B7500 and a Log splitter: Kubota Review  -- Kubota Tractors Discussion Forum and Review B7500 and a Log splitter: Kubota Review -- Kubota Tractors Discussion Forum

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 02-10-2002, 19:56 Post: 35465
Duane



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 B7500 and a Log splitter

I was planning on building a 3pt hitch log splitter for my B7500. I had originally planned on running the splitter off the tractor hydraulics and using the loader valve for control, but now am questioning whether or not those hyraulics are powerful enough. The operator's manual shows the power steering pump capacity as being 2.6 gpm, while the 3P (which I assume is the 3pt hitch) has a flow capacity of 4.4 gpm. First of all, aren't the 3pt hitch, power steering, and loader hydraulics run off the same pump? And that pump being located on the back of the injector pump? If so, how is there different flow capacities? Most log splitters I have seen have at least 11 gpm flow for say a 20 or 22 ton splitter. I was thinking that maybe a PTO pump would be the way to go. Which brings me to my second question... if I go with a PTO pump, how big of a pump and what size of a ram should I buy to maximize splitting force and speed? The tractor has 16 PTO horsepower, and runs at either 540 or 960 rpm. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
By the way, this board brought me to the purchase of my B7500 a year and a half ago, which now has 165 hours on it... best purchase I have ever made... thankyou.






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 02-10-2002, 22:20 Post: 35468
Peters

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 B7500 and a Log splitter

The power steering pump and the general hydrallic pump for implements are split on most new tractors. This is to prevent the power steering from being effected by the loads placed on the system by the implements. Ie if you have a full load in the bucket lifting it you do not want the power steering to suddenly get heavy.
Smaller tractors do not have that large of an oil reservoir. Log splitters require a lot of force and therefore a large cylinder. This then requires a lot oil. It is better to have a PTO pump.
If you are going to build your own system I think it is nicer to have a vertical unit so you don't have to lift the blocks onto the rail. I am not sure that you can do this with a 3 pt arrangement.






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 02-11-2002, 05:46 Post: 35473
TomG

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 B7500 and a Log splitter

I imagine that most PTO pump manufacturers publish recommended PTO HP ranges for their pumps. I'd probably look for as big of one as I could find that is recommended for 16 HP.

I think the tractor hydraulics would make for a very slow splitter. Peter's comment about reservoir size should be noted. Splitter cylinders end to be large diameter and long. They contain a lot of oil when extended. All the oil goes back in the reservoir when they're retracted. It's possible that a small tractor reservoir would go from too full to too low during operation. Another small reservoir problem is that if the work is heavy, the oil may overheat.

My Ford 1710 PS and remotes work off a single pump. There is a priority valve that robs flow from the remotes to feed the PS as required. Under heavy loads, the loader slows down when steering. Some of the JD 4000-series compacts have two pumps. However, they have a design where flow from the PS pump is combined with the remote pump during heavy remote use. The idea is that flow decreases at high pressures, and hydraulic operations slow under heavy loads. The design speeds up heavy work, but at the expense of PS. I understand the design, but I'm not sure I'd like to give up PS for more loader speed. Turning with a heavy loader load seems exactly when you want PS.






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 02-11-2002, 07:13 Post: 35477
Duane



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 B7500 and a Log splitter

OK, you guys sold me on the PTO setup, and it makes perfect sense that if you pump enough oil out of the reservior to fill a 4" or 5" diameter cylinder 24" long you would end up nearly running the thing dry. Am I correct in saying that all the hydraulics on a B7500 hydro run out of the same reservior? Just wondering. Question: Northern tool has a pump that runs 11.4 gpm @ 540 rpm, and I was wondering if it would be better to get that pump and run the PTO on the 1000 rpm setting but throttle the engine down to 1436 rpm to get the 540 on the PTO. Seems like it would be better if I didn't have to have the tractor tached out the whole time. Only thing is, does the tractor have enough hp at 1436 rpm. None of the product descriptions have any hp ratings, and I have never seen a hp curve chart for a B7500. Only thing I can go by is a complete log splitter Northern has... it has 11 gpm pump with only 5 hp gas engine... seems like i should have at least 5 hp at 1436 rpm. Probably could go with even a bigger pump... Hey I don't know.. I am just guessing here... maybe you all could share some engineering knowledge with me about all this. I don't want to end up with a splitter that has a 2 minute cycle time or something. Laughing out loud.






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 02-11-2002, 07:49 Post: 35478
Duane



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 B7500 and a Log splitter

OK, here's one more factor to throw in... what about system pressure? How do you determine what it's gonna be? Maybe I am getting in over my head here with technical stuff... Just found a site on the net that gives alot of info about fluid power... It says that "For every 1hp of drive, 1gpm @1500 psi can be achieved." I see Northern has a 30 ton logsplitter with 22gpm pump, and 13 hp engine. According to the 1hp drive=1gpm@1500psi theory, they should only get 13 gpm @1500psi... soes this mean the thier operating pressure is lower on this splitter than 1500psi? If I could run a 30 ton splitter off my little tractor I'd be as happy as a clam as I generally use about 8 cords of wood per year. Splitting by hand has become tiresome. PLease help.






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 02-11-2002, 08:00 Post: 35479
Duane



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 B7500 and a Log splitter

Alright, my brain is frying... One more stupid question, then I'll quit. I see most of the log splitters have 2 stage pumps... for quick movement of the ram under no load situations. PTO pumps do not appear to have that option... will this drastically affect the speed of my splitter? Perhaps having a 2 stage pump is what allows you to run these big pumps with what seems like relatively small engines?






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 02-11-2002, 13:48 Post: 35488
Murf



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 B7500 and a Log splitter

Actually Duane I hate to waste a good brain fry, but your a little off on one point, filling the cylinder doesn't take as much fluid as you think. The reason is that the cylinder is not empty to start with. there are two volumes to a hydraulic (or air) two way cylinder, one each side of the piston, to allow two direction force. The difference between the two sides is equal to the displacement of the ROD only. As an example, if you have a splitter with a 4" x 24" cylinder with a 2" cylinder rod. the fluid required to move the cylinder full stroke is not (for ease of explanation) NOT 4" bore x 24" of stroke worth of fluid, it is 4" of bore minus the 2" of rod x 24" of stroke. Or in real numbers, it is not, 4" x 24" or 1206.3715789785601 cubic inches, it is 4" - 2" x 24" or 904.7786842339201 cubic inches because 2" x 24" or 301.59289474464 cubic inches of displacement is created by the cylinder rod itself which is inside the cylinder when it is in the retracted position. Clear as mud, huh? The Tylenol is on me, Laughing out loud. Best of luck.






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 02-11-2002, 13:58 Post: 35489
Duane



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 B7500 and a Log splitter

Actually murf, that makes perfect sense... I told you my brain was fried. I would still like some hard numbers on pump and ram size to fit my tractor though. I mentioned earlier that I would prefer to run the tractor at lower throttle other than wide open... I have rethought that... the bigger, stronger, and faster the log splitter, the better. Like I said, I generally burn 8 chord per year myself, not to mention there are 3 other households in my family who would benefit from this thing.






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 02-11-2002, 20:26 Post: 35503
John Mc



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 B7500 and a Log splitter

Duane -

Just a thought... I don't own a logsplitter (yet), but I've been following a lot of threads on them, here and on other boards. There are a lot of arguments being made for a stand alone splitter (not driven by tractor hydraulics or PTO)... and the more wood you split, the more sense those arguments seem to make. The main point is: do you want to tie up your tractor in one place while you split the wood? You could be hauling in more logs, holding a FEL full of logs at a convenient height to feed the splitter, hauling off split wood, etc. all while leaving your splitter set up (and running, if you've got some help).

Not trying to talk you out of a good project... building one sounds like fun. But perhaps you might want to design it with an easy conversion in mind to a separate gas engine powered unit, just so your options are open down the road.






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 02-11-2002, 21:27 Post: 35508
Duane



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 B7500 and a Log splitter

John,

Those are very good points, and I have already considered them. I cut everything up and haul it to my place here where I unload into a lean-to shed on my garage and later stack it. My point is, that when I am ready to split, I am generally not doing anything else... except stacking the wood 5 feet from where I am splitting.

The splitter I am going to build will be a trailer type, that can go horizontal or vertical. Got it all figured out how to build, just need some numbers. And yes, it is going to be a fun project... Everytime I build something like this I generally go a little overkill and make things a bit stronger than they need to be... kind of like Tim Allen on Tool Time. Laughing out loud






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