FEL Pressure Adjustment: New Holland Tractor Review  -- New Holland Tractors Discussion Forum and Review FEL Pressure Adjustment: New Holland Tractor Review -- New Holland Tractors Discussion Forum

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 07-12-2002, 20:50 Post: 40316
Mrwurm



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 FEL Pressure Adjustment

Before I bought my tractor (NH TC30), I told one of the dealers that the John Deere and Kubota both had enough down-force on the loader to lift the front of the tractor without curling the bucket. He quickly took a tractor off the lot and sent it into the service bay. When it came back out it had enough downforce to lift the front end without curling the bucket. OK, heres the question. I assume he adjusted a relief valve. Where is it ?

(a TC30 has the old style NH selective control valve like on a 1720, 1920)

Jerry






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 07-15-2002, 06:49 Post: 40379
Art White



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 FEL Pressure Adjustment

I wasn't aware that when set top factory specs they would do that.






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 07-15-2002, 08:40 Post: 40382
Mrwurm



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 FEL Pressure Adjustment

Art, some class II TC owners have told me that there machine will easily lift the front end without curling the bucket. As I understand it, the hydraulic pump puts out 2150 psi and the loader valve goes into relief at 1800 psi. I am certain there are good reasons for this, but it does seem that there is room for a 'little' adjustment.

Jerry






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 07-15-2002, 16:39 Post: 40399
JerryGoucher



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 FEL Pressure Adjustment

If you will let the brakes off and or have it out of gear it should lift the front wheels. That way it can roll as it lifts and not try to lift the whole tractor.
Good Luck
JerryG






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 07-17-2002, 07:53 Post: 40443
TomG

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 FEL Pressure Adjustment

Here are a couple of distinctions that helped me gain a bit of an understanding of hydraulics. These distinctions aren't necessarily directly related to the subject of pressure adjustment.

A pump is rated for the pressures it can withstand rather than the pressures it can produce. A pump with a load produces little pressure. It's the load that creates pressure. Most modern gear pumps are rated for continuous pressures over 3,000 lbs. and intermittent pressures over 4,000 lbs. It's both heat and volumetric efficiency that limit a pump's pressure rating.

The 2150 lbs. pump rating probably refers to the adjustment on the tractor's system relief valve. The pump should be capable of withstanding greater pressures. Most auxiliary valve assemblies have their own pressure relief valves. If somebody knows a reason for one to be set below the tractor's relief valve, I'd be happy to hear it. If the tractor on the lot disappeared into the shop for a very short time, it's likely that the pressure relief on the loader valve was adjusted. The relief setting on many valve assemblies is a screw adjustment. Many tractors relief pressure are adjusted by disassembling the valve and changing shims under a spring. Such an adjustment would take more time.

My Ford 1710 with an Allied 195 loader won't lift the front wheels when the bucket is flat either. That's because the bucket won't go low enough. If I angle the bucket down a bit before lowering it, the loader lift raises the front wheels off the ground easily.






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 07-17-2002, 08:31 Post: 40447
Mrwurm



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 FEL Pressure Adjustment

Good post as always, Tom. I have heard that sometimes loader cylinder packings are not capable of surviving the 'full' system pressure. Or maybe the loader frame or tractor would be overloaded by the forces generated by the greater power output. This is in response to your ponderings as to why a selective control valve would have a different relief setting then the main system relief.

Your comment about angling the bucket down and then lowering it is exactly the point I'm getting at. My tractor can almost accomplish this as well. I can feel it want to raise but it just can't do it. I know that only a 'little' more pressure would make it work better. Say 50 or 100 psi more.

Jerry






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 07-17-2002, 10:07 Post: 40452
DRankin



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 FEL Pressure Adjustment

So are we saying that there is more leverage or more power in the curl function of the loader than there is in the lifting function?






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 07-17-2002, 10:30 Post: 40454
TomG

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 FEL Pressure Adjustment

At least in my case power and pressure isnít the problem. The loader lift has plenty of power to lift the wheels. There's just not enough downward travel to do more than take a bit of weight off the front.

If I angle the bucket down then the blade edge is closer to the ground and it doesn't take as much downward travel to lift the wheels. I think angling the bucket down would reduce the leverage and increase the pressure required to lift the front because the point of ground contact would be closer to the rear axles. However, I believe that the curl does exert more force than the lift due to frame geometry and a curl may well be able to lift the front while the lift can't on some tractors. Mine isn't like that, although I can recall trying to lift the edge of a 6" concrete slab once. the lift wouldn't tough it but the curl did.

Good point about the possibility that loader cylinders are rated lower than a tractor's system pressure. There's probably a max pressure spec somewhere in the loader's manuals. Another possibility is that the geometry of the loader's frame would allow too much stress on the tractor frame if full system pressure were allowed.

Gee that's a bunch of posts from me today. I must have been saving up while we were at our camp. I do have a lesson to pass along I learned while there. Bug dope that contains DEET tears up mono-filament fishing line. You get it on your hands and then onto the fishing line. I lost a decent pike that hit a brand new Mepps spinner several feet from shore. I could see it all happen. The water was shallow enough that the pike couldn't do much more than turn for deeper water. It barely bent the light rod before the 8-lbs line let go. I was using a steel leader so that wasn't the problem. Dang! Well, live and learn. I now have new spinners and new line.






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 07-17-2002, 11:10 Post: 40455
Mrwurm



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 FEL Pressure Adjustment

Mark and Tom, this is how I understand the downforce verses curl thing. The force exerted by a hydraulic cylinder is related to how much surface area is exposed to the fluid pressure. (that's surface area 90 degrees to direction of travel) On the lift cylinders, the up stroke uses the surface area of the entire piston. On the down stroke the surface area is the area of the piston minus the area used up by the rod. On the curl cylinders, the entire piston area is exposed in the 'curl-down' direction making this the stronger direction for this cylinder. So, the it makes sense that the curl-down function of the bucket can lift the tractor easier the down-stroke function of the lift cylinders. (surface area in inches multiplied by psi)
I'll bet Tom knows how to do the math.

I apologize if you already knew this.

DISCLAIMER: I am no hydraulic mechanic, but this is how it was explained to me.






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 07-17-2002, 14:05 Post: 40461
DRankin



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 FEL Pressure Adjustment

Tom, I kept some bug dope in my tackle box one year and forgot to remove in over the winter. It not only ate the line, it disolved parts of the reel!






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