Electric Wire Trenching Safety: Trenchers  -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum and Review Electric Wire Trenching Safety: Trenchers -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum

  parts   |   manuals   |   discussion   |   photos   |   podcast   |   reviews   |   specs   |   dealers   |   classifieds   |   contact   |   faq   |   myProfile   |   home          Login Now | Sign Up


FAQ:   What is a tractor?

Forum Index

Kubota Tractors
  Kubota News
  Kubota Price
  Kubota Review
John Deere Tractors
  John Deere News
  John Deere Price
  John Deere Review
New Holland Tractors
  New Holland Tractor Price
  New Holland Tractor Revie
Other Tractor Brands
  Articulated Tractors
  Belarus
  Bobcat Tractors
  Case
  Cub Cadet
  Hinomoto
  Kioti Tractor
  Long
  Massey Ferguson
  Mitsubishi
  Other Tractor Brands
  Other Tractor News
  Shibaura
  Yanmar Tractors
Lawn and Garden Tractors
  Craftsman
  Cub Cadet Garden
  John Deere Garden
  Kubota Lawn Garden
  Other Garden Tractors
  Simplicity
  Toro Wheelhorse
  Ventrac Lawn Tractors
Antique Tractors
  Allis Chalmers
  Case David Brown
  Farmall IHC
  Ford
  Ford 9N 2N 8N
  Fordson
  Harry Ferguson
  John Deere Older
  Massey-Harris Ferguson
  Minneapolis Moline
  Oliver Cletrac Cockshutt
  Restoration
  Tractor Pulling
Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph
  Back Hoe
  Field Mowers Brush Cutter
  Grooming Mowers Finish Mo
  Loaders
  Snowblowers / Snow Plows
  Tillers and Ploughs
  Tractor Implements
  Trenchers
  Wood Chippers 3PH
Tractor Maintenance
  Diesel Fuel Lubrication E
  Tractor Engine Repair Reb
  Tractor Tires
Utility ATV
  All Terrain Vehicles
  John Deere Gator
  Mule Utility Vehicles
General Tractor
  Farming Ranching Agricult
  Photo Contest
  Size Tractor Needed
  Tractor Projects
  Tractor Safety
  Welding
Chinese Tractors
  Jinma Farmpro Agracat
  NorTrac Tractors
  Other Chinese Tractors
Cars
  All Brands
  Audi VW
  BMW
  Car Tires and Maintenance
  Chrysler
  Exotic, Sports, Racing
  Ford Cars
  General Motors
  Honda
  Hyundai
  Mercedes
  News
  Nissan
  Subaru
  SUV and Trucks
  Toyota Cars
Trucks Trailers
  Chevy Pickup Trucks
  Dodge Pickup Trucks
  Ford Pickup Trucks
  Toyota Pickup Trucks
  Chevy Pickup Trucks
  Dodge Pickup Trucks
  Ford Pickup Trucks
  Toyota Pickup Trucks
Home Building
  Alternate Electric Energy
  Barns Pole Barns
  Buying Ranch Farm Acreage
  Carpentry
  Contractors
  Electric
  Excavation
  Moldings Finish Trim
  Other Home Building
  Pellet Stoves
  Plumbing
  Wood Stoves
Tools
  Electirc Power Tools
  Gas Power Tools
  Generators
  Shop Tools
  Techniques Howto
Landscape
  Flowers Shrubs Garden
  Golf Course Maintenance
  Irrigation Systems
  Landscape Design
  Landscape Lighting
  Landscape Maintenance
  Lawn, Turf, and Grass
  Vegetable Gardening
Construction
  Caterpillar
  Komatsu
  Wheel Loaders
Current Events Health Happiness
  Current Events
  Dogs and other Pets
  Electronics And Computers
  Food
  Health
  Just For Fun Off Topic
  Movies Music Games
  Personal Finance Investme
  Sports Outdoors
Tractorpoint Site
  Member Photos
  Site Members
  Website Operations Howto


New As Posted | Active Subjects



Click to Post a New Message!

Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Trenchers Forum

Page [ 1 ] | 2 | 3 | | Next >>
Reply | Pop Up Window Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo
 03-07-2000, 00:00 Post: 13549
Mike



Join Date:
Location:
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1

2
Filter by User
 Electric Wire Trenching Safety

I am having some 120 volt Landscape Lighting put in on my property. The contractor's crew is installing most of the wire by using straight hand shovel to put the wire in the ground under the sod grass to a max depth of about 5" to 7". He is using outdoor rated wire, and says that I don't need conduit. He has told me that I if I want to pull a building permit the inspector will insist on the wire being buried about 24" and based on the ordinances it may have to go in conduit as well. This will cost me $4 per foot extra, he says the choice is mine. The contractor says that burying the wire 24" is really over kill, and that since the wire is grounded I really have nothing to worry about, in terms of electrocution risk with the shallow install he is doing. He is using one of those plug in the wall light timer control units to turn the lights on from my kitchen. He says that I don't have to worry about shock because the lights will be off during the day when people are in the yard.I know there are a lot of electricity smart people on the board, so please help me understand the risks I am taking before I continue this project






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 03-07-2000, 00:00 Post: 13551
Murf



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 7044

3
Filter by User
 Electric Wire Trenching Safety

Mike, first of all I don't understand why you are not using 12 volts d.c. for your landscape lighting, it is easier, cheaper and MUCH safer. As for the regulations, they exist for a reason, SAFETY, your tractor would probably be a little cheaper if not for the seat-belt and ROPS bar.... As for your 'contractor', if he is ADVISING you to do it this way (let alone even considering doing it) you don't want ANYTHING to do with him. If, God forbid, anyone ever got hurt I doubt your insurance company would be very happy about covering you when you INTENTIONALLY created the hazard. Think twice, do it once... Best of luck.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 03-07-2000, 00:00 Post: 13552
MichaelSnyder

TP Contributor

Join Date: Jun 1999
Location:
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 0

2
Filter by User
 Electric Wire Trenching Safety

Mike,
I have to agree with most of what Murf has posted. Personally I'm more familiar with 12VDC landscape lighting, but know the 120vac animals exist. I would not be a fan of placing 120 VAC wire only a couple of inches below the sod. I aireate our lawn, which penetrates 4"-6". Next, Lets say these lights are on a 10A or 15A breaker. I think it only takes 1/4 or 1/2 Amp across the human heart to be fatal. Add a little moisture, and the soil around the wire just turned into a bathtub with a hairdryer in it... For lack of a better example. Next, Let me present things from a different angle. If your son/daughter/wife died from electrocution, and the next day I asked you if conduit would have been worth the extra money...I'd be willing to bet you would say "It would have been worth every penny". But instead we all are generally guilty of waiting till something happens...because after all..it couldn't happen to me!! How many teen mother examples do we need.
As for the electrician, He's probably a nice local quy who's just trying to save you a few bucks, and has been "lucky" up to this point. Do as you wish, but like Murf said, electrical codes exist for a reason. If the extra money for conduit is a problem, look into 12VDC lighting.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 03-07-2000, 00:00 Post: 13558
Walt



Join Date:
Location:
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1
 Electric Wire Trenching Safety

Mike, The National Electric Code requires a minimum depth of 24" for type "UF" cable which is what your contractor, (I use this term loosely),is probably using. If you enclose type "THHN" or "THWN" in conduit you can bury at a depth of 18". Before I would allow a 120V circuit to be burried to a depth of 5-6 inches I would dig the trench myself.
If this guy's other work is on a par with the underground cable advise I would have no confidence in anything he does.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 03-07-2000, 00:00 Post: 13561
JJT



Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Upstate NY, USA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 93
 Electric Wire Trenching Safety

I agree with everything posted here, esp. Walt's reply. I strongly recommend running the wire in either conduit or simply 1" black plastic, (buried at least 18" deep). If you ever have an electrical issue you don't have to dig a new trench, pull new wire through the conduit with the existing wire). DO NOT DIRECT BURY LESS THAN 24 INCHES and always use conduit. A kid with a shovel can dig a big hole in a hurry!






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 03-08-2000, 00:00 Post: 13569
TomG

TP Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5406

7
Filter by User
 Electric Wire Trenching Safety

Sound like strong agreement here. Me too. I'll add that 120V outdoors probably should be GFI protected. Most places require GFI for outdoor outlets, but it's a good idea for lighting as well. Murf's 12V suggestion sounds very good.

You do have to watch these contractors. A neighbour back in the city got a cheap estimate for upgrading to 200A. The contractor came out, put in a 200A panel and split several existing branch circuits. The inspector showed up and said 'You can't put a 200A panel on 100A service line.' The contractor said 'That wasn't part of the job.' The inspector said 'shut it down.'

The inspector relented and allowed 100A mains to be put in. The neighbour spent the next few months trying to get the contractor to install 200A service entrance, meter base and line.

Much much aggrevation. Agree with Murf. A contractor that doesn't know what they're doing or is willing to cut corners can get a person into a lot of difficulty. Basically, homeowners are responsible for the condition of their property. If a contractor does sub-standard work, the homeowner may have to straighten it out at their own expense. The only recourse may be to sue the contractor.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 03-08-2000, 00:00 Post: 13570
Jon Eich



Join Date:
Location:
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1
 Electric Wire Trenching Safety

Your main problem with burrying so shallow will be destroying the cable inadvertantly. So from this point of view, the conduit and extra trench depth makes a lot of sense. You don't want to have to dig up your yard again if you can help it. Electrocution will not really be a factor. If, for example, you decide to dig a hole for a tree on the very same spot you have your wire burried, you'll end up grounding the wire and blowing the breaker. The only thing you'll notice is that the lights no longer work and you'll have to dig another trench and lay new wire again. Do yourself a favor and rent a trencher and dig it 24" and lay down drain tile for conduit. Overkill? Yes! but a job well done.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 03-08-2000, 00:00 Post: 13581
Larry in MI.



Join Date:
Location:
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1
 Electric Wire Trenching Safety

I strongly disagree with Jon's post. Electrocution is a factor and is likely to happen if you cut into a buried 120 vac line. If you are lucky and are using an insulated tool when you cut into the wire you will probably not experience any harm. If you are unlucky and connect with the hot (non-earth ground) side of the line you may look like the path of least resistance to the current.... e.g. you die. Bury the wire at least 24".






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 03-08-2000, 00:00 Post: 13585
Mike



Join Date:
Location:
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1

2
Filter by User
 Electric Wire Trenching Safety

Get rid of that contractor! Here in Montana, where I am an electrician we are required to be licensed. Many states don't and I'm not sure what state you are in, but if your state does require a license make sure your contractor has one. Your 120v lighting installation IS governed by the National Electrical Code. If you don't use rigid nonmetallic (PVC)conduit or galvanized rigid conduit, at least use UF wire burried 24". A licensed electrical contractor who has studied the NEC would not think of doing what you have described. Like the other guys have mentioned you will be ultimately responsible for your own safety. Also, make sure the timer is rated for switching the amperage load you will have on it, and make sure you will not be exceeding the ampacity of the branch circuit you will plug the timer into. A safe and efficient electrical installation is not rocket science, but is quite more involved than stringing a few wires and plugging in a cord. It takes 2000 hours of school and 8000 hours of on-the-job training, and passage a comprehensive exam to be licensed in most states.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 03-09-2000, 00:00 Post: 13588
droz



Join Date:
Location:
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1
 Electric Wire Trenching Safety

Electrocution is always a potential factor but remember that the current will try to flow to earth ground first (which is where all your grounds go anyway), rather than trying to go through the much higher resistance of your body. This is not to minimize the risk of course but to clarify it. I have an electrical engineering degree.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
Reply | Pop Up Window Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


Page [ 1 ] | 2 | 3 | | Next >>

Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Trenchers Forum

Thread 13549 Filter by Poster:
Billy 1 | Bruce Pirger 1 | droz 1 | gerard 2 | Jim White 1 | JJT 1 | Jon Eich 1 | Larry in MI. 1 | MichaelSnyder 2 | Mike 2 | Murf 3 | Paul 1 | RCA_TX 1 | TomG 7 | Walt 1 |

 (advanced search)

Picture of the Day
Anthony7

Tractor Engine Repair Rebuild - Foton 45  3PH will not lift
Foton 45 3PH will not lift


Unanswered Questions

Operation
Shibaura SD2203 rear axle oil
Mitsubishi MX55
Big country 4x2 utility vehicl
lift cylinder for 3pt hitch wo
Gator HPX ignition module
SL 1643
Removing LHS rear wheel beari


Active Subjects

Flatulent gifts human and dog
front mount snowblower
Still have jerk in hydro
Hydraulics Won t Work
4210 ehydro codes
P21f new solenoids or diff val
TC33D Telescoping steering col
Where Murf


Hot Topics

NorTrac Tractor Quality Review
Case 446 hydraulic pump
Long 460 hydraulic problem
Jinma Tractor w transmission p
Flatulent gifts human and dog
Generator set up ideas wanted
6X4 Gator Sometimes Shudders
Roof VP75 Brush Mower Manual


Featured Suppliers

Mountain Creek Labradoodles
      MountainCreekLabradoodles.com





New Forums on Gun Sport Shooting and Hunting -- BarrelPoint.com  New Forums on Horses ManePoint.com
Talk Horses at ManePoint
Hunting + Gun Sports at BarrelPoint



Most Viewed

+ Trenching with middle buster plow
+ 3 point trencher
+ Implement to dig a shallow irrigation trench
+ Electric Wire Trenching Safety
+ trenching sprinkler lines
+ Ditch Witch R65 Trencher
+ drainage trench
+ RoadRunner Trencher
+ looking for used 3 point trencher
+ 3ph trencher

Most Discussion

+ Electric Wire Trenching Safety
+ 3 point trencher
+ Implement to dig a shallow irr
+ 3ph trencher
+ drainage trench
+ trenching sprinkler lines
+ Trenching with middle buster p
+ No moving parts trencher
+ More About Electrical Trenchin
+ looking for used 3 point trenc

Newest Topics

+ Toro TD 25 chain
+ Ditch Witch R65 Trencher
+ Brown mfg trencher - any good
+ 3pt Trencher Construction
+ 3 point trencher
+ looking for used 3 point trencher
+ electronic ignition
+ Ditchwitch
+ RoadRunner Trencher
+ Trencher-3 Point
















Turbochargers for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Cab Glass for Tractors and Industrial Machines

Alternators for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Radiators for Tractors and Industrial Machines

Driveline Components for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Starter Motors for Tractors and Industrial Machines