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activeirrigation
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4 myrtle beach, sc
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2004-08-28          94818


Hey everyone.

I'm an irrigation contractor and need to be able to trench 2-1/2" wide by 8" deep over long distances (some subdivision entrances can total almost 3/4 of a mile). I'm in Myrtle Beach, SC so I mostly trench in dirt/sand or gumbo clay. (very few rocks but some healthy roots)

I have a craftsman GT5000 garden tractor with a 27 hp engine and extra heavy duty manual transmission. I'm thinking of mounting the Bolton power equipment 3 pt PTO trencher on an Agri-Fab 3 point trailer and towing it behind the tractor. The trailer has a winch to raise and lower the trencher. The trencher requires at lease 21hp at the PTO turning at either 540 or 1000 rpm.

I think that I could mount an engine with some type of clutch mechanism (or hydraulics?) to take the place of a tractor's PTO.
I don't have a lot of knowledge as to engines, transmissions, hydraulics, etc so what I need to know is this:

If an ordinary engine turning at 3600 rpm is rated at 4hp will it achieve 24hp if it's geared down to 600 rpm (standard 6:1 reduction available from most engine manufacturers)It seems to me that it should based on the formula: HP = Torque X (RPM/63025); and

What would be the best way to connect the 3 pt trencher implement to the engine (belts, geared clutch, hydraulics, etc).

I sure would appreciate any help anyone can give me.

Thanks

Gene

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WillieH
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 543 New England
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2006-02-22          124943


activeirrigation -

What you are proposing to do, is not unheard of. I cannot say that you will get an absolute 24hp by the reduction means that you have described, however very close.

By changing the output drive ratio, one can achieve a host of different output speeds, and power factors. This is seen time and time again with the smaller ride on mowers of yesterday. They had a belt drive from the engine to a disc on the rearend. This disc would ultimately act as an adjustable tranny, as the driver adjusted a drive wheel (speed/friction) that would move the drive wheel (speed/friction) farther towards the center of the drive disc realizing higher output speeds, or out further on the drive wheel allowing slower drive speeds.

This practice is also seen with many pulley applications. By changing the output pulley on an output shaft, to larger or smaller, one will achieve a change in output power up or down respectively, as well as torque.

What you are proposing is certainly do-able. Keep in mind, that, the requisite of a 21hp drive be present, is not necessarily needed to operate, rather to sustain the maximum heavy load of the application, without overworking your power source. It will work -

-Willie H ....

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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2006-02-22          124949


Gene, The HP formula should tell you that you won't have a HP gain by gearing a small motor down. The increase in torque is offset by the decrease in RPM so the net result is unchanged (other than some friction losses).

If your plan worked we would all have much greater PTO HP in our tractors than we do engine HP because the PTO is geared down to 540 RPM from 2000 engine RPM or so. I'm afraid you'll need a 21 HP motor to run the trencher.
Dave ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5111 Northern Nevada
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2006-02-22          124950


This sounds like a lot of work for an uncertain result. I can't imagine running all that off of a couple of rubber belts.

I would cut to the chase and get a real tractor with a real PTO that produced MORE than the required minimum horse power.

Check with your CPA. If you are in business you can write off equipment you buy or lease. Then you can spend your time doing what you do best..... moving dirt, not laying on the shop floor jury-rigging some poorly articulated monstrosity.
....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-02-22          124954


You are right, but I doubt he is listening. Look at the original date on this. ....

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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2006-02-22          124956


"Look at the original date on this."

Oh well... :) ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5111 Northern Nevada
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2006-02-22          124957


Geez........ remind me to look there first......

Oh well. ....

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WillieH
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 543 New England
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2006-02-22          124958


...and to think no one revisits old postings besides me.

(its only been ...nearly a year) LOL

....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5223 South Carolina
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2006-02-22          124962


There happens to be a manuf. of trenching machines in the area he is in. WOnder if he did not know that.
kt
....

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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2006-02-22          124967


Just you and LBrown59.

LoL. ....

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