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JD 4100 v BX series

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Paige
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2001-10-14          32408

Hi, we are looking to by a subcomapact for our landscaping and have looked at JD & Kabota.. the boomer appears to be overkill for use (1.5 acres but steep hill). We want a front end loader (to haul gravel, wood etc) and also a mower. Has anyone done research on these 2? Have I overlooked something here? I grew up on a farm ww/ Ford, Massey, JD & Kabota but as Farm tractors--- I really want to compare apples to apples. Any thoughts?Thanks! Paige

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JD 4100 v BX series

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Bird Senter
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2001-10-14          32411

Paige, it's hard to recommend a specific tractor without knowing more specifics of what you need it to do, but for an acre and a half with a steep slope (how steep?), the BX sounds like a good choice; probably the most stable on a slope. Is the 400# or so lift capacity of it's front end loader enough for you? Of course, John Deere and New Holland (and some others) also make good tractors. ....

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Paige
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2001-10-14          32413

Thanks for the info- we have a 20' drop in about 20'... quote from the landscapers to terrace was ~ 40K. I'm looking for 3 terraces using concrete wall blocks. ALso we would use this to plow the driveway & Mow... I'm fairly keen on the Kabota hydraulics technology. It is a tough call to just buy a snowblower & a rider mower and forget the hill or get a nice little tractor we will grow with (we plan to up the acrage in ~10 yrs). We'd also like to spend under 15K. ....

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Griff
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2001-10-14          32416

Don't get locked in on the big names. I just went through this same process and will be placing an order for a Power-trac. Will spend less but get much more than I could with a JD or Kubota solution. It also has more power (800 Lbs lifting), better ergonomics and has a better approach to attachments. There are other threads concerning about this line posted elsewere. ....


Link:   Power Trac web site.

 
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JD 4100 v BX series

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John Mc
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2001-10-14          32417

Paige -
The JD 4100 is a nice tractor for mowing, and some other uses, but may be a bit small for a big landscaping job. You could probably do it, but it will take a lot of time. If you want to go larger on a budget, you may want to check out the JD 790. It's JD's "price fighter" tractor. A bit heavier, and higher HP than the 4100 (2105# & 30 HP, vs 1565# and 20 HP). The 790 is limited in other areas (no hydrostatic transmission, smaller accessory hydraulic pump) but is a solid tractor.

New Holland is also coming out with a "budget" tractor, the TC30. Similar pricing to the JD 790. I guess similar features, but rumor has it hydrostatic transmission will be an option. From everything I've heard, it sounds like a great tractor. ....

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Art White
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2001-10-15          32426

The thoughts of either of those tractors doing that work is tiring. I'd have a contractor dig it out for the shelves and use your new trator to put it together with. I would recommend the BX for the yard you now have without any reservation except for what you want to do unless time is not a problem. A backhoe would also be needed to dig the footers for the wall supports unless you are in sand. ....

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Craig Dashner
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2001-10-15          32429

I have a 4100 gear w/ loader and am happy with it. I use it to mow about 1 acre, and maintenace on 5 acres, maintaining and plowing 1/2 mile of private drive. This little tractor will do a lot!! I cant give you a Kubota comparison since I don't own one. I picked JD over Kubota based solely on dealers. Liked the JD dealer and disliked the Kubota dealer.

The tractor may not be best suited for digging for your wall project, but can do many other things. I have moved many yards of dirt, mulch, wood, gravel, etc with mine. Sure, it takes some trips to do it, but it beats the heck out of a shovel and wheelbarrow!!!! I've cleared a site for a detached garage (1 to 2 inch saplings and brush), striped the topsoil and leveled it for the slab and graded everything when it was finished. Next project is a driveway. You can go out and rent a dozer and do it in 2 hours or use a 4100 and do it in 8 hours. It all depends on you! Others here would not want to spend the time or worry about abusing/wearing out the tractor doing the job that another piece of equipment is better suited for (no offense to anyone). I don't mind, I bought it to be able to do the stuff, and given the time, it will do it!!

The two series tractors you mention will do you well. When deciding factor in the following: Dealer, is he going to give you good service? Attachments, ease of removal, putting on the loader, mower etc. Tractor itself, Is it comfortable to you, all controls within reach, easy enough to get on and off. I am sure there is more, but thats the main stuff.

Good luck! ....

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DennisCTB
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2001-10-15          32430

If you want to comapare apples to apples you should compare the Kubota BX to the Deere 4100 and the Kubota B7500. The Deere 4100 and B7500 are about the same size. The Bx is much smaller in wheel size and much lower in ground clearance, much more like a souped up garden tractor. ....

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DRankin
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2001-10-15          32435

Yes to all the above. But the BX is superstable on the steep lot and it will run a backhoe where the 4100 will not. ....

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Joe A. Bell
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2001-10-16          32464

I have a 4100 HST with loader, rear blade and mid-mount mower. I have done a fair amount of landscaping (flower and vegtable gardens) in which I have dug out three large holes of about 900 square feet to a depth of about 1.5-2 feet (using rear blade) and moving the dirt (using the front loader). While the size of the loader and tractor makes this job take longer than a larger tractor, it is probably much better at the job than the BX.
I looked at the BX before buying. While the BX is a neat little tractor, if you compare to the 4100 (easy for me since the local Kubota dealer also handles JD), or other similar sized tractors, you will notice that the BX is somewhat lighter. Look for example at the three point hitch; it is clearly lighter construction than the 4100. And, I seriously doubt that the front loader bucket is as heavy as the JD 410 loader. By the way, there you can get a backhoe for the 4100, just not from Deere. The loaders do have additonal frame support.
As for mowing, the BX and the 4100 should perform about the same. After all they are similar in HP. ....

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DRankin
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2001-10-16          32471

Deere is very emphatic in the sales literature where they state that the 4100 is not compatable with any backhoe, although I don't know why and that didn't stop me from buying one (a 4100). As far as the back hoe, for what little use I would get from one it would be cheaper in the long run to rent one at $250.00 a day than to buy one for $5000-$7000. Any one know why they would put such strong language in the sale brochure? ....

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Rich Luhr
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2001-10-16          32474

Mark, to answer your question, I heard that JD is worried that the 4100 frame can't take the ongoing stresses induced by a backhoe. Maybe so, but there are a lot of 4100s out there with hoes on them, from Kelley, etc., and so far I haven't heard of one breaking the tractor. I guess it comes down to how hard and how long you work your machine. I had a Ford 1310 a while back (similar in size and HP to the 4100) with a loader and backhoe. Every weld on the frame was cracked due to overwork by the previous owner. But who knows how many hours that took? (The hourmeter read 588 but it only had three digits -- so maybe it was 8,588?) ;-) ....

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RPM
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2001-10-17          32481


I disagree with the characterization of the BX as a souped up lawnmower.

I'm an engineer and can tell you that it is definitely in the mold of scaled down tractor, rather than scaled up lawn-mower. In fact, I don't see much difference in frame construction etc. (if any) as compared with the larger B-series Kubotas.

I could easily extend this analysis to cover the engine technology, transmission etc.

Yes, the BX has been designed to fit a particular niche - and it is a scaled down tractor with a lower ground clearance. But to dismiss it as a souped-up lawn-mower exhibits a disregard for the facts.

RPM
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DennisCTB
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2001-10-18          32499

RPM,

Since you want to keep to the facts I better clarify what I meant by "Souped Up".

What I said was that the BX had smaller tires than the B7500 and 4100, and that it fit the niche of a "Souped Up" "Garden Tractor" NOT "Lawn Mower" as you said. It fits the niche for buyers who really want a TOP end "Garden Tractor", plus 4wd and loader and 3pH capabilities.

From a spec view the Bx, 4100 and B7500 seem to be almost the same thing. But if you stand next to them and look at them there seems to be a "World of Difference" in the physical presence that the Big Tires, and high ground clearance makes on the B7500 and 4100 JD.

I have looked at them many times side by side, and I can say that if you can use a graden tractor on your property you will love the BX, but you might not like the B7500.

Now when you compare a BX to a Garden Tractor like the Wheelhorse or John Deere 2wd GT's they are about the same size in wheels and ground clearance but the GT's are lighter, and simply not up to what a BX can do. That's what I mean by a "souped up" Garden Tractor for the BX. It has all the wonderful attributes (diesel engine 4wd, 3PH, heavy axles and frame) of a compact tractor with the footprint of a GT.

This is good news for people with smaller lots and who need better handling on manicured lawns while still being able to attach a loader for mulch and a blower for snow. An absolutlely outstanding option for many buyers. ....

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RPM
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2001-10-18          32506


OK WebMaster - you've placated me somewhat!

I would still prefer that the BX be referred to as a 'lowered' compact tractor rather than a 'souped-up' garden-tractor -- this may seem like a language issue, but is actually quite relevant from an engineering perspective. As you noted, the mechanicals and frame on the BX are on par with the JD 4100 or B7500. It's just a question of smaller wheels that give the BX any resemblance to a garden tractor.

As you have probably guessed I own a BX myself. My needs were greater than a garden tractor - but less than most compact tractors. I had the choice of the 7500 or the BX in terms of what I was willing to pay - but chose the BX. The ability to handle compact tractor tasks - with the stability of the lowered frame - were what swung me with my property. I have a variety of banks and ditches that I would not have been able to tackle on a 7500 or equivalent with the higher center of gravity.

This was definitely a clever mixture of marketing and engineering from Kubota. I anticipate that there will continue to be many more satisfied owners like me out there. On a side note, John Deere was supposed to be introducing a BX competitor around now - but it hasn't appeared to my knowledge.

Anyone have any information on that?

RPM
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Mark G.
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2001-10-19          32525

I have owned a bx2200 series tractor. I bought it to mow and use to blade etc. I found it was perfect for mowing and thats about it! The blades to put on these tractors have to be small because the links will not spread very far. I borrowed a blade and it would barley pull gravel. If your interest is to have a loader, etc. I would recommend a bigger tractor with more horse. I kept the tractor for about 6 months, it took 4 months to get the mower. I traded it and bought a boomer tractor. I have owned them all, and by far the bx was nothing more than a 4x4 lawnmower and the worst inverstment I made. I guess I expected too much out of the tractor! A real bargain for the money is the JD 790. You can do about what ever you want with this tractor. The last I checked you could get a new one for about $11500. I do own a New Holland but I can say that nothing has an easier attachment system then the JD. If I was to buy another it would probably be the 790. Good luck on your decision. ....

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RPM
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2001-10-19          32537


Well I'm certainly surprised to hear your complaints. With regard to the lower links on the 3 point hitch, you must have had one of the earliest models. The time it took you to get the mower also makes me think this. The 3 point hitch on the BX has since been redesigned. Anyone with the old hitch can get it replaced with the new design. I have a 60" LandPride rear-blade and don't have any problems with spread.

With regard to the horsepower of the tractor - this one I definitely don't understand. I have used my LandPride blade on gravel and clay - without issues. I also have friends using 48" box-blades - again no problem - they can fill them and keep going. No problems with post-hole augers (WorkSaver), rippers (WorkSaver) or middle-busters either to my knowledge.

I'm sorry you were disappointed with the BX - I would probably also have been if I bought one of the first off the production line. The initial issues have been corrected though - and as I said I don't believe there has ever been an issue with power. The engine is a 905cc diesel and uses the same technology as the slightly larger ones in the B series.

As a final comment I have to say that it would have been one of your worst investments to sell it. After all, if you had kept it and had the service bulletins applied you wouldn't have lost anything on it would you? :-)

RPM
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Rick
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2001-10-19          32540

New Holland tc30 4x4 loader hydro 30 hp less than 14500.00 list. lots of power low price go see a New Holland dealer and ask about this one. ....

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Sternsher
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2001-11-26          33451

Couple of thoughts as I've read the postings: A) After touring the JD plant last year in Augusta, GA, JD is not planning a BX comparable tractor because the engineers there say the current JD455 can run head-to-head with a BX with the exception of a ROPS (did see prototypes of new 4000 - 10 series, inor updateds to existing series). Actually - if you go to the websites, Kubota and JD - the specs of both the BX and the 455 would concur the capacities are similar - including loader. B) I currently have a JD4100 hydro w/R4 Industrial tires (chosen over a Kubota purely due to better dealer relations and reputation with local JD dealer). I also have the JD410 Loader, JD 3pt Weight Box, JD413 Rotary Cutter (bushhog), JD450 tiller, 60" mid-mount mower deck, Herd 3pt spreader, and JD 31 Post-hole digger. So far after 205 hours, it's done every thing I've wanted the last two years. Moved dirt, mowed 2 acres, bush-hogged 3.5 acres, pushed snow, leveled gravel, dug concrete slab foundations for pole barns - no complaints here. Now I don't mind, but my wife prefers the 2-pedal operation of the JD4100 over the Kubotas we tried (at dealer and our neighbor has a B7500). Hope this helps - one thing for sure, our dealer makes the difference for us otherwise I meet be driving orange. ....

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jeff r
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2002-08-17          41329

Did anybody tell you the Bx only has 1 hydro cylinder for their front loader? IT IS A GOOD SUB-COMPACT Tractor nothing more nothing less. Price wise it is NOT a Good deal compared to other compact tractors. The size of the front tires are tinker toy. NH TC30 is a BIG COmpact tractor with a very good price with loader. Look at the Kubota B7500 or B2410 specs and see what YOU think? ....

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SethO
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2002-09-02          41922

jeff r,

And your point is that you must have 2 cylinders for a front loader?

What about backhoes, they all seem to have only one cylinder.

Seth ....

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jeff r
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2002-09-02          41930

Seth,

The reason they have only one cylinder on backhoes is surface area and function of the cylinder. A bucket being pushed in a pile has much frontal resistance as compared to any function of of a backhoe. That is why 2 cylindera on a front loader are preferable to a single cylinder. Some articulated front loaders have huge single cylinders that do the work of 2, but that aisn't the case of the bx series. A single cylinder is done because of cost restraints. A BX series sub compact tractor is still a sub-compact tractor any way you cut it. ....

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DRankin
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2002-09-02          41933

The LOADERS on every Case-Deere-whatever backhoe at the local rental yards all have a SINGLE cylinder to dump/scoop the bucket. Big and small, every single one of them.
Stats: BX lift cylinder bore=1.5 inches
BX tilt cylinder bore= 2.25 inches. ....

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SethO
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2002-09-02          41946

jeff r,

I dont't know what your problems are with the BX22 but there are a lot of loaders with similar specs that have 2 cylinders.

By the way, if you put the 4100 against the BX22, and you follow the manufacturer's advice about implement limitations, you will realise that the SUB is in the JD 4100.

Have a nice day!

Seth ....

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Koby
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2002-09-03          41954

Does anyone know if Paige bought a tractor yet? I'm curious to see if this discussion has been of any help at all. ....

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Al in Nova Scotia
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2002-09-06          42079

Im just about to spend the money on either a JD 4300 or a Kubota L3010. I don't see many people mentioning either of these two models. I own 86 acres in both farmland and woods with a driveway that is half a mile long. The Kubota gets me a hydrostatic and mid PTO for the same price (close) as the JD with a syncreverser. I'm also buying a blower and loader for both tractors. This is a loaded question I'm sure, but any recommendations on which to buy would be appreciated. ....

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TomG
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2002-09-06          42081

You might say how much and what kind of field work you're anticipating. Either tractor mentioned probably could get most jobs done, but a larger one might be quicker if a lot of field work will be done. It's mostly a question of time and how much of it you want to spend on a tractor. However, in some areas trying to do things like hay between rains needs quick and a small tractor may loose a crop. ....

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DRankin
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2002-09-06          42082

Al...A little more info please. Are both tractors new? If so is the 4300 a 4310? Are you planning on mowing with either tractor? Or doing at lot of loader work in close quarters, like a barn? ....

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Al in Nova Scotia
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2002-09-06          42091

Yep I meant the JD 4310. Initially the majority of the work will be plowing in the winter. My future plans include grapes and/or blueberries. Money is also a big issue the L3010 and the JD 4310 are right at my limit. I'm trying to get an idea of which machine is the most durable. I always end up in a discussion suspiciously familiar to a Ford versus Chevy debate. It may simply be that I can't go wrong with either. ....

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DRankin
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2002-09-06          42094

Durability is a HOT topic on this site right now. But as you scan through the comments you will find far fewer complaints on the L series Kubota's than you will find on the 4200-4700 Deere’s. I think the 4210 has probably addressed most of the early production/warranty problems but we are still hearing about malfunctioning switches and steering columns. ....

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MRETHICS
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2002-09-06          42101

I think in your case, it's down to the dealership, and a test session.......get on those horses and see which one feels the best. ....

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TomG
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2002-09-07          42114

Here are some comments about snow removal. I originally bought a 3ph blower because my Ford doesn't have mid-pto and I found that rear to front pto conversions are expensive. Front blowers also are more expensive than 3ph types.

I clear around 400' of drive plus parking space, which is quite a bit less than a 1/2 mile. You do have to turn around in the seat, and in light snows the blower will clear snow faster than I'm willing to drive in reverse. Never the less, driving in reverse doesn't bother me. Maybe I'd re-think the 3ph type if I had a 1/2-mile to do, but I doubt it. I alternate between loader and blower when clearing and I wouldn't want to go through winter without a loader or having to swap blower and loader frequently.

If the blower is going to be a 3ph type, then mid-pto may not be an important feature unless there might be a MMM in the future, and the JD may have other advantages. On the other hand, it sounds like the JD has a gear transmission that may not be an advantage.

My Ford has a 12 x 4 gear TX that provides a synchromesh reverse and three forward gears in each of four ranges. Even with four reverse speeds it's not uncommon to find that one reverse goes slower than I'd like and the next is a bit fast. I'm not sure I'd want to get by with fewer than four reverses. I'd say that if the JD has only two reverses I'd want to make sure that one of them is a good compromise speed.

As you probably know ground speed in tractors is selected mostly be gear rather than engine rpm, especially when using a pto implement. The issue of ground speed and reverse gears may be especially important to doing a 1/2-mile drive. Most times, you'd probably want to go as fast as the tractor still feels under control as long as the blower clears the snow. Synchromesh is an important feature, especially for loader work, but control of ground speed also is important to use a 3ph blower and a HST might have an advantage. Despite the tough choice, I’d put a lot of stock in trying each and seeing which tractor/dealer suits you the best.
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Al in Nova Scotia
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2002-09-09          42177

Thanks very much for the input Folks ! I'm leaning more now towards the Kubota. It seems to fit a big guy like myself better than the JD. The shifter on the left side of the JD digs into my leg. The Kubota appears (to my untrained eye at least) to be more rugged. Does anybody know if there is a new model of L3010 coming out ? Also what are these things like to start in cold whether - I'm up here in Canada after all ! ....

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Art White
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2002-09-09          42180

I think you are about as far north as anyone can get a block heater just to be sure. On the old air cooled tractors we sold the SAME and Lamborghini line we had to go to mini-chargers on the batteries and found that to be an excellent system which you might want to look at. We are in Central NY and it is often below 0 here and we sell less than 1/3 of our Kubota's with heaters but there is nothing like being prepared for the worst. ....

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TomG
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2002-09-09          42181

My time is over this morning but I'll get back to this. There should be a bunch of stuff in the archives about cold weather operation. Basically it's not much of a problem for modern diesels, but oils, fuels and block heaters are issues.

Pre-heaters are normal on diesels now. Indirect injection engines use glow plugs while direct injection engine use some form of manifold heating. Starter fluid shouldn't be necessary and should never be used in a diesel equipped with glow-plugs. It’s not a good idea in direct inject engines either.
....

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Ted@Abbeywoods, LLC
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2002-09-09          42197

So Al (in Nova Scotia), you've neglected to tell us if you had another tractor already. If I had 86 acres of land and a driveway anywhere near as long as yours I wouldn't be considering such small machines unless I already owned a larger one. If you visit Big Truck and Heavy Equipment Trader online you can find many, many, resonably priced low hour machines - big and little! My friend and landscaping competitor has 23 acres, he wouldn't be without his two machines: JD310 turbo TLB with heated EROPS and Kubota L35 with a soft cab and heat. He never runs out of work for either, both were bought used through contacts he made at "Trader." The '94 JD cost $21K, the '96 Bota cost $19K, both had low hours and run super fine. For the amount spent he never has to worry about being under-sized in the tractor department. Think about it, 86 acres can pose some interesting challenges even for a full size excavator. Oh well, just a suggestion. ....

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JD 4100 v BX series

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Stan
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 87
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2002-09-09          42204

Al in Novia Scotia -

Just curious, where in the province are you from. I have (had) family in the Cape Negro area, also in Barrington and Yarmouth. You can reply to my private e-mail if you want, rather than tie up the forum.

Stan
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JD 4100 v BX series

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2002-09-09          42207

Ted, I had never heard of the Equiptment Trader Online. What a cool site! Thanks for suggesting it.
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