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JD Ten Series Rebate Question

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jimbopa
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 54 PA
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2002-04-17          37529

Say you negotiated your best deal, ordered your ne ten series and are waiting for it to come in. Then on JD web site they now offer a rebate up to 1200.00 on a ten series with two implements. Is this a rebate directly from Deere to the customer, or just a knock off from the dealer and hoiw do i approach the dealer about giving me the rebate.

I already negotiated a great deal, but the added 1200 would be even better. Do you think they have the flexibility to offer it? The way I look at it, he was making money before on the deal, he still is making the same money if he gives me the rebate.

Any imput is helpful


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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-04-17          37536

The rebate normally come directly from JD, There are two ways of distributing them to the dealer at time of sale or back to you after the sale. In either instance the rebate comes from JD and should not influence the dealer price. ....

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mikeB
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 37 CT
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2002-04-17          37543

just conferming peter's reply, he is correct. ....

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jimbopa
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 54 PA
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2002-04-17          37562

Guys, when I called deere they said it was up to the dealer. The rebate was not from them directly but to the dealer, some are and some are not participating according to deere. They have the program highlights on the website so I know the amount, just wonder if the dealer I ordered and am waiting on a unit from will squirm out and not knock off the additional moneys ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-04-17          37567

If it helps any mention that many of the competitors are offering deals right now. For example some of the Kioti models are coming with free rototillers or finish mowers. ....

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jimbopa
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 54 PA
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2002-04-18          37581

Kitio? Thanks but no thank, JD is the real deal. Higher resale, more versitale designs allow easy attachemnts,higher hp and pump cap, all around the best value out there. Try and sell a Kitio,Kubota, of new holland in the paper-not many takers ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-04-18          37587

I think you miss understood me. I was just trying to give you another chip to play if he does not want to provide the JD discount.
Personally I am not sure about the resale value. I have bought used JD in privates sales as the price vs time on the tractor and wear was the best. I would not call it a good deal for the person that first scrubbed the green paint.
My last purchase was a 99 JD 955 in excellent condition with less than 300 hrs for less than 1/2 the original list price.
Personally I have found the blue to be closest to list.
To be honest I looked for a long time. As fellow members on the board will attest I drive dealers nuts with questions. As an engineer, mechanic and scientist I check the new or used tractor the best I can. I have bought private in the dead of winter. There is not much activity in the south in winter (no snow). Why green deals? There is a difference between ask and sale price, tradein price and the price on the dealer lot for used tractors.
....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-04-18          37591

Regardless of the deal already struck, I would tell the dealer that he can participate in the rebate program or you will find someone who will. $1200 is a stack of green. One hook to watch for: you said the rebate is contingent on the purchase of a tractor and two implements. I would guess that those would have to be implements that are painted green. ....

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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2002-04-19          37658

i've looked at www.deere.com and find no reference to a rebate program -- where are you finding this program?
jim ....

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jimbopa
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 54 PA
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2002-04-20          37662

It under special offers, go to bottom of page and click more

here it is restated

COMPACT UTILITY TRACTORS
Special Introductory Offer:
New 4000 TEN Series Tractors
Up to $1,200.00 (U.S.) Off
- $700.00 (U.S.) off all 4000 TEN Series Tractors
- Add'l $200.00 (U.S.) off w/ purchase of 1 implement or
- Add'l $500.00 (U.S.) off w/ purchase of 2 implements
Disclaimer Information1.

Inventory Clearance:
New 4000 Series Tractors
Up to $2,000.00 (U.S.) Off
- $1,500.00 (U.S.) off all 4000 Series Tractors
- Add'l $200.00 (U.S.) off w/ purchase of 1 implement or
- Add'l $500.00 (U.S.) off w/ purchase of 2 implements
Disclaimer Information1.

Now until May 31, 2002 - 5.9% fixed-rate financing up to 60 months on all new 4000 TEN Series, 90 Series and 4000 Series Compact Utility Tractors. Disclaimer Information2.


UTILITY TRACTORS
Now until April 30, 2002 - choose one of the following financing options on all new 5000 TEN Series (45- to 75-PTO-hp) Tractors:
No interest for 24 months, followed by standard-rate financing,
2.4% fixed-rate financing up to 36 months,
2.9% fixed-rate financing up to 48 months, or
3.4% fixed-rate financing up to 60 months
Disclaimer Information1.

Now until April 30, 2002 - choose one of the following financing options on all new 5000 TWENTY Series (45- to 65-PTO-hp) and 05 Series (40- to 48-PTO-hp) Tractors:
No interest for 12 months, followed by standard-rate financing,
4.0% fixed-rate financing up to 36 months,
4.5% fixed-rate financing up to 48 months, or
5.0% fixed-rate financing up to 60 months
Disclaimer Information2.


GATOR® UTILITY VEHICLES
3.9% fixed-rate financing up to 36 months until May 31, 2002, on the following Gator Utility Vehicles: Gator 4x2, Trail Gator 4x2, Gator 6x4, Trail Gator 6x4, Gator 6x4 Diesel and Trail Gator 6x4 Diesel. Disclaimer Information.

More Special Offers







COPYRIGHT © 2002 DEERE & COMPANY About Our Site
....

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bigbukhntr
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 56 flower mound, texas
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2002-04-22          37699

hmmm...a john deere dealer not willing to work with the customer after the sale is made..what do u know?...are u people reading the same posts i am reading about the shoddy service from the dealers, the poor quality of the 4000 series tractors, especially the wheel bolt problems and deere's lack of cooperation with such....no wonder deere can charge so much, it seems they have such a loyal following no matter what they do or how they treat customers....but then again, maybe thats why there is only one j d dealer in ft. worth, none in dallas...while there are 8 Kubota dealers, 3 NH dealers, 4 MF dealers...i guess the market will eventually weed out the poor service dealers in the long run ...just my .02 worth, and by the way. once a Kubota or NH hits the newspaper here, if its in decent condition at a fair price, it'll be gone in a coupla days...i know because i spent about 6 mos. looking for good used tractors here in north texas...finally bought a new Kubota, and dont regret one bit....dont mean to knock deere too much, but a fact is a fact, and just read the posts on this board to get the real story, not the dealers story... ....

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thestraightdope
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2002-04-22          37706

I love this board, it's seems full of information, usually accurate info to boot.

But I need to speak my mind here. We have sold one heck of a bunch of 4000 tractors here since their introduction. We have had almost no problems, yes, there have been a few, but not what I would consider exceesive. We have heard of the wheel bolt problem, but have not expeirienced any. Truthfully, we have not had any dissatisfied customers at all. I do believe the complaints I have heard are vallid, But I am just reporting we have had none of these problems and in reality, very few warrenty claims. I have read all the service bulitins and realize that there must be some problems out there, I am just wondering why we have not experienced them. ....

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Mrethics
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana
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2002-04-22          37711

What ever happened to a mans word? If you have made your best deal (so you thought) and ordered the tractor, then take it. If the dealer didn't know about it when you "both" agreed to thr price, exactly what crime is he guilty of?

It does not hurt to ask, however. If Deere will honor the deal and the dealer will pass it on to you, then good for everyone. But he may chose to put the money in his pocket, which, buy the way is perfectly ethical, If he delivers the goods at the price both partys agreed to, he has held up his end of the bargain. I also must state here that it is perfrctly ethical to back out of an agreement witin 72 hours. This give you the leverage to make the dealer research the discount you have spokken of.

I have seen this happen every time I buy something. i always see it the next week a few dollars cheaper. But, I am a man of my word, and if I agreed to it, then I held up my end. ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-04-22          37715

Mrethics
I agree that if a deal has been struck and the value set then the price is the price, but is it ethical for a dealer not to tell the buyer about the incentives that the tractor company is running? Is not his duty to the customer to provide the customer with the best deal possible. A reputable tractor or auto dealer should not be like the used car saleman looking for the sucker. He should be looking to build a relationship with the customer, not trying to get the quick sale. I does him no good to have a disgruntled customer as one bad sale will do him far more harm than six satified customers will do him good. The disgruntled customer will talk the satisfied customers would unless asked.If the dealer does not know about the JD incentives than is not like malpractise? ....

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mrEthics
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2002-04-22          37720

You are right peters. If the dealer knew about it, he should have informed the customer. But as a dealer, I can swear on a stack of bibles that there are times when we do not know about a program until the day after a deal is made. Myself, I bend over backwards to honor the program, but if the factory will not back me up, I have honored it anyway, and believe it ir not, because of this, I have lost money on a deal or two. But I still say that a deal is a deal, and what happens after the fact is another issue. ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-04-22          37724

Incentives as described are normally predicated on delivery. Obviously the JD dealer could do one of two things. Rewrite the deal when the tractor come in, if the Jim buys the 2 pieces of equipment or not tell Jim about the deal and pocket the 1200 dollars. In one case he will have a happy customer in the other case he will have a disgruntled customer or no customer at all. What should he do?
As a dealer you are dealing with pieces of equipment all the time. This is much different than an individual that saves and buys a new tractor once in a life time or every 10-25 years. As a dealer some times you have to lose a little or break even to retain you name and customer support. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-04-23          37743

I have been ruminating on this question since yesterday, when I read the entries of someone who represented himself as a dealer and used terms such as ethics and honor and “a mans word”. These standards only apply to the poor hapless consumer though, because MrEthics states that if he can pull off a deal and keep the consumer in the dark about a FACTORY rebate, it is then ethical for the dealer to pocket the money. MrEthics implies that if he is caught in the act and somehow forced to cough up the FACTORY rebate that his profit goes out the door with it. This is the most convoluted, bass ackward pile of putrefied equine excrement I have seen recently.
The consumer is not able to access the manufacturer, in this case John Deere, in a direct fashion. He cannot buy any product or service directly form the manufacturer, but is eternally referred back to the dealer network. The dealer he is referred to may be the only dealer in hundreds of miles, and is in essence the emissary of the manufacturer. In other words, the dealer speaks for the larger company, and from the consumer’s point of view, IS the company. Under these circumstances the only realistic choice the customer has is to change tractor colors.
Honor and ethics apply to those in positions of power and authority. It is a code of behavior that governs those in a position to potentially abuse others. The code is about doing the right thing when there is a choice between right and wrong. If the manufacturer you profess to represent offers a customer rebate and you the dealer either will not pursue in the customers name, or you secretly and gleefully keep it, then you Mr. Dealer have violated the implicit and expected trust placed in you and no longer deserve that consumers trust or business. And if you come to my house I am going to lock up the good silverware.
....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2002-04-23          37747

This very thing happened to me. I made a deal on a JD 4610 with FEL. Of course he had to order it. In the mean time I go to the JD website and see this new rebate deal posted. It wasn't there until a few days after I made the deal. So I call the dealer and ask him about it. He said he'd have to check into it but would call and let me know. The next day he calls and said they would knock off the $900. rebate. I'm satisfied!

By the way. To the guy who was knocking the 4000 series tractors. I bought a 2wheel drive 4600 in 98 and I have not had one bit of trouble with it. Except I should have got a 4wheel drive.

Billy ....

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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2002-04-23          37765

Whoa, there, Mark. I"m not a dealer; I've had my battles with dealers, but I think you're throwing grenades where they're not deserved.
I've read and reread the comments of Mrethics, and he tried to emphasize that he as a dealer does go to bat for his customer. And what good businessman wouldn't? Peters commented about we customers buy infrequently so getting the best deal is important, but its also important for any dealer's longevity to optimize your buying power so you'll buy implements, spread positive recommendations, etc. I read this attitude into Mrethics' posting.
And if I may, I think what lit your fuse was his comments about the dealer pocketing a rebate. Yeah, bad idea and poor judgement to justify, but i believe his point was that that the customer wasn't "cheated" out of it. Rather, that if the customer was satisfied with the previously contracted price, any additional discounting applied retroactively doesn't automatically pass to the purchaser. It ain't necessarily a good move for customer relations, however.
By the way, I don't believe JD (or auto mfgr, or any other OEM) would apply (and pay) a rebate on any purchase ordered prior to the effective date of a rebate.
Anyone would like to discover that he can save an extra $900 or whatever. But as in everything else in life, its all timing.
jim
PS -- maybe its Mrethics' handle that sits sideways in your craw ?
(that's an attempt at humor -- remember what your wife tells you...) ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-04-24          37766

Sorry Jim, I side with Mark. "Mrethical's" original post also lit my fuse, but I reread his original post and wrote something to elicit a more balanced objective response, which he did.
I might be using simple psychology, but I would call the first post, the true prospective.
In smaller centers you see these type of business men. We had a NH dealer locally that needed his pound of flesh on every deal. It always seemed like he was doing you a favour to deal with you. You buy a Bush Hog cutter and then after the deal is made he charges an arm and leg for delivery etc., the competitive dealer charged nothing. Luckly the farmers wouldn't put up with the grief and he sold out to real good people after the business migrated away.
Unfortunately, not everyone will or can travel miles to avoid a problem dealer. In small towns a you can often get someone doing relatively well despite the fact that if he had any competition he would be out of business. ....

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jimbopa
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 54 PA
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2002-04-24          37773

Guys,

Important point, when I made the deal with the dealer I asked about rebates or special low rate financing. Only 5.9 was available at the time for 60 months but we agreed that if better rates or a rate bate came out before i took deliver I would get it.

The way I look at it-we negotiated a deal, he has a certain profit margin he is happy with and we both agree. So what is different now, he would still maintain the same margin he did in the first place only as he is just passing the rebate along to me. I am waiting to see what he decides. My tractor is in and he was going to check on it. In this economy 29K for a tractor-4310,ehydro,48 hoe,belly mower, and 430 loader is a lot of money-I just cut my grass with the thing. In 10 years I only put 342 hours on my 755. I can walk away without batting an eye. One important rule-the customer is king especially in a marketplace like we have today.

On the Deere issue, without question they make the best tractor out there today. Sure I may be able to save 1k or 2K by going to a New Holland or Kubota-but I have friends that went that route, some are in business and they depend on there machines-both have had problems with the New Holland and Kubota and in one case they were waiting two months for parts. In my case I shopped them all, in the end the deere was actually less expensive than the new holland and kubota

Do yourself a favor and drive them, they are both cubersome-on the new holland you need to use the back of your heal to shift. Not to mention the attachements-JD is by far the easiest.

Look at resale value-no way anyone can tell me JD doesnt hold their value-I bought my unit with 10 hours (jd755 with loader and belly mower) in 1992 for $10,500. and that's what I am getting on the trade-try that with a kubota or new holland. This is after I negotiated the cash deal so no used car tricks here.

Americans chose deere, we bleed green, we love them-its like Chevy

....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-04-24          37780

Although I own green and red. I am not stuck on the green. Looking at the used pricing on the the machinerylink my 955 with loader should be priced around 17K. I paid 11.5 a year ago. If someone offered me 17K I would wrap a bow on it.
The used list on the 955 is 77% of new list. A comparible NH is 80% of new list price. You would have paid 1600 dollars more for the green based on list prices. Based on used book prices you paid 1k more green for the ownership over 3 years. On that basis you paid 2600 for the honour of driving green.
You are right it is the same logic as driving a most chevys. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-04-24          37781

Jim, I went to the bathroom and checked. You are right there was something stuck in my.. um... err... my craw. I guess you can take the cop off the street but it is a little harder to take the street out of the cop. I still get "missile lock", and want to go straight at the problem. It's a little hard to lose the behaviors that kept me alive in some rather harsh and violent environments. Clearly, Peters' approach is a bit more reasonable. Maybe I will learn a little more patience from you guys. Meanwhile my wife still calls me "her Dudley" (as in Do-right) and I promise I won’t bite any good guys. ....

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warren
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 54 Iowa
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2002-04-24          37794

My dealer will honer the warenty work but won't tell you that their is a fix if it wasn't for this board i wouldn't found out about the front end problem it took a while to get the regional sales person to get his act toghter but finally got it fix and what a differance in turing. So keep it up on the problems if any i look at this sight often. great job.
Warren ....

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bigbukhntr
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 56 flower mound, texas
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2002-04-25          37817

Americans CHOSE Deere? give me a break..most expensive doesnt mean better...we might have chose deere before we had any good alternatives..but that was yrs ago..and Americans ain't buying the 150HP machines our grandfathers used to buy....if u got $10500 for your used 755, u can bet it is worth $14K, but then maybe your friendly dealer (the one u are griping about with the rebate) is probably doing u a favor and giving u overvalue for your tradein while giving u the new tractor at cost..as long as there are people like u who refuse to even consider other brands, there will be dealers who provide shoddy service and stay in business...
to the straightdope...u sound like a reputable dealer who takes care of his customers, and i believe u will always have a good buisiness and should be able to make a decent profit without gouging your customers, u seem to realize that there is much competition for the consumers dollar nowadays, and u merely provide a product...its the service that keeps us coming back, and u seem to provide that service honorably
just my opinion, and by the way, my Kubota dealer mentioned the rebate up front... ....

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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2002-04-25          37820

There's no need in acting like an ass, bigbukhntr ....

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MrEthics
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2002-04-26          37863

Ok folks............time to set my record straight. I have never let a customer go out the door with out informing him of any discounts, rebates, incentives, ......whatever. I never have, and I never will.

All consumers want price protection, we give it to them when we can. Sometimes we cannot. We are human, we make mistakes, believe it or not, sometimes incentives change and we dealers do not know about it soon enough to inform the customer.
Case in point. The customer lives 90 miles away during the week, he comes to the country on weekends, he was fully informed when he left my store that the prices quaoted would not last forever. I have left many messages on his machine in the city and the country home, and have gotten no response, the customer was fully informed on the limited availability of the tractor model in question, he was also fully informed the price of the new "ten" series did not have all the incentives as the "00" series. As I stated in my previous post, I have always bent over backwards to help out my customer. He pulled the trigger and it was too late, the old ones are gone........

He was offended when I would not give him the new one at the old price, he further added insult to injury, by canceling his order on a lawnmower(he had sighned a purhcase order on that equipment in the begining).

This was the day I had just had when typeing my first post. I still say.... a deal is a deal. A man's word is only as good as the man who speaks it. If he made his best deal and says "let's do it". Is it too much to ask for him to hold up his end of the bargain? I don't think so.

I appoligize if I offended anyone, none was intended. ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-04-26          37867

Mr Ethics;
I agree that there are times when the customer is not right, but I am afraid in my opinion there are more times when sales people do not know the product, prices, incentives or misrepresent themselves or the product. As an automotive engineer I would say it is very seldom that I have not caught an auto salesperson in a lie.
It has been a nearly 30 years since I have been on the selling side of the equation, but like many of us I have been on the wrong end of some shadey deals. About 15 years ago I was even called into small claims court over some lies that a Toyota salesperson had feed another customer.
As I rib a friend, who owns a used car lot, there are only 3 things you need to know about a used car sales person, "They lie, They lie!, THEY LIE!!!" Fortunately tractor sale people have a little better record with me. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-04-26          37868

Mr. E. Thanks for responding and setting the record straight. It is clear that you were having a really smurfy time on that particular day. We have all been there.
The original question revolved around jimbo asking if we (the jury) thought a manufacturers rebate should apply to a tractor ordered but not yet delivered. Most of us thought so and would expect the dealer to present such a case to the manufacturer on behalf of the customer. It is clear now that you are the kind of soul that would do just that. We got a little cross-wired when you sounded like you were not sure just who actually owned the rebate. I have had days when the things I wrote on this board didn’t make much sense to me in retrospect, or the folks reading it, so if I forgive myself I must also cut you so slack.
Now on to your “customer”: You are correct, he acted in an unethical manner. No, he was an a--hole. He was a day late and a dollar short and he expected you to pay for his self-centered view of the world. Next time you run into some one like that, remind him of the seven P’s. Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. You may quote me if you wish. Stay with us on this board please. We could all benefit from your experience. Mark
....

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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2002-04-26          37872

Awww. Ain't all this sweetness just smurfy?
We'll just kiss and make-up now, ya-hear?

Now for some old axioms:
- Let the buyer beware.
- Forewarned is forearmed.
- A fool is soon parted with his money.
- The only person who has your best interest in mind is you.
- If you dance with the devil... i forget how this ends...

If it isn't clear where i'm going, i'll expand:
If your lack of knowledge about the dealer or the purchase (which as Peters noted may be once-in-10-15 years-or-life) results in your feeling like you didn't get the best deal or leave you dissatisfied with the dealer, then look in the mirror for someone to blame.
I've done dumb deals and regretted several impulse purchases or attempts to "work" a deal to lower the cost.
And I'll probably err again looking for a good deal, but won't get an ulcer over it.
jim ....

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DRankin
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2002-04-27          37893

Jim. refer to post # 37820 ....

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keith rose
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2002-04-28          37906

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but ther is no reason to act like a jerk if you dont agree with it. I think we are all adults here(???) and we should try and act like adults (may be tough for some). As far as the original quote, it is human nature to try and ge the best possible deal, the bottom line is in the end if you are not happy don't buy it. As far as green,blue,red or orange go they all make a fine product and if you are happy with what you bought thats all that matters. Deere wouldn't survive this long on name alone. I bought blue I did my homework and in my opinion I liked the New Holland the best( 1yr. old 150 hrs. on it no problems). Anyway good luck in whatever your decision is. ....

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bigbukhntr
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Posts: 56 flower mound, texas
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2002-04-28          37916

so do i guess u drive a john deere billy pasmore?

and unlike jim, if i give my opinion, which differs from yours and jim's, then i am being an ass huh?

u guys can be wrong and we can still be friends... ....

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grizzily79
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13 Montana
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2002-05-10          38445

I have been trying to find where the rebates that are referred to above are located on the site. I have tried numerous times to find and cannot, can someone please provide a link? Thanks! ....

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jimbopa
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 54 PA
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2002-05-10          38449

just look under financing then click special offeres, here is the link


http://customer.deere.com/golfandturfprofessionals/specialoffers/gc_specials.html ....

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ROBDEERE
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2002-05-10          38451

I think there are a lot of good points made on this post,but I have not heard any one yet look at it from the point of view that it would be in the best intrest of the dealer to admit there is a rebate. If the dealer does tell the customer, The dealer is generating more sales possibly up to $8000 or so for a hoe . Most likly not that much for every implement. Even the most common of all (loader) is going to be roughly $2500 - 3500 depending on model and where you buy. It's the initial $500 the dealer is after to pocket. If the dealer looked at it from the point of view that if you tempt the customer to buy green then we will give you $500 back it may sway a certain percentage of customers to buy green. then tempt them to buy a implement or two. not every one needs to buy a implement mabey they want to use the same 3ph attatchnents from their old tractor, or look for used attatchments that fit all 3ph. I bet most people just buy the usual tractor loader deal this is where the customer and the dealer could walk away happy.
From the customer stand point "the more you buy the more you save" and from the dealer side sell what you can because there is a lot of competition out there. If you get greedy then that could be a lost sale because the customer may very well go down the street to somebody of another color. I feel lucky that my dealer is honest. I think he would tell me. and yes he would try to sell me on implements but once again, he only kicked back $500 on tractor to get me to buy. And then $200 for first implement, and another $300 for the second implement. what more could be said about it? ONLY ONE THING this goes to you "thestraightscoop" I would not buy a tractor from you if you were the last green dealer on this planet. I wonder do you realy sell all the tractors that you claim? If you pulled your so called ethicks act on me and cheated me out of $1200 big ones I would tell every person with a ear about your sales act. In fact I would apply for a publick picket/demonstration and stand outside of your store every saturday morning during peak season. just to inform your customers of your ethicks act. How many lost sales would that be? My final .02 worth it sounds like you spend more time looking for ways to cheat good people of good money. I think you need to spend more of your efforts and energy on trying to increase sales the old fashon way. Earn it with respect hard work and loyalty to Ethicks
....

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Haras Lucero
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10 Kingston, TN
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2002-05-10          38456

I just bought a 4310. Looked at lots of others (Kubota, Kioti, New Holland, Long, and Massey). When I walk into a place looking to spend a few thousand dollars I expect to be welcomed. My experience (limited to dealers around Kingston, TN):

Deere One: Met within seconds of entering; saw first available salesman; salesman very knowledgable; asked about my needs; offered alternatives. Ended up buying from these guys.

Deere Two: Small operation; owner was chief salesman and not in. Part-time salesman did his best to answer my questions; took my name and said owner would call. I called before owner did (to be fair, I said I would not be available on a Monday, but got free a bit early and called him on that day). Bought from Deere One based upon selection on hand and service department.

New Holland Dealer One (also sold Longs): Met promptly; salesman not very knowledgeable; was condescending in his questions about my needs; could not give a realistic delivery date on the model I selected.

New Holland Dealer Two: Entered showroom and wandered around looking at brocures for 15 minutes (time: 11:45 a.m.). No one at parts desk; no one in either sales office; could not see anyone in shop; did hear one voice talking on the phone somewhere in building. Left without talking to anyone.

Kubota Dealer: Replay of New Holland Two experience (time: 1:15 p.m.).

Kioti Dealer: Entered showroom and looked around. After a few minutes the parts guy asked if he could help me. Told him I was looking for a tractor and he said the salesman was on the phone, pointing to a gentleman in filthy clothing talking on the phone in a small office. (Note: I realize that farm equipment is not always a place for the overly fastidious, but this guy looked like a homeless type from N.Y. or D.C., complete with two days stubble.) The parts guy then disappeared. The guy on the phone pointedly ignored me for 15 minutes. I then left.

Massey Dealer: Went in and saw both salesmen were busy, so I started looking at brochures. After about 5 minutes a guy came out of what appeared to be their lunch room, appologized for keeping me waiting, said he was not in sales but would do his best to help me, then showed me what I was looking for. He was not completely knowledgable, but either consulted a publication or his computer to answer my questions. I thanked him and left just as the thunderstorm hit!!!!!!

I realize that things can get busy and that I am not the only (or even the most important) human on Urth!!! But, still, it does not take a moment to say, "Be with you as soon as I can." Further, a "laissez faire" sales attitude often will be repeated in the service department. THAT is a major concern to me.

I took the time to research models, financing, offers, etc. before I walked into the first showroom. After the price was quoted I asked about rebates; I was told that they were reflected in the price quote. That appeared "jake" to me.

So that is why I now own Green Paint!!!!!!

Bill Kambic

P.S. I think the saying is, "When you dance with the Devil, he always leads!"

....

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ROBDEERE
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2002-05-11          38471

Bill well spoken words. I could not agree more, you pay dearly for Deere, pun intended, But for the most part the added cost is returned in added value. Not in the physical
product itself, but the often overlooked service, ie: best in the industry for parts, typicaly most knowledgeble in product line, and matching there product to customers actual needs. Resale value, Manuals, literature. That is why I own green paint, and probably will never go down the street for another color.
....

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jimbopa
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 54 PA
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2002-05-11          38472

Bill,
like the post, its says a lot about the way we wish to be treated. Today is my D day with the JD Dealer. I too ordered a 4310 but also got a 48 backhoe, for the past six weeks they could not get it to fit. I sent them a letter canceling it and the same day they got the letter the unit now fit. It turned out to be the bracket on the BACK of the tractor not the backhoe bracket or tire stants or stablizers they orginally taught. At one point I went up and the service manger said they were going to cut off the metal tabs that were rubbing on the back wheels. I got pissed and said no way-something is wrong and you need to find out why this won't fit and not make it fit. The other problem, when I was at the shop, one of the workers was moving the arm of the backhoe. I understand these things are heavy but he was strapping chains on it and trying to lift it over to my machine. Well it bounce off the ground a few times and then he resorted to plan B. He must have had at least a 4th grade education because he started trying to pick up the unit with the fork lift. After seeing him push and drag the arm over to my machine I got really pissed and went into see the owner. Its like buying a car, a 29K dollar car and I don't want the thing all banged up. He did not seem, to get it. After all its just a tractor, but he is dealing with a guy that keeps his 755 in a garage, only has 340 hours on it in 10 years and changes the oil and waxes the unit three times a year. Sure I bang it up, but I bang it up. I paid for it so let me be the one to bang it up not some kid at a dealership that did not fork over 29K.

In closing I say D day, because today I call the dealer back and tell him that I will take the unit. Provided everything works and there no modifications. Also either he gives me the $1200. rebate that Deere says I am entitled too and have a coupon from them for same or I walk.

I have three other dealers I can get the same price at and they will honor the rebate.

I am in sales and have been for 18 years, the customer is not always right but you better make them feel like they are being treated that way. In this economy, who is spending 29K on tractors, I need my head examined but with all purchases its an emotional decision. My emotion to purchase was made in Jan, nearly four months later I don't have the same mindset. I will now do the deal or walk away its his choice. I will let youi know how it turns out.

I was going to pay all cash, but am now concerned that if there are problems I will not have any leverage, so I will finance at least 10K with Deere Credit. If I have a problem they will ahve a problem. ....

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Robdeere
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2002-05-11          38478

TIME FOR A MAJOR APOLOGY TO POSTING/SCREENNAME
"(THESTRAIGHTDOPE)" I put my big size 11.5 foot in my mouth,and was so quick to react to the comment on another individual indicating it was ok to try and hide the $1200 rebate from the customer that I actually put in the wrong name on who to reply to. At this time I would like to name who it was intended for , but I think I have already said one to many names, Besides 99% of the people on this board are sharp enough to figure out who it was really intended for. ONCE AGAIN MY APOLOGY

....

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grizzily79
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13 Montana
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2002-05-11          38491

Thanks Haras for posting experience.

I have been looking to purchase a 4600 Compact Utility Tractor, my dealer would not budge on price and never mentined the rebate. He also further stated that he would be surprised if I found this tractor at a better price with Loader and blade. Well, I think I have - in Bent, Oregon of all places with the dealer willing to ship with another load of equipment going on to Colorado. Even with this, I am saving money, this is even on a tractor that a 2001 model. The difference is worth the extra effort.

This is my fourth John Deere purchase and I usually pay cash, however, a comment in a post above, also makes me think twice about having some leverage. The $10K in financing sounds like this could be leverage if I need it later as well.

Any ideas on what would be the best rotatiller for this model and price? ....

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THESTRAIGHTDOPE
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2002-05-11          38494

ROB,
appoligy accepted. I had re read my post trying to figure out what someone had read into my typeing. I also re read some posts in response to mrethics replies.

I gotta be honest here. None of his posts mention hideing a rebate..or any other incentive from a customer before the handshake...it only mentions what happens after the handshake. And that is the big difference between hoest people and dishonest people. He also mentioned that the customer does have some time to back out if he feels it is a bad deal.

some of you folks came down on this guy pretty hard.

In our free society, customers have the right to choose who they do bussness with. Believe it or not, dealers have the same rights. They also have the right to set their own prices, just as the customer has the right to set his.

There is no reason to show our tempers. If the price is too high.......go down the road. There is no reason to throw a fit........c'mon......a picket line????because you payed too much???

We all need to keep our heads here, cooler minds will prevail.

Remember, I work at a dealership, and from this expeirience I will assure you that we take great pride in making sure customers are aware of any incentives. But...there is not a day that goes by that does not have a story of someone getting a cheaper price in the next town.

We have lost sales because of this, however, we are aware of that. We also follow up on lost sales, we want to know why they do business elsewhere. We have found that the people who shop on price only will be back, again looking for a cheaper price on another purchase. Sometimes we can work with them...sometimes we can't.

It's easy to sell tractors.......it's harder to do it when you want happy customers and a proffitable business.

The first thing I learned about sales...........You cannot keep everyone happy.......no matter what,you can't sell to everyone.

We do our best here...we are proud of that. We have many repeat customers and most have been with us for many generations.

so please..........lt's alll lighten up a bit ........OK??



....

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jimbopa
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 54 PA
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2002-05-11          38498

GRiz79

The 460, all the left over units have up to a 2,000 rebate if you buy two implements. The ten series maxes out at 1200. On the financing, I did 10K at 5.9 % which is JD special program at 192.00 per month. I just figure since its a new model, If I have problems I hcan hold up payment until they resolve it-yes it works with JD finance because i used it before. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2002-05-11          38507

Lighten up? Excuse Me? Let's review the context and forget the personalities involved for a moment.
Joe Blow orders a tractor. He and his dealer agree on a price, or maybe more to the point, they agree on how much the dealer must make in profit to keep the doors open and food on the table at home. Before the tractor is delivered, before the dealer pays a nickel to the manufacturer, who knows, but maybe even before the damn thing is built, the manufacturer offers a CONSUMER rebate. Notice this is not a dealer incentive. It is addressed, public and dirty, to the consumer, and is intended to stimulate sales. Furthermore, it is acknowledged by everybody involved that the dealer is still making the agreed upon profit. And we also learn that the manufacturer will pay the rebate money to the dealer, who must then pass it on to the consumer. I have brushed aside the question of whether the dealer will find the time and energy to apply to the manufacturer for the money. Twelve hundred bucks? You can bet the kids milk money that one way or another the money will issue forth.
So now the question:

If the consumer is not well informed enough to ask for the rebate, before putting ink to the deal, is it ethical for the dealer to keep the windfall?

If I were investigating the complaint as a police officer, I would have to take a real hard read on the local theft statutes. In Alaska we had a criminal provision that made it illegal retain lost, mislaid or misdirected money, properties or instruments. I wouldn’t guarantee that an overworked District Attorney’s Office would take a case such as this, but the decision would be bolstered by the fact that “retention” at this level (greater than $500.00) constitutes a Class C Felony. If I were still toting a badge and a gun, I would take the following steps:
1)I would try to convince the errant dealer to settle the case.
2)If he refused I would hand carry the case to the DA along with any past history of Police complaints and/or criminal history on the suspect.
3)If the DA turned it down, I would refer the conumer to the Small Claims Court where I would expect him to win a judgment and reimbursement for his court costs. I would also recommend contact with the Better Business Bureau and the city or country business license folks.
4)I would then do what ever I could do to assist in the execution of the judgment, such as going to the business and confiscating the contents of the cash register until such a time as the judgment was satisfied.

Sound harsh? Oh well. You pays you dime and takes your chances. Or I guess in this case you take some else’s dime and take your chances. That is my experienced $.02
....

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DRankin
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2002-05-11          38508

And I forgot to add this: I thank God every day that I am retired and do not have to deal with this stuff anymore. ....

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Peters
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2002-05-11          38511

Et al - see above.
The saying is,"There is a sucker born every minute", but suckers are made, not born. None of us catch all the complexities of this world, we can help each other or passively watch the person be taken, but it take a different sort to, as the Brits say politely, "Have the person bend over and roger him."
I guess I would place some of the tactics used by so called salemen/dealers in the third catagory. Prolonged, short or attempted the feeling of being violated is about the same.
I find it funny that the salemen/dealers want to stand back an claim sanctity, like the clergy.
Me thinks like the catholic clergy. ....

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grizzily79
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13 Montana
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2002-05-12          38528

JimPopa

Thanks for the information!

I am waiting on the dealer to locate a 4600 /4610 and then will purchase. You can't beat 5.9% either.

Still trying to find out what people give for mowers,seem kind of high $3500.

Hanging in there, had some snow last week, hope the weather.

JR ....

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Haras Lucero
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10 Kingston, TN
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2002-05-12          38531

Mark, just a couple of comments.

I do work in a DA's office as part-time volunteer (I am a retired member of the State Bar of Texas)

I would want to read the terms and conditions of the rebate/incentive before I made any final decision. However, based upon your scenario, I do not see a crime.

If the manufacturer wanted the incentive to go to the customer, they could send it there. If they wanted it to go to the dealer, that's where it would go (and, seemingly, where it went). It's style as a "consumer rebate" would not affect my call, because it went to the dealer and was, in effect, a "dealer incentive." (Note that I am looking at the substance, not the form.) Absent some other facts (i.e., a clear directive that rebates were to be made to the customer by the dealer as agent of the manufacturer), the money that the dealer gets from the manufacturer is his.

Remember, too, that in a criminal prosecution the state must prove each and every element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. That is a very heavy burden and I don't see any DA doing that here (unless the defense attorney is either asleep or brain dead).

My advice to Joe would be to consult a private attorney and see if there is a civil remedy.

I doubt that a valid civil claim could be made by Joe. He and the dealer entered into a valid, binding contract. Neither had knowledge of what would happen subsequently, so neither had any duty to disclose or change their behavior. As between the dealer and Joe, the deal was done when they shook hands. Joe got exactly what he bargained for. If he wanted to bargain about some future event, he was free to do so. If he did not, he must live with the bargain he made.

Now, that's the law (IMO). If I were Joe and I learned of this I would ask about the rebate. If the dealer were "on the square" then I would think he would make an adjustment. If he did not, then Joe is free to take his trade elsewhere in the future. And to tell all his friends and neighbors what happened. (Note, he doesn't get to call the dealer a "crook" or "scoundral" as that might be defamatory.) He does get to recite the facts as he knows them and let others draw their own conculsions.

I am sure my answers will not make you happy, but I believe they are as accurate as I can make them.

Bill Kambic

World's Oldest Law Clerk, 9th Judicial District Attorney General's Office, Kingston, TN
....

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DRankin
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2002-05-12          38534

Did I mention my wife calls me Dudley? I bow to superior expertise. ....

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Peters
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2002-05-12          38537

Sorry, Mark you never would have made it as a mountie. They always get there man. ....

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Haras Lucero
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2002-05-12          38539

In my lifetime I have both prosecuted and defended Snidely Whiplash (different phases though; not like Ned Ravine). I don't always like my answers (and neither did my clients, officers, superiors, etc.). Still, better to be accurate than liked, I guess!

Dudley Doright was always one of my favorites. My wife sometimes gets upset with me for watching Dudley, George of the Jungle, and Superchicken late nights on the Cartoon Channel.

Just another sign of Peter Pan Syndrome, I guess!!!

Bill Kambic

Working on Childhood Number Four ....

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DRankin
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2002-05-13          38556

Peters: Rest assured that I got them eventually..... for something. It may have been for Littering or peeing on a dumpster or my favorite.... Mopery With Intent to Gawk. But as Bill could tell you the real trick is to prove intent. If your full time occupation was holding up lamp posts, it was a usefull tool. Never could find the right code section for that one but I knew it was in there somewhere. ....

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thestreightdope
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2002-05-13          38563

gee folks.....seems we have stirred things up a bit...now we have the legal dept. involved.

the key factor that most...most.....most.....(most does not mean all) who have responded to the dealer keeping any factory sponsored discounts seem to keep forgetting is the signature...if you have signed on the line, you have agreed to terms.

If you have not signed, you have agreed to nothing, and you may head down the road.

And I must add.......again......if you have signed, Mr.ethics stated that you have time to back out.

What is all the complaining about?
....

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MRethics
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2002-05-13          38564

note to haras:

Thank you, you understand my point.
We have "backed up" on deals in the past, and made incentives available even when they did not apply. But there were a few times when we could not, as much as I hate it...this stuff happens.

Please let me repeat myself:

WE HAVE OFFERED INSENTIVES THAT DID NOT APPLY WHEN THE DEAL WAS MADE, AND SOMETIMES AT OUR LOSS. EVEN THOUGH WE DID NOT HAVE TOO.

I just can't believe I am as bad a person as I have read on here. ....

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DRankin
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2002-05-13          38574

"Bad news travels around the world before good news can get it's boots on" Winston Churchill.

"The evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones." William Shakespeare in Julius Caesar

You guys aren't bad. Read all of this as a raw nerve amongst tractor heads.
....

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jimbopa
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Posts: 54 PA
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2002-05-13          38576

It started as a simple rebate question, let me end it at that.

The dealer delivered my new 4310 today, backhoe and all. He ended up passing along the rebate and the issue he was having with the backhoe turned out to be a mislabeled bracket that is used to attach the hoe.

The net cost was as follows

4310 $17,200
60mower 2,100
48 hoe 6,100
430 loader 3,100

less trade 10,500 (1992 755 with 340 hours,60 mower,70 less rebate 1,200 loader with 4 wh drive,turf)

Net cost $17,900 Includes 6% tax

The important part, the thing rides like a caddy, very impressed with the ehydo and new controls like speed match, i hitch and the overall build quality. A lot quiter than my 755. Still getting used to the size, its hugh compared to the old 755. I did not know which way to go, at this point I only have 3 acers so the plan is to eventually get into some light landscaping and use the machine. The 755 was good but lacked the size and I felt getting a hoe for it would not allow me to really use it for the future business. I really have to put it to the test when the rain stops here so the next post will be on the 4310 test drive. This site helped me a great deal!

SO the story ends on a positive note.



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JD Ten Series Rebate Question

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bigbukhntr
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 56 flower mound, texas
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2002-05-14          38578

well jim, glad to see everything worked out alright for ya....u spent alot of money and you deserve to be satisified with your purchase, buying a new tractor should be a joyful day in a mans life, i know it was for me...but with 3 acres, are u gonna be able to even turn that thing around on your place??..lol...boy it sure seems like this topic struck a nerve with some of us, as we have all had bad experiences with dealers at one time or another, but thank God this is America and we have the right to choose where we want to spend our money...good luck with the machine and hope u have many happy years with it ....

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