Insulation in a steel building: Carpentry  -- Home Building Discussion Forum and Review Insulation in a steel building: Carpentry -- Home Building Discussion Forum

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 08-12-2004, 05:12 Post: 93289
hardwood

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 Insulation in a steel building

I just finished roofing and residing a 50 yr. old wood frame building with common barn steel siding. I ran 1X4's horozontal on the outside of the old vertical car siding wood siding to screw the steel to, that worked fine. It's kind of hard to believe how a junky looking old building can look new again. I've decided to line the inside with steel for fire prevention when welding in the building. My goal is not to keep it toasty warm when it's zero outside, but just take the chill off for occasonal winter use. So now my question, should I put some kind of roll insulation between the 2X4 studs and the inside steel or would I just be building the biggest mouse hotel in Iowa? Also should I put some plastic behind the inside steel? Thanks in advance. Frank.






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 08-12-2004, 07:20 Post: 93294
beagle

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 Insulation in a steel building

I would think the plastic behind the steel as a vapor barrier would be a good idea if you are going to heat it in the winter. Without a vapor barrier, any heat you put in the building will cause a lot of condensation.

I insulated my pole barn last fall. The mice love me! I don't know that it is biggest mouse hotel in Michigan, but one of those mice hung 4 Stars on the front door.






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 08-12-2004, 08:36 Post: 93303
Murf



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 Insulation in a steel building

If there's someone in your area that does sprayed in place foam insulation you might want to look into doing that.

It forms a vapour barrier as it dries so it eliminates that step completely. We used it in several buildings at our place and it seems to work great, it has a very high R-value per inch of material and stops all drafts. Something about it doesn't appeal to critters either, we haven't had any mice or squirrels chew into it that we have found so far.

It's more expensive than regular insulation, but in a small area it doesn't make much difference, besides it's fast and permanent, if you have to replace fiberglass a couple times because it became a Rodent Red Roof Inn, the savings disappear REAL fast.

Best of luck.






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 08-12-2004, 08:43 Post: 93305
kwschumm



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 Insulation in a steel building

Icynene (sp?) spray in foam is great, no doubt about it, but it may not stop the rodents. I've seen 'em tunnel through DAP spray foam insulation that I've used. Not sure if Icynene is the same type of stuff as DAP though.






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 08-13-2004, 04:39 Post: 93391
grinder

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 Insulation in a steel building

Frank
A good rule of thumb is "don't insulate if you can't ventilate"
What style roof in on the builing?
If you can keep the roof cold"insulated at ceiling height" you will have less trouble. You will need to ventilate the space above. I think you can get the size of vents needed from buiding sciences on the web.x amount of sq. ft. = x amount of sq. in. of vents.
Spray foam works good. R-value about 7 per inch. vs
3-1/2" OF fiberglass =R-13. The kraft faced is a vapor retardent, not a barrier. the walls will need a min, 4mil poly. do not do the ceiling.
Make sure you have all potential pipes or wires in the walls first.
good luck
"Get a cat for the mice"






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 08-13-2004, 05:13 Post: 93392
hardwood

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 Insulation in a steel building

Grinder; The roof is a common wood rafters with solid shiplap sheathing. on top of that is a layer of old asphalt shingles covered with 2X4 horozontal nailers 2 ft. apart toped with steel. Yes it's heavy but we did rebrace the rafters from underneath. The whole building is 24 X 32 with 8 ft. sidewalls and a common 4/12 roof. so we're not talking abouit a lot of volume to heat. I'm going to check into the foam that was mentioned above for the walls. So now should I leave the rafter space open and put some insulation on the bottom of the roof sheathing or put steel on the bottom of the rafter ties and lay some rool insulation on the top of it? My Son tells me to leave the space between the rafters open to better pull welding smoke out with a fan rather than put flat steel on the ceiling and try to capture the smoke with a hood. I completely striped out all the old wiring and my goal is to have no wiring in the walls I'll use surface mount conduit. Today the plan is to trench 3 phase to the building for some curent 3 phase equipment that I'll move over there when the building is done. Even the wife thinks this is a good idea because I might have trouble squeezing all my stuff in the smaller building, so it may limit my ability to buy any more toys, er, oh, I mean badly needed tools. Thanks everyone for all the info., any more thoughts will be apreciated. Frank.






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 08-13-2004, 09:48 Post: 93411
shortmagnum

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 Insulation in a steel building

Frank, the inside steel works great for a shop. Two of my friends recently set theirs up and they couldn't be happier. I would put steel horizontally on the rafter ties with some insulation above it. Keep the "attic space" well vented. The volume you'll have to heat is much reduced. Venting will keep you cooler in the summer too.

For smoke extraction I mounted a double squirrel cage fan high on one wall. This fan works wonderfully because it's almost totally quiet. It extracts almost 1000 cfm of air and you hardly know it's on. You almost need earplugs for a circular barn fan of the same CFM.
Dave






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 08-14-2004, 06:08 Post: 93497
grinder

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 Insulation in a steel building

Frank
I agree with shortmagnum, with one addition. I would strap
the ceiling first. 16" on center with some 1x3 or 1x4.
This will keep your insulation off the metal. I think with
the seasonal changes and heating the building you could have
a condensation issue at ceiling height. that inch of air should help. If you go 24" on center with your strapping I think your insulation will sag and lay on the metal.
By strapping it, you will make the job of installing the metal easier and it will lay flat(more screwing).
I might suggest that "before" you do your ceiling, go up and install two gable end vents home chepo has them for $50.00 with a fan all attached(one fan will do) one without.
Put a good size vent in. not a 12"x12"
You may also consider an access to the "attic" that you can open in the summer and run your fan for additional exhaust
and ventilation. 2'x 2' should do it.
Why do you want metal on the ceiling?
What about lights?






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 08-14-2004, 06:53 Post: 93499
hardwood

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 Insulation in a steel building

Grinder, I've decided aganst steel on the ceiling to make for easier fume control and lower the noise potential. The plan now is to put paper back fiber glass roll between the rafters. I'll probably use flourescent for overall lighting and incondescant with shields for a spotlight effect. We've used this lighting system in the assembly room at the furniture plant for years and has been satisfactory. I'll keep you up to speed as things progress. Thanks for your intrest. Frank.






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 08-15-2004, 05:47 Post: 93565
grinder

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 Insulation in a steel building

your welcome ,hope it was of some help.






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