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 04-25-2004, 12:53 Post: 84213
trbomax



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 ditch retaining wall construction

I have 2 ditches running thru my property that converge into 1. Over the last 30 years they have eroded to a width of 30', from a begining 10'.The banks are about 8' tall.One is getting really close [10'] to my barn.What I propose to do is build a seawall on each side of the ditch to prevent any more erosion.My plan is to sink 4x4 posts on 4' centers,tie them back about 2' from the top,run 2x6 stringers [horiz.] behind them on 16"centers,then use 3/4" treated plywood for the actual wall with the plywood stood up verticaly. The plywood joints would be backed up on the inside with 1x6 [vert.].I will capit with 2x8.Ripstop tarps would be stapled into position on the ply. before backfilling, to prevent seepage.I think 4 &6 crushed limestone would be good against the inside,with a topping of dirt about 1' deep.I will use 1/2" rebar, 20' long for the tiebacks, drilling thru the 4x4,and bending the end over.At the other end, I will bend a 90 about 2' back,pointing up.Drop 2 cement blocks over this and bind the whole thing together with an 80# bag of concrete. Do I have a good plan, or am I missing something?






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 04-25-2004, 13:06 Post: 84214
trbomax



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 ditch retaining wall construction

I should add that I am keeping the bottom 8' wide,which according to a 1980 survey, is 2' wider than it was then.Fall of the bottom will not be altered.I have already built 2 bridges to faciliate crossing,useing 3 - 6"w x 8"t steel beams on 3' centers.I decked these with 2x12 treated to a width of 8',with double 2x12 running parallel to the beams where my tractor wheels will run. The retaining walls wil run along the bank where the bridges are,thus decreasing the actual span to 10' at those points.The total length of the walls will be about 80' on each side.I will angle them away from the stream bed at the ends to maintain a directional flow.These areas will be rip-rapped with large stone as well.






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 04-25-2004, 16:14 Post: 84226
blizzard



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 ditch retaining wall construction

You must have some really nice soil to have so much erosion in just a few years. Here there is so much clay and stone that would never happen unless the ditch had an awful lot of water flowing through it.
First I'd check with your county agricultural extension service to see what info they may have about this problem.
My feeling would be to forgo the plywood (PT wood is expensive and is prohibited in some areas), and use stone or crushed rock to shore up the sides, especially near the barn. Another solution might be to use a culvert to handle the water, around here 20" metal culvert is about $200 for 24' lengths.
Has the ditch eroded deeper over the years? Is there a lot of water flowing through it normally or only seasonally? Do you have a picture? I'm assuming there is only a little pitch, and perhaps fairly heavy seasonal flow, and the increase in width is due mostly to a fine soil.
Hope this helps some...
bliz






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 04-25-2004, 18:00 Post: 84248
hardwood

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Sounds like you've got a real problem to solve. I'd have to agree with Blizzard especially on the PT plywood, a mid sized city would'nt let me build my Grandkids a playhouse with PT 4x6 skids under it. Not seeing your ditch has me shooting in the dark a bit, but my feeling would be two to four inch crushed limesotne on the bare ditch walls first then topped off by big riprap six to ten inch would outlast any wood structure and cost less too. Sealing off the side of your plywood wall with plastic is only going to cause excess water to seek it's exit on the side of the wall where you don't want any water flow and cause erosion behind your wall where as the crushed limestone covered with heavy riprap will let the subsurface water find its way to the stream thru the stone and not erode behind it. Just my thoughts, best of luck, Frank.






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 04-25-2004, 19:09 Post: 84263
trbomax



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 ditch retaining wall construction

Good point about the plastic.I guess that part of the plan is gone! I actually have about 1200' to do, and I was going to use the stone thing on most of it.The PT isnt a problem,Ive had it shoring my bridge anchors for a while now.Tile is not an option,I wish it was,but we get so much trash floating down this thing when it rains that we'd have a dam in short order.It will go from 6" deep to 7' deep in 20 minutes when it rains hard,thats why it eroded out over the last 20 odd years. When we built the house in 1972,it was a stream,now it drains acres of parking lot 2 miles upstream.






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 04-25-2004, 20:12 Post: 84268
blizzard



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 ditch retaining wall construction

Though it may depend upon your zoning regulations and how corrupt your local city/town boards are, you may have a case that the parking lot owner has to make things right for you. I believe if construction adds appreciably to the downstream runoff there is compensation, in the form of 'make it right' to those landowners affected. Do you have any neighbors who are also experiencing this problem? Always helps to have multiple damaged parties. Perhaps the solution is as simple as the parking lot owner creating a holding pond which would release water from rainstorms/snowmelt in a controlled manner. I don't think yopu should bear the expense of a problem created by someone else, especially a business/parking lot. The appropriate zoning/permit boards should have regulations that protect you.
Good Luck with your problem.
bliz






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 04-25-2004, 20:42 Post: 84271
grassgod

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 ditch retaining wall construction

trbomax - i have built many walls. first off defintly check with your town inland/ wetlands zoning person. If you dont do this with their permission, they have the abilty to make your remove it.

secondly, i would use 6x6's instead of the 4x4's. I would use concrete cinderblocks. i would beef up the rebar to 3/4 or 1" & i would use more then 80 lbs of conrete at the end of each rebar.

be safe not sorry






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 04-25-2004, 20:53 Post: 84273
kwschumm



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 ditch retaining wall construction

If your town/county/state wetland zoning doesn't know about your situation DON'T TELL THEM! They're just as likely to come by and declare your entire property a wetland and effectively take it from you.






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 04-25-2004, 21:01 Post: 84274
trbomax



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Without getting int a very lengthly story,all the above has happened,lawsuits,holding ponds,county engineers,epa,whatevr.The bottom line was that my attornies dug up some ancient documents that show that the drainage that crossesour property was never turned over to thecounty or state,hence it never became public domain.There are only about 15 miles of drainage in our state that are that way,our 1/2 mi. is part of it.As a result, the county or state has no say as to what we do,so long as we do not restrict the flow to less than what the base survey shows in 1983 as a cross section when we filed the original suit.I have letters and documents to this effect,in one of them the county engineer states "you may do as you see fit with it" .All of this is still legal precident, and even though its 20 yrs old, is binding.






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 04-26-2004, 04:45 Post: 84315
hardwood

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Trbomax; As Blizzard said, surely others up and down strem are having the same problem caused by the parking lot drainage. Who was there first, you or the parking lot? Around here we have lots of pond construction using existing creeks as a water source. By law you cannot when building a pond back water onto public right of way or another persons property or submerge a pre esisting tile outlet. So common sense tells me that the pond backup issue should also work in reverse that if the parking lot has caused the problem then the owners of the lot or lots should have documents on file somewhere at the courthouse stating that code was followed regarding drainage from their lot no matter who was there first. There is a similar issue in a nearby city here where housing developments were built leagaly above the floodplain 25 yrs ago, but since then the old downtown busineses have been starved to death by the superstores going to the suburbs. The superstores and the streets required to get to them have since paved over God only knows how many acres of land thwe now drain into the creek thru the 25 yr. old development to the point now where a 2 inch rain is a major flood problem. I really haven't kept up on that situation enough to tell you how it's going, but it has been dragging on for years. Best of luck. Frank.






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