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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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paulmo
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 75 livermore colorado
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2014-03-01          189352


Log splitter build questions!
For anyone,
The question is,... Will a transmission oil cooler, or a small radiator,used to cool the hydraulic fluid withstand the pressure on the return line?

The pump is rated 11 GPM, The splitter cylinder is rated at 2500 lbs.
Also I'm unsure about fittings for that kind of set up since a radiator would be so light.

Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks!

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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chashm
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 63 United States
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2014-03-01          189354


On a line that returns to the tank, it shouldn't be a problem as there is no (or very little) back-pressure ever on this line.
If you're hooking the cooler in a line that might have real pressure on it, you're unlikely to find a cooler rated at 2000+ psi although I suppose you could fashion one out of steel line.

But why do you think you need one in the first place? ....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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chuckles
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 77 Eastern PA
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2014-03-01          189355


As long as your tank holds 5 or more gallons with the 11 gpm pump you would be in line with almost all the best log splitter manufacturers that use the quantity of oil to cool fluid without a cooling radiator. ....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-03-02          189358


Somehow we got a bit off track here.

Paulmo is building a gas-powered, hydraulic power pack to be used for powering a log splitter first... with the option of powering other hydraulic equipment in the future.

Installing a heat exchanger on a log splitter isn't necessary, but should he decide to run a hydraulic motor for hours on end his power pack should have a heat exchanger on it.

The heat exchanger (radiator) is never placed in the pressure side of the circuit. It is always placed in the drain side.....no pressure.......in the return line from the control valve.....back to the tank.

Joel

....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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chuckles
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 77 Eastern PA
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2014-03-02          189359


Quote:
Originally Posted by candoarms | view 189358
Somehow we got a bit off track here.Paulmo is building a gas-powered, hydraulic power pack to be used for powering a log splitter first... with the option of powering other hydraulic equipment .....


I think we have a case of the Road to Abilene Paradox on this project.

In an Abilene paradox a group of people collectively decide on a course of action that is counter to the preferences of many of the individuals in the group.[1][2] It involves a common breakdown of group communication in which each member mistakenly believes that their own preferences are counter to the group's and, therefore, does not raise objections. A common phrase relating to the Abilene paradox is a desire to not "rock the boat".

Our original poster asked for the bare bones simplest way to attach a splitter to his rear hydraulics :-) Now he is into an extensive project which is great but I have to think somewhat off track of where he started....

I for one have been massively entertained by the mushrooming of this project. It is probably the most interesting thing on this site, so please keep going ... ....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-03-02          189361


Chuckles,

Growing up on a farm, I was always surprised by the huge number of engines, batteries, and tires that we had to maintain on a constant basis.

Every piece of equipment had it's own engine and battery. I lost track of the number of tires as I was attempting to count them. Keeping track of air filters for each motor was a pain in the back side. Keeping fresh engine oil in all of those engines was even worse.

Paulmo wants a log splitter. He has many options available to him.

After many short discussions, Paulmo decided that he'd rather have a power pack, which can be used to power many different pieces of equipment. Building a single power pack will prevent him from having to install a motor and pump on every piece of equipment around the farm.

In reality, building the power pack is no more complicated than placing a motor and pump on his log splitter. However, since power packs can be used to power many different types of equipment.....each placing different power demands on the pump and motor.....the power pack has to be designed to handle any possible situation in which it could be employed.

When power demands become heavy, it is imperative that some sort of cooling system is installed in the hydraulic return circuit. Hours of continuous use will cause the hydraulic oil to get very hot. Heat is a primary cause of failure in hydraulic systems.

A log splitter requires a Motor, Pump, Control valve, hydraulic tank, and a cylinder. It does not require a heat exchanger for cooling, but hydraulic motor circuits certainly do. Paulmo has everything available to him, with the exception of the pump and a few fittings.

There's no sense in building dozens of these hydraulic power stations when a single motor-pump combination can be used to power a conveyor in the morning, and then moved to the shop to power a hydraulic tubing bender in the afternoon.

Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

Joel

....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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chuckles
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 77 Eastern PA
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2014-03-02          189362


Joel,

I think the quality of the advice that has been given has been excellent and yours in particular outstanding!

And it is a great project in deed. It reminds me of my own tinkering... and project scope creep I always seem to prefer. So I am getting a kick out of it as well as you aptly recap where Paulmo is now building a multi use power pack, when he stated in his earlier thread he had no other use for the hydraulics other than powering his splitter. But he will doubtless find many uses for it in the future aside from the wealth of knowledge he has gained and we have all shared in.

This is all good and it is what I do in most things I start... But humorously I just wanted to poke some fun at how we all expand our needs to grow exponentially beyond our starting points....

It reminded me of this old Monty Python skit of the Society for putting one thing on top of another thing.


Toastmaster (Eric Idle): Gentlemen, pray silence for the President of the Royal Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things.

(There is much upperclass applause and banging on the table as Sir William rises to his feet.)

Sir William (Graham Chapman): I thank you, gentlemen. The year has been a good one for the Society.

Crowd: Hear! Hear!

Sir William: This year our members have put more things on top of other things than ever before. But, I should warn you, this is no time for complacency. No, there are still many things, and I cannot emphasize this too strongly, not on top of other things. I myself, on my way here this evening, saw a thing that was not on top of another thing in any way.

Crowd: Shame!! Shame!!

Sir William: Shame indeed, but we must not allow ourselves to become too despondent. For, we must never forget that if there was not one thing that was not on top of another thing our society would be nothing more than a meaningless body of men that had gathered together for no good purpose. But we flourish. This year our Australasian members and the various organizations affiliated to our Australasian branches put no fewer than twenty-two things on top of other things. (applause) Well done all of you. But there is one cloud on the horizon. In this last year our Staffordshire branch has not succeeded in putting one thing on top of another.

Crowd: Shame!! Shame!!

Sir William: Therefore I call upon our Staffordshire delegate to explain this weird behaviour.

(As Sir William sits a meek man met at one of the side tables.)

Mr Cutler (John Cleese): Er, Cutler, Staffordshire. Um... well, Mr Chairman, it's just that most of the members in Staffordshire feel... the whole thing's a bit silly.

(Cries of outrage. Chairman leaps to feet.)

Sir William: Silly?? SILLY!! (he pauses and thinks) Silly! I suppose it is, a bit. What have we been doing wasting our lives with all this nonsense? (hear, hear) Right, okay, meeting adjourned forever.



....


Link:   Monty Python Video

 
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____________________________________________________________________________________
Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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paulmo
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 75 livermore colorado
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2014-03-02          189373


Thanks Joel,

I should have remembered that the return line carries little pressure. I plan on using 1" hose for both the suction side and return side, and am still trying to locate a used radiator or trans cooler in our area.
I'm also using a 15 gallon tank, which should handle anything I'll be doing, again in the future.

Thank you again!

Paul ....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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paulmo
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 75 livermore colorado
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2014-03-02          189375


Chuckles,

Perfectly put! but we're having so much fun doing it!

Thanks,

Paul ....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2014-03-02          189377


Paul,

You've got a good plan there. A 15 gallon tank is excellent. The 1" suction and return lines will work great.

I'm sure you'll be very happy with the outcome, but if you need anything else along the way, please don't be afraid to ask.

Enjoy the build project.

Joel ....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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chashm
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 63 United States
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2014-03-03          189381


Quote:
Originally Posted by candoarms | view 189377
A 15 gallon tank is excellent.


It's good practice to fill the tank as full as possible to keep condensation from the airspace down. Do you really want to buy 15 gallons of fluid to start and have to change 15 gallons? And there's going to be about a 100 pounds of oil in that tank to lug around....
-------
I'd stay away from a used radiator; there's likely to be all sorts of antifreeze crud you won't be able to completely purge before you pump oil through it. eBay had an oil cooler new without box for $6 to start and a used Harley oil cooler for $25 buy-it-now... ....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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boltboss
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 52 Cassopolis, MI
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2014-03-03          189384


Without knowing all of the ways that the hydraulic power source would be used the following suggestions may or may not be applicable, but I will post them for what they may be worth.

First, if you are looking for an inexpensive cooler for your hydraulic system go to E-Bay and search for coolers from Case / Ingersoll tractors. There are many available and they are purpose designed for the task. Just remember that they are intended to use in the low pressure return line. Even then, remember that the return line can build substantial pressures - particularly in extremely cold weather on start-up.

Second, you might want to consider simply purchasing a Case / Ingersoll tractor with the optional rear hydraulics. In fact, there is even a log splitter available specifically for this purpose which splits traveling in both directions (see photo below). In this fashion the hydraulic source is it's own transportation and with implements it can also serve other duties such as lawn mowing, leaf vacuuming, rototilling, snow blowing, etc. BTW - of course already has its' own hydraulic cooler built in.

The only caveat here is that the Case / Ingersoll hydraulic system uses motor oil instead of hydraulic fluid due to its' hydraulic motors, but I have never heard of that to be a problem for applications like splitting.

JN
....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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boltboss
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 52 Cassopolis, MI
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2014-03-03          189385


....

Picture Link

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2014-03-03          189387


Boltboss,

I agree with you on the warnings pertaining to the installation of used automobile engine coolant radiators.

It would be fine to build this project with a used automatic transmission cooler, or even a used power steering cooler -- as these previously contained oil, and would be very easy to adapt to this project.

Joel ....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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jobone
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 40
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2014-03-03          189388


I am curious what you guys think about adding a cooling radiator to existing stand alone log splitter.

1) At what number of consecutive hours running does the cooling fin become beneficial?

2) Would adding a cooling fin extend the relatively short life of Log Splitter fluid? And by how much do you think?

3) Should the cooling fin have a fan to be truly effective.

4) If a fan should it be thermostatic?

Thanks! ....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-03-03          189391


Jobone,

Great questions....all of them.

Hydraulic oil quickly begins to break down at temperatures above it's rated operating levels. Each hydraulic fluid has its own operating temperature ranges, so it would be impossible to tell you at what temperature the fluid begins to break down. You'll have to check the specs on the fluid you are using.

Generally speaking, cooler is always better. High temperatures will cause seals to fail in motors, pumps, hydraulic cylinders, and control valves. High temps can even cause your high pressure hoses to fail....as these hoses have rated temperature ranges, as well. The most important thing to consider here, however, is the lubricating properties. Oil viscosity is the lubricating factor.....and it falls off sharply when temperature limits are exceeded.

On small equipment items, where we're talking about a few gallons of oil being used, the hydraulic fluid can really take a beating. It's being recycled and pressurized over and over again in a very short amount of time. Heat builds up quickly........even on a log splitter. Hot summer days makes matters worse. Larger oil tanks can help a whole lot here.

A temperature gauge in the hydraulic fluid tank is a very good idea. It should be placed in clear view of the operator. More expensive equipment will be provided with warning lights, alarms, or even emergency shutdown systems when the oil exceeds safe operating temperatures.

The general trend in business today is to keep production costs down, so as to be able to compete with other manufacturers.

Few log splitters will be equipped with temperature gauges on the tank. Fewer yet will be equipped with pressure gauges in the high pressure side of the system. Only one or two manufacturers, that I'm aware of, will install a heat exchanger in the return line.

Just because SO FEW companies install these things, doesn't mean that they aren't needed!

No piece of hydraulic equipment should exceed its rated operating temperature. 190 degrees F. is generally considered to be the upper limit, even if your fluid is rated for higher temps. The hoses and seals will likely fail beyond 190 degrees F.

Oil coolers don't require fans for most small equipment items. However, if you're continuously running a hydraulic motor under extreme loads, or running a production operation using pumps and cylinders.....a cooling fan may be required....as will warning lights, alarms, and/or automatic shutdown safety systems.

Hope this helps.

Joel ....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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boltboss
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 52 Cassopolis, MI
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2014-03-03          189392


A cooler on the return line side of the hydraulic system can be beneficial as pointed out previously. The size (heat exchange area) of the cooler has some bearing on whether a fan is needed - a large area will exchange heat by convection alone). If you go this route you will want to be sure to locate the cooler where it won't be damaged by falling wood, clogged by chips and dust, and especially in a place where you might bump against it since it will be very hot to the touch.

JN ....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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paulmo
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 75 livermore colorado
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2014-03-03          189396


The hydraulic tank I'll be using is 15 gal. but it's useable capacity is about 11 gal. Since 11 gal. is closer to what I'll be needing to match the pump, I felt it would be safer than under sizing the tank and having to stop more often due to heat.
The tank also has a temp guage and site guage on it which should help me to keep paying attention to thoes things !

Paul ....

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Rear Log Splitter Build Project Part 2

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-03-03          189398


I thought I'd pass this along to our members here.

SPLIT-EZ builds the best splitters I've ever seen. They install oil coolers on their larger models.

This one has a thermostat, which energizes the cooling fan when oil temps exceed 140 degrees F.

See link below.

Joel ....


Link:   Split-Ez log splitter Oil Cooler and Fan

 
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