Rear tire Horse Power: New Holland Tractor Prices  -- New Holland Tractors Discussion Forum and Review Rear tire Horse Power: New Holland Tractor Prices -- New Holland Tractors Discussion Forum

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 02-18-2005, 00:12 Post: 106339
thetool1



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 Rear tire Horse Power

Have been looking a purchasing a NH TC 40 or 40D. My main concern is the loss of horse power at the rear tires with a Hydrostatic transmission, as compared with the shuttle shift.
MY question is, is there a small or large difference. The NH will be moving a lot of dirt from one place to another. Thanks for any advice!






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 02-18-2005, 09:56 Post: 106369
DRankin



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 Rear tire Horse Power

Every transmission soaks up some amount of horsepower.

I read recently that an HST can absorb as much as 40 percent. Based on owning nearly identical tractors with two different transmissions, I would have to believe that figure.

The real question is: even with the power losses, is there enough juice left to do the job? In my case the answer is, Yes.

The convenience, and ease of use is well worth any potential downsides with an HST. I will not go back to a gear tranny.






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 02-18-2005, 10:40 Post: 106373
rudedog



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 Rear tire Horse Power

Not sure how accurate it is, but a dealer told me that HST typically derates output in the neighborhood of 3-5 HP.

There are a lot of variables, not the least of which is how much HP gross you have to start with.






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 02-18-2005, 10:43 Post: 106374
Chief



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 Rear tire Horse Power

thetool1 & Mark,

That is a very good question. For instance, my 4410 is rated at 35 gross hp, and 29 pto hp. To my knowledge Deere does not rate these tractors draw bar hp which is what it appears you are talking about. I was not able to find any Nebraska test results for my 4410 but I would imagine that the draw bar hp would be about the same. I have read articles (see below) that the 4410 draw bar hp is 30 hp but the article does not provide any data verification. Worst case assuming 29 hp; that would be a 6 hp drive train power loss or about 20%. 40% sounds kinda high but I could see that if you look at it from the view point of pto hp AND draw bar hp simultaneously. In most cases we are using the pto on our tractors when we are using them.

In any case, I agree with Mark; so far, I have pretty much had the juice to get what I needed to do done and on a VERY few occasions had to slow up to allow power recovery.

It would be a VERY interesting piece of data to see just exactly what each tractor did loose with respect to pto and draw bar hp. You don't seem many machines anymore with a belt drive on them which was another hp rating factor years ago.






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 02-18-2005, 10:52 Post: 106376
thetool1



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 Rear tire Horse Power

Thanks for the replay everybody, I figured it had to be a fairly large persentage. I realize that probobaly nobody runs dyno test on tractors, not much of a market. But it does make a stronger case for the shuttle shift.
I was wondering Drankin if you could remember where you read the info on transmissions






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 02-18-2005, 10:57 Post: 106378
DRankin



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 Rear tire Horse Power

Kubota B7800: 30 gross and 22 at the PTO, a 27 percent loss and one might assume that turning even more gears and wheels would reduce it even further.

Kubota BX2230: 22 gross and 16.7 at the PTO, 24 percent loss.

BX1500: 15/10.6 = 30 percent loss.






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 02-18-2005, 10:59 Post: 106379
DRankin



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 Rear tire Horse Power

Also: there should be a clue if you look at the difference between the pto rating on the HST vs. Shuttle.






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 02-18-2005, 11:23 Post: 106384
Chief



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 Rear tire Horse Power

I checked on the Nebraska Tractor Test Lab website and they do not test tractor below 100 hp for draw bar hp.






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 02-18-2005, 11:32 Post: 106385
greg_g



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 Rear tire Horse Power

The basic formula for geared tractors is
engine hp - 14% = PTO hp
PTO hp - 14% = drawbar hp
Shuttle shifts fall into this category.

I'm under the impression that HST refers only to transmission, and that the PTO drive train is still geared. If true, you should be able to subtract 14% from the PTO hp to arrive at HST drawbar hp.

//greg//






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 02-18-2005, 11:53 Post: 106387
beagle

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 Rear tire Horse Power

Hydros do eat up a little more engine horsepower. I believe a typical hydro will reduce drawbar horsepower about 5-10% more than a gear. The larger the gross engine horsepower, the lower the % loss at the drawbar.

If they posted drawbar horsepower instead of gross engine horsepower, we would all be driving bigger machines.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > New Holland Tractor Prices Forum

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