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 11-06-2003, 19:48 Post: 68159
kwschumm



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I've been looking for Diamond pattern chains for my 15-19.5 rear and 25x8.5-14 front tires and can only find diamond rears for $262/pair.

In the double ladder design (twice as many cross chains as single ladder) I can find both front and rear ($78front/$196rear).

In the V-bar double ladder design I can only fronts ($96). I did find V-bar single ladder (half as many cross chains) for the rears for $154.

Several questions come to mind. Does it matter if I mix one type of chains on the rear and another type on the front? Does anyone know a source for diamond pattern chains in these sizes? Which of these types would perform best in mud? Do the V-bars do anything in mud, or only on ice?

Thanks for any and all help.






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 11-06-2003, 21:36 Post: 68162
Art White



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Ken from the looks of the tires on your tractor they have a bar of about two inch height at it's best, it is probably at about 17 degree or so maybe less. The spacing says that the chains will fit as a solid type tire. The thing you need to do is cause a severe high impact area to break into the lower level of the clay to beg a reach or grab a hold to pull your tractor along. Would you look at double rings as being common in most farm areas. When you might break a cross chain they would be available at your local equipment dealer.






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 11-06-2003, 22:26 Post: 68169
kwschumm



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Thanks, Art. So far I haven't been able to find double ring chains in these sizes but I'll keep looking.






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 11-06-2003, 22:42 Post: 68173
Art White



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Am I wrong on my description on your tires? Pics sometimes don't give you the best look.






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 11-06-2003, 22:49 Post: 68174
kwschumm



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You're probably right about the tires I have. I'm not sure about the angle but it's fairly shallow and 15-20 degrees is probably about right. The lugs are no more than two inches deep and probably a bit less.






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 11-06-2003, 23:00 Post: 68175
DRankin



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Ken..... this is the old Alaskan talking. I don't think the v-bars are much good on slime: as you suspect they are made to grab ice. BUT.... they can't hurt either and if they are the best deal grab them.

I have a different view of chains than most. I see them as a version of the bar tire that Art describes but with a major difference.

I have looked carefully at your pics and two things stand out.

First, in some views the center of the tread is clogged with mud while the edges appear relatively clean.

Analysis: Despite its greater weight, your tractor cannot lay those puppies flat on the ground, even in mud.

Second, When you really got into deep kimchee, the entire tread was plastered smooth with mud. In effect, you were trying to get traction on mud, with mud.

Analysis: the capacity for the tires to clean themselves had been exceeded. I think there are two reasons for this.

1) the angles of the bars, depth of the tread and the INFLEXIBILITY of the tire all contribute to the problem.

And, 2)this is really icky mud that may well exceed the ability of any tire design to clean itself.

When you go to pop the cubes out of the ice tray, you flex the tray to break the grip of the ice on the walls of the tray.

Your R-4's will not do this because they are designed to run on skid loaders that are three times the weight of your tractor.

Back to chains. Here you have a device that is inherently flexible, even on R-4 tires. It will dump its load of mud/snow as it is pressured to pick up another load.

What matters is breaking the mud clogging sections into reasonably small segments that will fall away under the pressure of a new load, but they have to have a place to go.

That said, I think the diamond pattern would be ok, but a standard set of chains might be even more effective if you linked the center of each chain to the next, creating an "H" pattern.

This would effectively break the clog of mud into easily digestible segments, sort of like the way a good rain tire prevents hydroplaning by pumping the fluid out to the sides and away from the tire.

My two bits. Mark.






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 11-07-2003, 02:47 Post: 68179
harvey



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You can get your regular old ladder chains and go after market and add in your other cross chains. Double rings every other one on the rears and keep fronts regular. You will find on the front if you get to long a cross link the side chain or if they get cockeyed they will rub on the tie rod and tear the boot Not a problem if you keep it greased.

Mark pretty much nails my view IRON IS IRON they do not have to be beautiful and the more they can be allowed to squirm around on the tires the better. Mine the cross links are welded together for the right fit. Each rear chain on my custom "cobs" from many different sources (mostly old heavy truck chains) and weigh over 100# each.

Usually I chain up before I need them but now and then I do an AH-S---! and stick it. 90% of time I can get out by curling the bucket forward/back with it stuck in the ground. If I have to I'll just put the front chains on because I can get the front up and clear with the bucket, get out and finish resr of chains on hard ground if I need to continue working.

I probably have over a 1000# of various cross and side chains in various styles. I'll get them from the town barn trading coffee and donuts for their old stuff they can not use. My other source is auctions for old double rings, but even now they are pricey for worn out chains.

I have way more than I'll ever use in this life do ya want some?






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 11-07-2003, 07:49 Post: 68200
Art White



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Ken the prices are about what you had on your post. I feel you will have to keep them tight for fear of fender damage but I think that you would be best with them.






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 11-07-2003, 10:24 Post: 68215
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Mark, that was a very cogent analysis of the problem and your Alaskan wisdom is very apparent. The lack of flexibility is a big reason to dislike R4s.

Harvey, at this point I wouldn't know how to modify or fabricate a set of chains that aren't already sized correctly. I have a feeling that in a year or so I'll be an old chain pro.

Do I need a welder to add cross links? Or is there some sort of tool made for that purpose? Or do I just get a hammer and vice and make it work?






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 11-07-2003, 10:53 Post: 68217
DRankin



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The extra cross links are just bent into place on the side chains.






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