Go BottomExcavator size and vs TLB
 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina 
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2007-08-13 144657
We are considering some tree removal that would leave stumps up to about 20 inches. They would be pine, sweet gum and other hardwoods. Many of these stumps will be in piles of dirt from a pond. Those piles of dirt will be removed to orginial grade or very close (they are about 7 feet high). The dirt is a good soil for digging not being gumbo clay or rocks. There could be 100 (rough guess) or so stumps from 12 to 20 inch size and another 100 from 4 inches to that size. Will have about 5 years from time of cutting the trees to when the stumps must be out and dirt moved.
Bringing in contractor with large equipment is an option but the equipment will be running across a yard and over roots of trees we want to keep (large oaks). The dirt will not be move far but too far to just push with a dozier plus the damage it would do to tree roots. The amount of yard that would damaged is not large enough to be a problem, other than it is a slope above a pond and do not want any washing into the pond. Have also considered renting or buying of used equipment for the work.
My questions are how do you compare the size of TLB to an excavator for the digging? A 6 to 7,000 pound excavator is the size recommended so far. I like the concept of the excavator and dump trailer over TLB if for no other reason than the weight difference when moving the dirt.
Any suggestion would be appreciated. kt
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-08-14 144662
Kenneth, probably the easiest way to compare the two styles of machine would be by using breakout force and lift capacity.
As a word of caution though, a dump trailer will cause far more compaction than even a VERY large dozer would. It all comes down to two things, psi transmitted to the ground, and the number of times you cross a given area. A dump trailer that weighs say only 2,000 pounds, with just a 4,000 pound load in it, but sitting on 4 tire contact patches (the part of the tire touching the ground) of about 1 square foot (or 144 square inches) thus causing a load of 6,000 pounds on 144 square inches, or about 42 psi.
By comparison, my 20,000 pound Cat D5 dozer has a ground bearing pressure of just under 4.5 psi.
Best of luck. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-08-14 144663
Ken, most excavators will go where no TLB will go and with a full swing will out perform the best of operators. The five year clean-up till finish would have me wondering why not a backhoe for your 6800 and the purchase of the dump trailer to do your self and add to the fleet. When playing with stumps, thumbs are a great option! ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-08-14 144664
Murf, I might not have made it clear with the dozier I would think the blade in pushing the dirt would have the tendancy to catch roots and cut them they would have to push the dirt over on trees we want to save. Do understand the compaction you brought up and had not done the math on that.
Art, on the 6800, would a backhoe need a subframe?
....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-08-14 144677
Kenneth, maybe I didn't understand you.
If you have a 5year time frame to accomplish this work, then you have two more options.
First, and the simplest, cut the trees down, drill 1" or bigger holes in the top of them, fill the holes with potassium nitrate and drive a snug-fitting dowel into the hole to plug it. In just a few years the stumps will be VERY well rotted.
The second way would be to get a stump grinder and grind the stumps down below grade and cover them over, again in just a few years they will be quite well-rotted, but not as much as the above method.
Is there some place you can run a 'tote road' (construction access trail) to where you want the dirt that wont run over the tree roots? Bear in mind, for almost all species of trees, the limit of root area that needs to be protected is an imaginary line around the tree called the "drip line", this is best described as the area where the outer branches would cause a ring of drips when it rains, or the area shaded if the sun were directly overhead the tree. Any disturbance outside this area will not damage a healthy tree.
Best of luck. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-08-14 144688
The Kubota outfit is a subframe unit. That's the way I'd want one, it is a much more solid outfit with the sub-frame.
On a different note you could buy an older tlb for less or a little more then the new backhoe from Kubota or another brand and have the added heavy duty digger! ....
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 | candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1932 North Dakota 
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2007-08-15 144694
KThompson,
I'm just shooting around a few things here for your consideration.
From experience, I know that the barter system is alive and well in the South. I lived under the barter system for three years, in Georgia. I never had to pay a penny for anything I needed, but I had to put out a lot of elbow grease in return.
Somebody in your area has a need for a tractor of the size you have. One of those guys has an excavator sitting behind the house, but no tractor. You know where I'm going with this.
Believe me, there's a way to get this done, but it might cost you a few weekends in return for the favor.
The key to the barter system is to never fall too far behind in the favor department. It is always better to have someone owe you a favor, than for you to owe favors to too many people. (don't ask me how I learned this.)hehehe.
Joel ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2007-08-15 144695
Murf, have done the stump drilling as you said but did not use the chemical you mentioned. Too many years ago to remember if we used anything on the pine but the hardwoods used salt only to keep them from sprouting.
Art, I have not seen a M series with backhoe here but there are many of the B and L. Probably half of all in that size range here are Kubotas.
Candoarms, the barter system works well at times. I have a brother, friend each with TLB that is available for my use as SOON AS THEY get out the shop or back home or such. Have only be 3 years on one and 1 on the other. Did think of another friend with large excavator (if still working) sitting within 400 yards of where the work area is who may be open to swap with. The barter system is being lost sadly with the passing of the oldest generation. Those people really lived by it and here were very willing to loan to you because you would to them freely.
Thank you friends. Sometimes is not a new idea but the reinforcement of your own thoughts that give the best support. kt ....
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