle my 4100 made. The 4115 has a sharper, more irritating sound to the exhaust. ....
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| jweiland
Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6 Sabin, MN
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2005-09-09 116114
Thanks to all respondants!
In order to make sure that I'm not missing anything before the warrantee runs out, I'm going to contact the folks at John Deere (not the local dealership....the headquarters) and ask them what to do. Again, the workaround that the dealership mechanic suggested does in fact work, but I just want to be certain that I'm not taxing a circuit in a way that will lead to a failure down the road on this tractor. I agree with the comment that "no way should I need glow plugs in the summer in Minnesota", but I worry about the effects of humid days and cool nights.....maybe this would be more of a fuel issue and not a glow-plug issue. If the folks at Deere say that this should not be happening, then I will bring it back to the dealership to look for other leakage problems.
Again,....thanks to all for responding.
-John ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-09-09 116115
Please write back to let us know what you find out. Good luck! ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-09-09 116117
CRS strikes again! I forgot about the difference in engines from the 4115 on up. I had a Kubota L245 that was a real bear to get started even on the warmest of days. It too required glow plug heat prior to the first start or after periods of setting and cooling off. Once I read up in the manual the amount of glow plug application time for given temps. and started using the glow plugs; she fired right up everytime.
I know EXACTLY what Mark is talking about with the piercing ignition noise of my 4410. It is pretty loud with crappy fuel and adding cetane raising fuel additive helps some but I still need ear muffs. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-09-09 116118
I meant to follow up and ask if you are getting the click from the glow plug timer relay 3 seconds after turning the ignition on? If the timer relay is not cycling the glow plugs as the manual stipulates; this could definitely account for the difficult in starting. I would also check the fuses on the off chance that one has blown and potentially causing this problem. ....
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| jweiland
Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6 Sabin, MN
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2005-09-09 116127
Dear Lion,
Yes, I am getting the little 'click' sound at about 3 sec after turning the ignition key to its first stop point. I thought this would mean that the glow plugs were done heating, but this appears to be wrong. It would not have been a concern if it were winter time here outside of Fargo, but with the warm days and nights of summer, it was strange that it was so hard starting. (I did have a heating element installed at the time of purchase to prepare for winter use.) I went to my Dad's house south of Minneapolis where he has a JD4400 and he mentioned not having the problems that I have. Seeing the comments here about all engines above the model 4115 makes sense now.
Thanks again!
-John ....
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