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Diesel Fuel

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gofish41
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2004-10-17          98593


My brother in law told me it is ok to substitute home heating oil for diesel fuel. hs said theyare the same THING. He is a certified gm line technicion . is this ok to do? would it affect my warranty?

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lbrown59
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2004-10-17          98601


Why choose it over diesel ?

There have been lots of post about fuel on this board.
Check out some of the other forum topics. ....

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Chief
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2004-10-17          98603


Why not just go buy some off road/ag diesel and fill up a number of 5 gallon fuel cans and put what belongs in the machine. Is your brother inlaw going to pay for whatever if any warranty issues arise if a fuel related problem should occur? You may save $100 over the life of the machine or while you own it. Most diesel fuel injection pumps start at around $800 to $1,000 and go up from there. ....

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scott
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2004-10-17          98605


We were at the cabin and ran out of diesel fuel. it was either go 45 miles for a couple more gallons to finish the project at hand or the heating oil. By the way i did go get diesel fuel, i just wanted to know if the heating fuel is compatable as he said. ....

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grassgod
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2004-10-18          98608


i used home heated oil many times in my former tractor & had no problems at all. The red die is harmless. ....

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grassgod
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2004-10-18          98610


That's all the big excavation companies use in their large machines. They get a home heating oil company to some to their job sites & fill their equipment up once a week or so. ....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-18          98620



Why not just use ag diesel which is what belongs in the machine and save 40 to 50 cents a gallon in sales tax?
....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-18          98621


That's all the big excavation companies use in their large machines.
1*They get a home heating oil company to come to their job sites & fill their equipment up once a week or so.
===================================
This is probably ag diesel not home heating heating oil.
Just because it's delivered by a home heating oil company don't mean it's home heating oil.
....

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grassgod
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2004-10-18          98623


Next time i am on a job site & see the oil truck filling the machines, I will ask him. It could happen today. ....

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bmlekki
Join Date: Oct 2003
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2004-10-18          98629


I'm running heating oil with power service gray bottle, no problems.. Without the cetane boot in the power service, the heating oil was not as powerful. Once I boosted the cetane it was fine.. There was some discussion of this topic in a thread called kerosene, and many more.. ....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-18          98633


'm running heating oil with power service gray bottle, no problems..
bmlekki
=========================
Why do you prefer the heating oil over ag diesel ?


Why not just use ag diesel which is what belongs in the machine and save 40 to 50 cents a gallon in sales tax?
....

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Murf
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2004-10-18          98634


There are MANY people who will deliver home heating oil to you, and if you already have oil-fired appliances, you already have a tank, and likely an account which means you are going to get the benefit of the best price possible.

If you want to buy Ag diesel, that's another story, another tank, and all the associated problems that come with it, even IF you could find someone to deliver it in small quantities.

Best of luck. ....

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bmlekki
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2004-10-18          98639


lbrown59

Murf hits the nail right on the head...

On road Diesel is 2.40 right now and I had my heating oil tank filled a month ago at 1.51. The local fuel companyís donít deliver less then 150 gallons at a time. There is no way I would use 150 gals of ag in a year, but used more than the 5 gal cans, where they were not practical.

When the heating oil was delivered I had the driver fill my 30gal barrel which I put on a pallet and bought down to the house.
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lbrown59
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2004-10-19          98708


1*and if you already have oil-fired appliances,
Murf
2*On road Diesel is 2.40 right now and I had my heating oil tank filled a month ago at 1.51. The local fuel companyís donít deliver less then 150 gallons at a time.
bmlekki
=================
1 * & if you don't?
2* On road Diesel is 2.00 here. But I don't pay the sales tax .

....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-19          98744


If you know a farmer or anybody who has ag diesel delivered you could arrange to get your fuel from him.

Any body doing this? ....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-19          98745


If heating oil works in the tractor then why couldn't you use Diesel to heat with,especilly if both are the same stuff.
If they are the same why not buy the cheepest and use it in both?
....

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dsg
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2004-10-19          98748


Murf, What do you use in your Fleet of Tractors, Home Heating/Off Road-(Red Dye) or On Road- (Green Dye)?

David ....

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lucerne
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2004-10-19          98766


I've used jet fuel in my diesel truck, it's just superclean diesel at alot higher price. Was working at the airport and didn't think I could make it to the station, so I pumped in a few gallons in my truck. ....

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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
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2004-10-19          98768


licerne: That's a real quick way to wreck you injector pump. The JP4 (?) doesn't have the lubricity of diesel. A pump can be modified to run jet fuel, but I don't think any OEM will handle it very long. ....

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Murf
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2004-10-20          98796


David, we use 'off-road' diesel, although in a pinch we will use 'on-road' as well, it's just a pain to save all the receipts, file the form and wait for the refund. Regardless of what we are running it ALWAYS goes through a pre-filter to remove as much water, parafin and other debris as possible however.

While overseas on jobs however we are forced to run whatever is available, all of it is rather questionable, some of it is HIGHLY suspect. We ship a LOT of additives along with the machines.

LBrown, you can use Diesel to heat your home with, it's more money that's all.

Best of luck. ....

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lucerne
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2004-10-20          98866


Did not hurt the injector pump, aren't they oiled via motor oil anyway, just had to keep the tailgate, (flaps) down to keep from lifting at speed. Just kiddin ....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-20          98867


Regardless of what we are running it ALWAYS goes through a pre-filter to remove as much water, parafin and other debris as possible however.

Will a water separation funnel remove all these? ?
....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-20          98869


They get a home heating oil company to some to their job sites.
==============================================================
Is there a sales tax on home heating oil ??? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2004-10-21          98899


LBrown, no, a water-separating funnel is not a filter, it IS a very fine mesh, a fuel filter will trap anything larger than 10 micron in size. A micron is 1/1000th of one millimetre, which would be 1/25,400".

I don't know about your state, but generally, yes there is sales tax on home heating oil, but you would pay sales tax on Ag. diesel too unless you are an accredited farmer.

Best of luck. ....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-21          98904


but you would pay sales tax on Ag. diesel too unless you are an accredited farmer.
=================================
If There is sales tax on :
On toad
Off Road
Home heating
And AG
Then why all the Gov fuss about Dyeing them different colors?

....

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AV8R
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2004-10-21          98906


It's not the sales tax, it's the ROAD USE tax. I don't know what the rates are in your state, but sales sax is cheap (WI - 5%) but road tax is MUCH more (+/- 15%, little help here?). I don't know the exact rates.

That, of course is the purpose, these road use taxes and other tagged on fuel tax numbers are exorbitant and kept quiet. ....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-21          98907


LBrown, no, a water-separating funnel is not a filter, it IS a very fine mesh, a fuel filter will trap anything larger than 10 micron in size. A micron is 1/1000th of one millimetre, which would be 1/25,400".
murf+++++++++
=======================
So do you run the fuel through both a fuel filter funnel and a water-separating funnel?
If so which one do you pour it through first or does it matter?

I'm not sure I understand all I know about this.
You probably guessed that LOL

....

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Chief
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2004-10-21          98908


At least in TN, ag fuel in not taxed at all. Off road and heating oil is not taxed with federal road use taxes but state and local sales taxes are applied. ....

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Murf
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2004-10-21          98912


LBrown, our tanks have a pump & hose assembly, we do not use a 5 gallon Jerry can. In between the pump & hose is a filter assembly, much like an oil filter on a vehicle, with a spin-on replaceable cartridge. It traps everything, water, paraffin, debris, in one shot.

As AV8R & Chief mentioned, the problem is NOT sales taxes, they are not a big amount anyways, it is the road taxes that make a big difference in the overall price. The dyes are so that a sample of the contents of the tank will quickly show if someone is cheating by using fuel on the road on which the road taxes have NOT been paid. This is commonly done with a piece of clear tubing stuck in the filler neck, it is commonly refereed to as "dipping a tank".

Best of luck. ....

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AnnBrush
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2004-10-21          98927


AV8R: "That, of course is the purpose, these road use taxes and other tagged on fuel tax numbers are exorbitant and kept quiet."

All taxes levied require legal authorization and as such have to be made avaliable to the person paying the tax. Its a simple matter of contacting your fuel vendor to find out what taxes are included in the price you are paying for the fuel. They have to have these numbers to be able to remit the taxes they collect. The person you initially talk to may not personally know what the taxes are but the legal entity supplying the fuel is required to supply the numbers on request.

....

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AV8R
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2004-10-21          98928


...As opposed to putting that number right on the pump where everyone can see it and be angry about it. IMHO it should be put on the pump for everyone to know.

As far as getting it back: Will Joe Q. Fuelbuyer go through the problem of trying to get the remission forms etc. done to get what they think is "just a couple cents" per gallon? I've been through this running "auto-fuel" in an airplane. It is neither easy or guarenteed that you will get the state's hard earned income back. Been there, been denied. ....

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Murf
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2004-10-21          98931


Fuel tax or 'road tax' varies state to state, but in Wisconsin for example (just to wind AV8R up a bit, LOL) it is $0.291/gallon. In other places it is a percentage basis.

The link below is a page that links you to pages for the tax rates in each state.

Best of luck. ....


Link:   Fuel Tax Rates

 
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lucerne
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2004-10-21          98933


That would be the state tax Murf, then you have to add the federal tax, it seems when gas was around 1.09 sometime last year, the fuel tax totals almost equel the gas price. It is all written out on the Maine pumps, I'll check next time I fuel up. Seems it was 42 or 49 cents a gallon I think? ....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-21          98934




LBrown, our tanks have a pump & hose assembly,
1* In between the pump & hose is a filter assembly, much like an oil filter on a vehicle, with a spin-on replaceable cartridge. It traps everything, water, paraffin, debris, in one shot.
2*we do not use a 5 gallon Jerry can.
Murf ===========
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1* I kind of figured this was how you did it.
2*I have been doing this for my fuel needs.
I started out with two 5 Gal DIESEL containers but found out I only needed one.
What I do is fill up the five gallon can and when the tractor gets to a quarter tank I fill it up and this leaves about 1 and 1/3 gal. in the 5 gal can. When the tractor gets down to 1/4 again I dump the rest of the 5 gal can in the tank. This leaves me about 2 & 1/4 gal. to run on while I get the 5 gal can filled up again.

This seems to be working out pretty well for me so far as I haven't had to make excessive trips to the service station to refill the 5 gal. can.

The thing I haven't got straight in my mind is how to strain the fuel for removal of water, paraffin and debris.
~~~~~~~~````````~~~~~~~~``````````~~~~~~~~~
Thanks for your replies you've been very helpful and informative.

....

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Murf
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2004-10-21          98940


LBrown brings up a good point.

It's the old "sometimes ya' can't see the forest for the trees story"...

I was helping a neighbour the other morning with some firewood and he was complaining about the hassle (weight, spillage, etc.) with filling his tractor from 5 gallon cans. He was saying it might be time to get a tank & pump, because the 5 gal. cans were getting too heavy.

My suggestion made him laugh so hard he had to sit down.

Buy a second 5 gallon can, take them both to the store and fill each one only half full. Now each container weighs half as much, and since it is not full to the top getting the spout in the filler opening without spilling is fairly easy because you can tip the can so far over before the fuel reaches the spout.

We even took the thing one step (literally) further, he had some leftover P.T. lumber from a deck he had built and we whipped up a small stoop basically, a platform 3' x 3' two steps up off the ground. Now he has a stable place to stand that is easy to get up onto & down from instead of trying to balance on the front tire while refueling.

Wacky ideas are still free, even the ones that work...

Best of luck. ....

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denwood
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2004-10-22          99030


I am in PA and there is no Ag diesel I know of.
When I order home heating oil for the house, it is stamped right on the bill, "dyed #2 diesel". I asked about it and was told it is the same fuel in our state, just dyed. I have had no problems running it in any diesel equipment from a small kubota up. Even down to 0 deg. F. with no additives. All my neighboring dairy farms do the same-- fill the house and the farm tank at the same time. $1.42 for dyed, $2.10-$2.30 for road. The state does check vehicles at times to catch cheaters ....

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lbrown59
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2004-10-22          99063



My suggestion made him laugh so hard he had to sit down.

Buy a second 5 gallon can, take them both to the store and fill each one only half full. Now each container weighs half as much, and since it is not full to the top getting the spout in the filler opening without spilling is fairly easy because you can tip the can so far over before the fuel reaches the spout.
Best of luck.
*********************************************
I was doing a variation of this for gas for my lawn tractor.
I had 3 or 4 five gal cans.
I would put 3 or 4 gal in each. Other times I would put in 3 or 4 dollars for each can.
Another thing you could do is use 3 two gal. cans and then you always have an extra gallon on hand.

I find just one five gallon can works pretty good for the bx23.
The 5+ gallon tank helps a lot as I only have to handle the 5 gallon can once whereas with the one gallon tank on the lawn tractor I was having to wrestle that old 5 gallon bear 5 times before it ran out of juice.

....

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