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Rear Log Spliter Build Project Part 1

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paulmo
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 75 livermore colorado
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2014-02-23          189153


Have a question for anyone about powering up my log splitter a diffrent way, I have a 6hp Briggs and Stratton motor currently not in use and was wondering if I add on an 11 GPM concentric haldex 2 stage pump from Northern tool, Would it work, adding with that a 10 gallon hydraulic supply tank? What do you think?

The Splitter hyd. cylinder is 3.5"x24" !

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-02-23          189154


Paulmo,

You're on the right track here.

You might be looking at the same pump I've got here.

Surplus Center # 9-7503-11

This is a two-stage pump, putting out 11 gallons per minute, and requires a minimum of a 5 horse gas engine. Requires a 4F17 pump to motor adapter.

I'll post the link below.

Connect this pump to your gas engine using this adapter.

Surplus Center part number 1-3236

You might find an old hydraulic tank at your local wrecking yard, or maybe off of an old dump truck that might be sitting in the graveyard behind somebody's farm.

Hope this helps.

Joel ....


Link:   Surplus Center Homepage

 
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candoarms
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Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-02-23          189155


Paulmo,

I forgot to tell you that you'll also need a lovejoy coupler to match up with your motor and pump.

It's a 3-piece system using two jaw halves and a rubber spider.

The jaw half for the pump is Surplus Center part #1-3419-E

You'll need the shaft diameter from your motor in order to get the second half of this coupler.

Joel ....

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paulmo
Join Date: Feb 2014
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2014-02-23          189156


I was looking at the very pump you mentioned, The adapter was good to know as well. Not to mention the price! as for the tank, do you think a 10 gallon would be adaquate?
I may have to do alittle looking around to find one.
Thanks Again!

Paul ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-02-23          189157


Paul,

A 10 gallon tank will work just fine. If you happen to notice that things seem to be getting a bit warm while you're splitting on a hot day, just take a break for a bit. Sit down in the shade and have a beer while your hydraulic oil cools down.

You might find that you'll even be able to save more money on this project if you are willing to spend some time shopping around on the internet, or if you happen to find something at a local farm auction.

Nothing wrong with building something with used parts, so long as you're willing to accept the fact that you find an occasional "boat anchor" mixed in with the good stuff.

If you need anything else, please ask.

Joel ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-02-23          189159


Paulmo,

I found this 10 gallon hydraulic tank on Ebay. Seller is in Littleton, Colorado.

See link below.

Joel ....


Link:   10 gallon hydraulic fluid tank

 
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paulmo
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2014-02-23          189167


Joel,

Your amazing, I just left for awhile to haul some hay, and I get home and find you've located a 10 gal. tank, and in Colorado ! Unbelivable !
I'll see if I can locate the guy in Littleton.

Thanks You ! ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-02-23          189168


Paulmo,

You're welcome, sir. Wish I could be there to help you build this splitter. I enjoy this fabrication stuff to no end.

Always happy to help.

Joel ....

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paulmo
Join Date: Feb 2014
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2014-02-24          189175


candoarms,

I like the tank very much... but I haven't gotten hold of the seller just yet, I'm still thinking your idea of a belly mounted tank with legs would be a better fit. because it's a three point mounted splitter there isn't much room to mount anything.
I'm still looking at how I'll mount the motor, could weld a mounting plate off the beam or just leave it loose, still not sure. plan to mesure the shaft on motor and order pump and parts today.
Paul
....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7141 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2014-02-24          189185


Paul,

When we did something similar we made up a box, much like a counter-balance, with a reservoir on 4 legs (like a kids school desk) with the engine and pump in the space below. Keeping the engine below the reservoir helps eliminate cavitation since the fluid primes the pump. We added a trailer hitch on the back to tow a splitter or chipper (both hydraulic drive) and a Quick-Hitch on the 3pth makes setting down the power pack quick and easy.


Best of luck. ....

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paulmo
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2014-02-24          189188


Murf,

More good food for thought,... so your motor and tank are seperate from the splitter? and you tow them to where you need them right? (tank ubove motor?) ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-02-24          189190


Paulmo,

Murf's idea here is a good one, and can save you a pile of money in the end. Rather than have an engine and pump on every piece of equipment, you could have just one.

A portable hydraulic power station can be used on any hydraulic equipment you have.

For example, if you decide that you need to change the shovels on your cultivator, you don't need to hook it up to your big tractor just to raise the shovels off the ground. Just plug your cultivator's lift cylinders into the hydraulic porta-pac. Start the engine and raise the cultivator.

You could use this porta-pac to power a bale elevator, conveyors, hydraulic presses, tree shears, or anything of the sort. Just hook up to your porta-pac outlets and go.

Joel ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7141 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2014-02-24          189193


Paul, man do I wish I had a picture here with me to post! The unit is a heavy angle iron frame slightly wider than the spread of the 3pth. The upper portion is a 25 gallon tank, beneath that on a sort of shelf is a Honda horizontal shaft engine mated to a two stage pump through a love joy coupling. There is also a cooler and 12 volt fan that cools it and a battery (for it and the electric start) and tool bin on top but that's just us.

The entire hyd. power pack (as Cando correctly described it) has a 3pth mount on one side and a 2" trailer hitch receiver on the other side. Since the angle iron frame forms legs it can just be set down near the item it powers and run as a stand-alone unit freeing up the tractor.

BTW, if you get stuck for a reservoir, a propane tank or two make good (and cheap) alternatives.

Best of luck. ....

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paulmo
Join Date: Feb 2014
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2014-02-24          189196


Murf,

What a great idea, I'm going to try to rig something up like that. It sure makes good use of the power source and tank, and being mobile you can be where ever you need to be with it! Wow you guys are ingenious!
Thanks,

Paul ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-02-24          189198


Paulmo,

Here's a basic picture of a portable hydraulic power unit. Add your own three-point hitch mount to the front, and a receiver hitch on the rear. Put some foldable legs under it, and you can set it down where you need it.

Get as fancy as you want with it. Add additional valves so that you can operate several devices at once. Install panel-mounted quick-disconnect outlets for easy hook-ups.

Let your imagination run wild.

See the link below

Joel ....


Link:   Basic Hydraulic Power Unit

 
Picture Link

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paulmo
Join Date: Feb 2014
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2014-02-25          189208


Thanks Joel,

I'm waiting on my pump and parts to arrive. Murfs idea
got me thinking, and looking at the set up you sent the picture of gave me even more to concider, so I plan on looking for alittle more tank capacity,an external filter,
and some type of framework to keep the tank ubove the motor. It might take me awhile to round up everything, but I"ll let you know what I come up with!

Paul ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2014-02-25          189209


Paul,

A few things to consider before putting everything together.

1. The return line to your tank should be considerably larger than your outgoing pressure lines.

2. Murf suggested using old propane tanks as a fluid reservoir. This is a great idea, which could save you a couple of hundred dollars. Surplus Center sells weld-in threaded bungs.

3. A screen on the return line is a good idea. If you install a screen, make sure it's easy to get to for servicing. A 10 micron spin-on filter on the suction side is required. Place the filter between your tank and the inlet side of the pump. Filters are not designed to withstand the pressures your pump will produce on the pressure side.

4. When you design your mounting plate for the motor, make sure you have good access to the motor's crankcase drain plug.

5. The same goes for your hydraulic fluid reservoir. Allow for access to the tank drain.

6. Operator controls can be placed anywhere, but plan it out for operator comfort. It can get to be a long day when you're standing next to one of those noisy engines for hours on end.

7. Pressure hoses can burst. It's always a good ides to run your pressure hoses inside a protective steel tube, or pipe, preventing possible injury to the operator. Size the protective steel tube to allow for easy replacement of the pressure hose, including fittings.

8. A temperature gauge on the tank is a good idea, but not required. It helps the operator know when it's time to give the fluid time to cool.

9. A heat exchanger (radiator) placed in the return line isn't a bad idea. You may want to plan ahead for a place to mount a radiator, or a fairly large heater core, where it won't get damaged. A simple metal frame covered with expanded steel will protect the heat exchanger from damage.

10. It's always a good idea to install a pressure relief valve in your pressure line. They're not expensive. Surplus Center sells these. It should be rated to allow for max flow and pressure from your pump. When pressures are exceeded, the excess fluid goes back to your fluid reservoir through a separate hose attached to your pressure relief valve. Pressure produces HEAT. The hose attached to your pressure relief valve return line should be able to withstand high temps. Standard hydraulic hose is fine here.

Hope this helps.

Joel ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-02-25          189212


Paul,

I've always argued with myself over this issue.....where to put the filter in the hydraulic system.

I prefer to place it in the suction line, between the tank and the pump, thinking that it will protect my pump in the event that some foreign debris somehow enters the fluid reservoir.....but

There are two schools of thought on this subject, and this is one that I thought I should share with you.

Pleas see the following link. VERY INFORMATIVE!

Joel ....


Link:   Hydraulic Suction Line Filters....maybe not a good idea.

 
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paulmo
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 75 livermore colorado
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2014-02-25          189216


Thanks Joel,

Alot to think about,....The check list is very helpful and I'll try to adhere to it. The filter, apart from any additional strainer would seem safe enough if it were perhaps oversized so as not to restrict flow, while being able to handle the pressure as well, What do you think?

I was alittle unsure about the radiator for the same reason, weather or not it would restrict flow. Large enough it would probably be fine.

Also the cylinder on the splitter has a max.2500 PSI, and I wanted to ask your thoughts on PSI requirments of the hoses I'll be using,... What I have are new 3000 PSI hoses.

What do you feel would be adaquate sizing for the Return line to the tank?

Lots for me to think about !

Thanks,

Paul ....

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candoarms
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Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-02-25          189217


Paul,

This is a very interesting topic and much study has been done on it.

Parker Hydraulics is my source for planning out these projects. See the link below.

Using the STAMP method, you can plan out any hydraulic power project correctly.

S = Size
T = Temperature
A = Application
M = Media
P = Pressure

In your case, with 11 gallons per minute at 2500 psi, you will probably need 1-1/4" suction line (no pressure on this one), 1/2" (edited previously stated 3/4") 3000 psi pressure line (outgoing to the splitter cylinder), and 1" return line to the tank (very low pressure on this hose).

The Parker site is fantastic. There's a heap of good information there.

Your suction and return lines can be made of clear, nylon reinforced tubing (prevents collapse and kinks), while your pressure hoses should be rated at 3000 psi....exactly as you now have.

Hope this helps.

Joel ....


Link:   Planning a Hydraulic Project using the STAMP method

 
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paulmo
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2014-02-25          189218


Joel,

I"m getting these lines alittle confused, could you do alittle sketch illustrating which is which ?

Thanks,

Paul ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2014-02-25          189219


Paul,

Give me a few minutes to draw it up. Back shortly.

Joel ....

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candoarms
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Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-02-25          189220


Paul,

There are many schematics for hydraulic power packs available on the web.

Here's one that might suffice. It's simple and to the point.

See link below

Joel ....


Link:   Hydraulic Power Pack Schematic

 
Picture Link

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paulmo
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2014-02-25          189221


Thanks Joel,

I was on the right track after all. With filters and line sizing I was just confused, ( GOT IT NOW!) I'll keep at it.
I appreciate all your help !

Thanks,

Paul ....

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candoarms
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2014-02-25          189223


Paul,

The pressure relief valve is not shown in the schematic I posted earlier.

The pressure relief valve should be placed between the pump and the control valve.

Your pressure relief valve will have three ports...IN from the hydraulic pump; OUT to the control valve; and BYPASS (only if/when pressures exceed max) back to the tank.

Joel ....

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candoarms
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Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-02-25          189224


Paul,

You might want to check the control valve that came installed on your log splitter. It may have a pressure relief valve already installed in it.....eliminating the need for a separate one.

Just remember that if you decide not to install a relief valve in your power pack, the next piece of equipment may not have a relief valve installed in the circuit.

Joel ....

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paulmo
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2014-02-25          189230


Joel,

Thanks again, I'll check the valve to be sure but I think you may be right. It seems there is a relief valve on there, I just over looked it. But your correct about using the set up with other attachments. I'll check it out!
Thanks,

Paul ....

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candoarms
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Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-02-25          189231


Paul,

You could remove the splitter's control valve and mount it on your power pack......eliminating the need for a pressure relief valve when using the power pack on other equipment.

Just a thought.

Joel ....

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paulmo
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2014-02-26          189240


Joel,


I checked out the control valve on the splitter, and it does in fact have a built in adjustable relief valve that
is rated at 3000 PSI, and set at 2000 PSI.

I'm still thinking about leaving it mounted on the splitter, mostly because of it's nearness to the work.
I hope to put the power pac itself several feet away, and alittle down wind due to the noise.

A friend has an 8" x 1/4" x 4' square tube, although a little heavy, would make a nice tank.
I'm also working out a design I can live with that will be mobile enough in our rough terrain.

Paul
....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2014-02-26          189243


Paul, ours a 'second generation' unit, we had built one years ago and learned a lot from it. A customer commented on how great it was and asked if we could make him one. I offered the existing one to him and he jumped at it.

One the second one we incorporated a bunch of changes based on a couple of years of use of the first one.

One of those changes was in the basic plumbing itself. Now bear in mind, ours was designed to be used commercially, so some things might not apply to a homeowner.

We added a ball valve each side of the filter on the return line so that we isolate the filter to change it, this way there is almost no loss of fluid when changing filters. This also makes fluid changes easy since you can use the filter housing (with filter removed) as a low point drain.

We added a second quick disconnect outlet on the pressure side with a log-splitter type with but with a detent in both directions for operating certain equipment.

We added a valve between the pressure and return line. This allows us to do two things. First, if we crack that valve open ever so slightly with the engine running the action of forcing the fluid through a small orifice creates friction and thus heat to speed warm up. More importantly though a quick flip of this valve drains any residual pressure back to the tank so there's no effort (or leakage) when making or breaking connections with the quick disconnect fittings.

We also added a sight gauge on the side of the reservoir which gives a constant visual indication of fluid levels but also indicates water (white or cloudy fluid) and tells us when it's time for a fluid change. A temperature gauge, thermostatically controlled fan on the cooler, a warning alarm for either engine or fluid over temp, an engine temp gauge and gas gauge round out the res of the upgrades over the old unit.

I would say however for a homeowner the combination sight gauge / thermometer would be sufficient for gauges.

The piece of heavy tube you mention would be just around the right size with a total volume of about 13.3 gallons and about 10.6 gallons at 80% full.


Best of luck. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-02-26          189247


Murf,

I've seen some of those commerical power units! Holy cow! Some of them have 300+ horsepower, with 6 cylinder diesels, putting out upwards of 100 gallons per minute.

They're basically tractors, without axles, using that power to operate huge water pumps, hammermills, or tub grinders.

I saw one in use during the flood here a few years ago. A farmer parked a 500 gallon fuel tank next to it, and let it run for weeks on end, completely unattended.

Joel ....

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candoarms
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Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2014-02-26          189250


Well, this is the largest Hydraulic Power Unit I could find by doing a quick search.

Joel ....

Picture Link

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paulmo
Join Date: Feb 2014
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2014-02-26          189251


Murf,

The site guage and thermometer are in the planing, but those ball valves, what a neat idea! I'll be sure put them on as well, Perfect when it comes time to change fluid and filter!

Thanks,

Paul ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-01          189348


Joel,

I have another question regarding the log splitter project.

If I attatch an oil cooler such as a used transmission cooler, or radiator of some kind, to the return line to the tank,...1. will it withstand the pressure? and 2. will something used to cool water be adaquate for use with hydraulic fluid?
I was unsure of the type connections as well due to pressure.
Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Thank you,

Paul

....

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candoarms
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2014-03-01          189351


Paul,

Your return lines will have little or no pressure on them. Any ordinary barbed tube fittings will work.

I use clear, nylon reinforced tubing for return lines on my splitter. There's no pressure on these....but plenty of flow.

Hot hydraulic oil flows like water. A standard radiator will work just fine in the return line. During very cold weather days, your oil will be a bit too thick to flow properly through the radiator, so let the pump work a few minutes, at engine idle, to bring the oil up to temperature. Once the oil reaches about 80 degrees, it will flow very well.

You'll need a large enough radiator to handle the maximum output from your pump. A power steering cooler, or automatic transmission cooler will work for your 11 gallon per minute pump. Larger is better, as it will provide better cooling.

You could install a fan behind the heat exchanger, but it won't be necessary for the pump you are planning on using.

Just make sure your return lines to the cooler are large enough to handle the return flow. You won't be able to use anything less than 3/4" for your application.

Hope this helps.

Joel ....

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DennisCTB
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2014-03-02          189365


Continue reading Rear-Log-Splitter-Build-Project-Part-2 link below ....


Link:   Rear-Log-Splitter-Build-Project-Part-2.

 
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paulmo
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2014-03-02          189369


Thanks Joel,

I should have remembered that the return line carries little pressure. I plan on using 1" hose for both the suction side and return side, and am still trying to locate a used radiator or trans cooler in our area.
I'm also using a 15 gallon tank, which should handle anything I'll be doing, again in the future.

Thank you again!

Paul ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-05          189425


Question for anyone, When using barb fittings on supply and return lines, what is the best method of creating a disconnectable, or quick connect on these lines ?

Thanks,

Paul ....

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candoarms
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2014-03-05          189426


Paul,

If your fittings are NPT male, you can install the following swivel connection, which will allow you to unscrew the barbed fitting without removing the hose from the barb.

The other option is to use a quick disconnect hydraulic fitting, but a matching set (male-female) isn't cheap.

See link below.

If I happened to list the incorrect fitting, Surplus Center has hundreds to choose from.

Joel ....


Link:   Surplus Center FPT swivel connector.

 
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paulmo
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2014-03-05          189427


Joel,

I do understand that connection, but can't figure out what would work best if the lines were full of fluid, short of a regular dicconnect, and I was hoping not to have to use them on both the supply and return lines.

Thanks

Paul ....

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candoarms
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2014-03-05          189428


Paul,

I'm not sure I fully understand.

Please explain your need for a QD fitting in the return line.

Thank you.

Joel ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-05          189430


Joel'

With both the supply and return lines connected to the control valve in an opperating mode all is fine, the control valve being attached to the splitter, and both lines being attached on the power pack at the tank.

Now I'm finished splitting wood for the day, and must seperate the power pack from the splitter! I'd either have to use a Quick connects or ball valves on both sides of the connections, unless there's something I;m missing

Thanks!

Paul ....

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candoarms
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2014-03-05          189432


Paul,

I understand now. Thank you.

Yes, a power pack has a minimum of two quick disconnect outlets. One is on the pressure side. The other is on the return side.

The pressure side requires high pressure QD fittings. The return side can use low pressure fittings like this one...below.

To prevent fluid from running out, you'll need an inline ball valve......but these can be very dangerous, as there's the possibility that you may forget to open it after connecting the power pack to your implement. This would be a very dangerous situation.

You'll find it much safer to install quick disconnects on both lines......and as Murf pointed out, a ball valve between the high and low pressure lines, allowing you to bleed off pressure for easy connection and disconnection.

Joel ....

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candoarms
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2014-03-05          189433


Paul,

This type of fitting will work well in your return line.

My fault.......this one is high pressure with an automatic shut-off, allowing for use without a valve.

See link below

Joel ....


Link:   Quick Connect for return line

 
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paulmo
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2014-03-05          189434


joel'

I messed up, it's only the return line that I need to worry about.
The splitter and the Power pack are seperate, except when the pressure line and return lines are connected. I have quick connects on the pressure side, and need only ask what I need to do to disconnect the return line when not in use?
Sorry for all the confusion, I'm just alittle slow sometimes!

Thanks,

Paul

....

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candoarms
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2014-03-05          189435


Paul,

Not to worry, my friend. I'm trying to keep up, but without a picture it's difficult to visualize on my end.

I believe you'll need two disconnects. It will be just like hooking up a small cultivator to your drawbar.

You'll connect the pressure hose to the pressure outlet, and the return hose to the return outlet.

I understand that you are using barbed fittings, which is just fine for the return circuit, but you'll need to disconnect both hoses when you remove the power pack from the splitter.

The last connector I posted......it will allow for a tiny amount of drainage when disconnecting. That small amount of fluid bleed-off will allow you to connect your hoses easily, as it will remove the pressure in the lines when you disconnect. The downside is the price!

Joel ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-05          189436


Joel,

Thank you for your help, the fitting is completely new to me, and alittle hard to figure out, that said if it does when disconnected stop flow in both directions.... (with the exception of the small amount you mentioned) than thats what I'll have to use.
Using the clear reinforced tubing you suggested, and the size being 1" posed diffrent requirments.
The pump has a 1" barbed male inlet, I assume since there is little pressure there, from tank to pump, male fittings coming and going would be fine, but on the return line, requiring some kind of disconnect, I wasen't sure where to turn.
I think the fitting you've indicated will do the trick!

At this point I'm still acumulating the necessary pices still awaiting some ordered items and getting what I'm able to locally.
I will send along some photo's of the completed Power pack when I get it all together.

Without your help I'd still be trying to figure out how to connect up to the power beyond on my 7360!

Thanks Again!

Paul ....

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candoarms
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2014-03-05          189437


Paul,

I can't wait to see the pictures. It sounds like a whole lot of fun, too. I love building things like this, and I always enjoy the conversations.

Winters can get to be very long here in North Dakota. If not for this discussion board, I'd have a very bad case of cabin fever.

I hope everyone here is understanding of the fact that this is a form of winter therapy for me.

Joel ....

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DennisCTB
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2014-03-06          189438


Quote:
Originally Posted by paulmo | view 189436
.....I will send along some photo's of the completed Power pack ....


Please post any pictures you have to this thread I am sure all members are interestd :-) ....

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Murf
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2014-03-06          189445


A couple of points here for your consideration.

First, while in perfect conditions PEX (clear braided poly line) can be used for return line, we often run into less than perfect conditions. As the hydraulic fluid heats up, and it will get quite hot, the PEX line turns into wet spaghetti. All it would take is a bad kink in the line and a less than tight enough clamp and you'd have a hose whipping around spraying hot fluid on everything, and everyone, nearby. The cost of a second length of pressure line is nothing in comparison to the increased safety it offers.

Second, be VERY careful in using a power pack unless it has an integral pressure relief valve or control valve with pressure relief. It's surprisingly easy to catch on a hose and most QD fittings have a break away feature. If either line became disconnected with the engine running it would only take a split second for pressure to spike far beyond the burst point of some part of the unit. High pressure fluid is nothing to play with!


Best of luck. ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-06          189460


Murf,

Thanks for the tip on the suction and return hoses!
I have a question,... Have you ever used the reuseable type hydraulic fittings? and have they worked out well?
Their new to me,... and due to the 1" size of those hoses I thought using that type fitting might save a few bucks! What do you think?

Thanks,

Paul ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-06          189461


Dennis,

Thanks for suggesting photo's of my power pack project for the log splitter.
However, at this point I'm still gathering materials and reasigning stuff I had on hand to make it all work.
Long story short, it's just pieces, and I hope withen a few days to begin the actual assembly, and will be sure to take some pics of the progress.
Also I'm having to wait on some ordered items and things I'll need locally which all takes time.

Thanks for your intrest!

Paul ....

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candoarms
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2014-03-06          189464


Murf,

I believe your comments pertaining to high pressure warnings are some of the most important made here.

Every power pack should have a pressure relief valve installed immediately downstream from the hydraulic pump. A return line should be plumbed in back to the tank from the pressure relief valve's bypass port.

I also like your idea of placing high pressure hoses in the return circuit.

For some odd reason it slipped my mind that this power pack could be used for demanding applications, causing temperatures to exceed that of the return hose ratings. Thanks for bringing that up. My bad!

Joel ....

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Murf
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2014-03-07          189466


Paul, for what you're doing those ends work just fine, they're often referred to as "repair fittings".

I don't know what area you live in, but a lot of retail outlets that sell hydraulic supplies will do the crimping for free. You buy the lines and fittings and they crimp them all together for you at no charge.

Also, don't forget that depending on how the various bits of the system line up you may well have to spring on a few extra bucks for some swivel fittings in order to be able to do up both ends of a hose. Otherwise you have to be very attentive to male and female fittings and where they go in the system.


Best of luck. ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-07          189475


Thanks Guys,

My slpitter control valve has it's own relief valve on it,
Do you think there would be a need to add an additional relief valve, routing the overflow back to the tank or am I ok with what I already have?

And thanks for the reminder about swivel connectors,...my list of fittings is longer than my arm!

Thanks,

Paul ....

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candoarms
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2014-03-07          189477


Paulmo,

The biggest fear here, in your case, is that you could start the power pack without having the splitter attached. With no place for the high pressure fluid to go, it will literally explode a hose, valve, or SOMETHING.

Even if your splitter is attached, but the hose connections aren't properly made, your power pack will develop huge pressure that has to go somewhere. This is a very scary situation.

A relief valve in the high pressure hose, just after the pump, will provide you with a whole lot of peace of mind, and a very high level of safety.

Even if YOU know better, there's no way of knowing who else might decide to fiddle with your power pack when you aren't around.

Hope this helps.

Joel ....

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Murf
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2014-03-07          189478


Paul, as Joel mentioned it is imperative that any time you have a pump that could be operated in what's called a "dead head" situation, where the fluid coming out of the pump has nowhere to go, there is a relief valve there to protect the system.

For my $0.02 worth, I would recommend doing as I posted earlier. Have a both a valve (with pressure relief of course) and a pair of unregulated QD fittings on the power pack. I.E. 2 pressure QD's and 2 return line QD's. This gives you the ability to operate other items than the splitter with nothing but the power pack.

Ours is this way and it's a very handy feature, we can run hydraulic winches, hydraulic augers needing high flow rates, hydraulic jacks, nearly anything. We've even used it to power a disabled excavator by using the power pack instead of the units own engine.



Best of luck. ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-07          189479


Joel,

I agree with you, so I will add a pressure relief valve to my list. The valve has a pre set relief pressure at 2000 PSI would adding another require the same?

The biggest problem right now is getting all the components, fittings etc. I've done some planning ahead, but until I start putting it all together, the lenghts of hose, and clearences are undecided.
Prior to all of the mechanics, I'll need to weld up a mounting frame for the tank and perhaps a whole base to
carry everything, am still undecided on that part.

At any rate, it is fun being alittle inventive and a great winter project!

Paul
....

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candoarms
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2014-03-07          189480


Paul,

Your pressure relief valve on the power pack should be set about 200 psi higher than any implement you'll be operating with it.

For example, if you're splitting wood and you come across a tough-to-split log, you'll want maximum pressure to your splitter. You wouldn't want your power pack's relief valve to begin dumping fluid back to the tank when you need the pressure to finish your job.

If you have a hydraulic pressure gauge, you can set the pressure on the power pack's relief valve at 2200 psi. Your splitter will then have all the power it will need.

Hope this helps.

Joel ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-14          189553


Guys,

Everything is moving along with the power pack build, all be it slow. Some of my original design plans have changed some and that will become evident when I take photo's of the completed set up.

I have another question, and it might sound silly to ask,but....I want to put a pressure guage just beyound the pressure relief valve, down stream of the pump, and am confused as to what to look for?

With all the guage choices out there, I dont know what would be best.
I'm guessing a fluid filled type, and large enough to read at a glance would be correct, but thought I'd check with you first!

Thanks,

Paul ....

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candoarms
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2014-03-14          189554


Paul,

You are correct on the fluid filled gauge. You'll need that in order to prevent the needle from jumping all over the place while in operation.

Your power pack should be capable of producing about 3000 psi, though you'll have the relief valve set a bit lower than that. You'll want a gauge that tops out around 3000 psi.

I usually place a piece of red tape on the gauge, just above the desired pressure reading. With just a quick glance, I can then see if the needle is pointing at the tape. You really don't even to be able to read the numbers on the gauge with that setup.

A fairly large face on the gauge......about 3" in diameter....will allow you place the tape in a spot that doesn't cover a huge range.

Hope this helps.

Joel

....

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paulmo
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2014-03-14          189565


Joel,

Thanks for the tip on the red tape, Neat idea!
I'm going to try to locate a gauge here locally, since the other's I've seen on line are smaller.

Thanks Again!

Paul ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-21          189707


Hello everyone,

Just fired up the power pack, a kind of test run to see if things are flowing properly, and to check for leaks.

All seems to be working fine, just one minor drip, I'll take care of.
I have a question though,.... My pressure gauge is not moving off O, I can't figure out why.

I wanted to adjust my pressure relief valve to 2200 PSI, the factory setting is at 1500 PSI, but without the gauge working I have no idea what to do.

Any suggestions? The gauge is a O-3000 PSI fluid filled type!

Thanks,

Paul ....

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Murf
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2014-03-21          189708


Paul, congrats!

Without a schematic, or at least a description, of the system there's no way to even guess at what the issue might be.


Best of luck. ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-22          189714


Two views of the set up. ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-22          189715


Another view. ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-22          189718


Murf,

Thanks for getting back to me about the gauge question!

If you can see the gauge in the photo's it is located in this order, from the pressure side of the pump, the pressure relief valve, then the gauge, and on to the control valve on the splitter.

I was wondering if there could be air traped at the base of the gauge since it sits at the top of a tee fitting?
What do you think?

Thanks,

Paul
....

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candoarms
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2014-03-23          189739


Paulmo,

Your pressure gauge should read zero until you place a log in the splitter. Without some form of work being done, no pressure will build up in the system.

You could also try running the cylinder to full open or full closed position. Once the cylinder reaches the end of its stroke, the pressure will quickly begin to build. I'd start with a log, as this will allow the pressure to build slowly, so that you can watch for leaks.

Hope this helps.

Joel ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-23          189743


Joel,

Thank you for getting back on the gauge issue!
I did run some wood through to see if I'd get any reaction, and just as you I would, I did, I then split a dozen or so pieces to check for leaks and to test some tough knots, and all worked out fine with the exception of one small leak.

I guess I was expecting some flow reading on the gauge when not under load, and that's what had me confused.

I wanted to explain some of the obvious changes that resulted in the end splitter / power pack...
I decided to mount both the splitter and everything else on a small trailer, just to make it easy to get around while still having the capability of powering other pieces of equipment.

I didn't put the quick connects on although I have them,but was wanting to improve on the design of things and will include them later, as the whole setup is very flexable.

I know some will wonder why I didn't purchase an all in one splitter to begin with, but that would take us back to where I first started asking how to power this 3 point splitter ( "THAT I JUST BOUGHT" )while not using my tractor hydraulics.
All in all, I wouldn't have done anything any differntly.
This has been a learning experience, a chance to do something I could call myown while conversing with and learning from guys I may never meet.
I am a woodworker by trade and an artist, not the most comfortable attempting mechanical things, but it's been the best of experiences, and one I wouldn't trade for anything.

Thank you Joel, and everyone for your knowledge and patience in walking me through this project.

Now I'll get to splittin wood !

Thank you !

Paul ....

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candoarms
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2014-03-23          189745


Paul,

Well, sir, for a woodworker and an artist, you sure seem to have a good eye for mechanical devices! The power pack seems to be well planned out and assembled in a very neat and orderly fashion. I'm very happy with your effort and the neatness of your work.

If you have a pressure relief valve immediately downstream from your pump.....in the pressure line....you could now plug off the pressure hose downstream from the relief valve and watch the pressure climb to the set relief point.

Remember now.....the pressure relief valve on your power pack should be set at about 2500 psi.

Your log splitter should have the pressure relief valve set at about 2000 psi.

If you run your splitter cylinder to full extension and hold the valve, you should see your pressure gauge climb to 2000 psi.......at which time the log splitter's relief valve will begin to dump oil back to the tank. It will hold at 2000 psi even while the relief valve goes into bypass mode.

If you close off the pressure hose immediately downstream from your power pack's relief valve, you should be able to watch the pressure climb to 2500 psi before the relief valve on the power pack begins dumping back to the tank. It should hold at 2500 psi while in bypass mode. You'll hear your pump begin to strain.....and this will quickly begin to heat the oil......so you don't want to run the system too long with the pressure hoses plugged.

I again congratulate you on the work you did on the power pack. It looks great! I hope you get a lot of use out of it.

Glad to be of some help to you.

Joel ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-26          189778


candoarms,

Joel,

I have another question, I went about repairing the leak in the system that I mentioned eairler by adding a swivel fitting to solve the problem, in so doing alot of fluid drained, but was captured.

My problem is that I've unwittingly introduced air into the system and cannot start the motor.

What would you recomend I do at this point? I was thinking of pulling the plug on the motor, and with the fuel in the off position, pulling slowly again and again to manually move the fluid through to the tank where it will vent any traped air.
What do you think?

Thanks,

Paul ....

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2014-03-26          189782


Paul,

I'll try to help you here....but.....

I'm not sure what you mean by "Cannot start the motor".

The engine will not start, or you don't want to start it with air in the system?

Air in the system is common after doing any service work on hydraulic systems.

The best way to correct the problem is to start the engine and let it run at idle speed. Any air in the system will be pushed to the reservoir, where it will escape through the breather cap.

Air in the system will cause cavitation in your hydraulic pump, which can damage the pump at high rpms..so run it at idle speed while you cycle the log splitter cylinder a few times to full extension and retraction.

You may notice some air bubbles in the oil after shutting down the engine. This is normal. Let the power pack sit for a few minutes after warming it up. The air in the oil will work its way to the top of the oil, where it will then escape to atmosphere through the breather cap on your reservoir.

The same applies after changing the hydraulic fluid on your tractor, or any hydraulic equipment. Always run at idle speed until the system warms up. The air will purge from the system on its own. Top off the oil after all air has been purged.

Hope this helps.

Joel ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-26          189783


Joel,

After replacing the fitting and replacing the lost fluid to the tank, I attempted to start the motor to check for any leaks.
The motor recoil was difficult to pull and the motor could not generate enough RPM to start.
I can pull slowly on the rope and see that the shaft of both motor and pump turn but pulling rapidly ( as in trying to start it ) has too much resistance.

I thought by pulling slowly on the rope, with the plug removed from the motor, and the fuel shut off I'd be able to move everything through the system until the pull felt more normal, enough so the motor would have a chance to start.

Does that sound workable?

Thanks,

Paul ....

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candoarms
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2014-03-26          189784


Paul,

It sounds to me as though you have a deadhead condition, in which the oil flow is blocked off from the outgoing, pressure side of the pump. If this is the case, you'll have a devil of a time trying to start that engine.

Is a valve closed? Maybe you don't have a good connection on the log splitter couplers? Something is causing an oil restriction in the pressure side. Maybe your log splitter valve control lever isn't in the neutral position?

Hope this helps.

Joel ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-26          189785


Joel,

I will check again to be sure everything is connected correctly, and there are no blockages.

I'll get back to you after looking things over again.

Paul ....

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candoarms
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2014-03-26          189786


Paul,

I'm outside working on an oil change in my tiller gearboxes today, as well as engine oil changes in the many small engines around the place. It's windy and cold, so I'm coming in for coffee every so often, and to warm up. I'll check the message boards again when I return.

Joel ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-26          189787


Joel,

Please don't let me interupt your work, and Thanks for all your help.
I looked everything over, nothing seem out of order.
I should explain that the leak that was fixed was a nipple on the pressure side of the pump, connecting the pressure side of the pump to the pressure relief valve.

I simply added the swivel and reconnected everything.
While doing so the fluid in the pressure line drained into a clean jug until I had things ready to reconnect.

After that I replaced the fluid to the tank, and tried to start the motor to check for leaks.

Keep warm! I have to admire your taking on that task!


....

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candoarms
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2014-03-26          189789


Paul,

I hope you understand that when troubleshooting even the smallest questions must be asked.

If nothing else changed.....are you sure there wasn't something inside that fitting, blocking the fluid travel? Maybe some shipping/packing material? Did you blow through it before installing it?

If you remove that pressure line from the pump and connect a line from the pump straight back to the reservoir, you'll easily be able to spin that motor over.

SOMETHING....I have no idea what.....is causing back pressure on your pump. I'd start with the fitting you replaced. It could have an internal obstruction, or maybe even a manufacturing defect.

I'm stumped.

Joel ....

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Murf
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2014-03-26          189790


As Joel so rightly pointed out, if the only thing you changed was a fitting, that's the place to start for sure.

Best of luck. ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-26          189792


Joel,

Looking over exactly what I did to install the swivel,I remember I also had to dicconnect the Bypass from the relief valve. so... ( from the pump, through the relief valve the fluid goes through the pressure gauge and on to the splitter valve ) With the bypass going from the pressure relief valve straight to the tank.)
Due to the connections, I had to unhook the nipple at the pressure side of the pump, and the bypass hose going back to the tank.....Both were draining into the jugs while I made my repair. After that I reconnected things.

I was certian everything was clean, but may have missed something.

If I were to crack a fitting, say the swivel, not much but enough to relise any traped pressure, then try starting the motor, would that do any good?

I too am stumped, maybe disconnecting again, inspecting, and reconnecting might be my best option.
I'll do whatever I need to do, but have to get it going.

Thanks Joel!

Paul ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-26          189795


Joel, and Murf,

I have a working splitter once again!
I'm almost too embarrassed to admit, the problem was an oversite on my part.
In my rush to get the swivel connector in town, I grabbed what I thought was a 1/2" MIP x 1/2" fip swivel, and it was but one with a 1/16" restriction inside,I didn't read the fine print on the bottom of the package, needless to say fluid was not going through that.

I drilled out the fitting, and was careful to make sure all the filings were cleaned out with a vaccuum, and air hose,reconnected it, started the motor, no problem,no leaks, and now I'm looking forward to lots of split wood.

I want to say thank you once again, I guess this learning experience is still teaching me a few things!

Thank You!

Paul
....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2014-03-26          189798


Well Paul,

I want to thank you for helping ME out.

I never knew that a guy could purchase a fitting with a flow restriction port already installed in it. I always thought those flow restrictors were something a guy would have to purchase separately!

I'm so happy to hear that you have that beautiful machine up and running again. Great news!

Your friend,

Joel ....

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candoarms
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2014-03-26          189799


Paul,

By the way.......

Should you ever decide to install a log lift on your splitter, you'll want one of those restictor fittings.


Place that restrictor fitting in the pressure line going to the base end of the log lift cylinder, with the rod end of the cylinder connected to the lift table. This will slow the lift speed, so that you don't end up launching a heavy log through the kitchen window, into the wife's fresh apple pie. LOL

Joel ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-27          189810


Joel,

Thanks for the tip, My wife and I got a kick out of a log flying through the window into her freshly baked pie!

I knew there had to be a purpose for such a fitting, but what a radical reduction, I suppose there are fittings for just about any application.

I split wood today with snow in the forcast, and being nearly out. The splitter worked perfectly, and the system ran nice and cool, not showing any sign of strain.

I still haven't adjusted my pressure relief valve but want to do that soon. I've watched the pressure gauge and it shows exactly what the Prince relief valve indicated, it is factory set at 1500 PSI....so

With the motor off, if I loosen the lock nut and turn the adjusting nut say 1/4 turn, retighten the lock nut, restart the motor, and retest my limits, will that work?

You've explained this in an eariler post, and I'll go back and reread what your comments were, but thats about it as far as getting things in there working order.

Hope you were able to get the oil changes taken care of without freezing in the process, I'm the same when it comes to getting stuff done, "weather or not" and it
seems there's always a way!

Thanks,

Paul ....

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candoarms
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2014-03-27          189811


Paul,

During normal operation, your power pack should produce more pressure than your log splitter will ever require. The relief valve on your power pack is there only for safety purposes. During normal work, the power pack's relief valve should never open.

The purpose of the hydraulic power pack's relief valve is to prevent catastrophic failure resulting in injury or death, should some extraordinary event take place.

The relief valve on the power pack should be set at a pressure at least 200 psi higher than the highest pressure your other pieces of equipment will require for normal operation.

If your log splitter requires 2000 psi before the relief valve opens, you'll want to set your power pack's relief valve at about 2500 psi.

Should you have another piece of equipment requiring an operating pressure of 2500 psi, then you'll want to set your power pack's relief valve to 2700 psi.

2700 psi is generally considered to be the maximum pressure limit, as most hoses are rated to 3500 psi. You'll want to maintain a comfortable safety factor at all times.

If you can get by with lower pressures than I listed above, then by all means do. Lower pressures provide a greater margin of safety.

The idea here is to let the relief valve in the splitter valve do all the work. The relief valve on the power pack should never open during normal operation.

Your adjustment procedures are correct, but you'll want to set the power pack's relief valve first. Get that set to 2500 psi, THEN adjust the splitter's relief valve to 2000 psi.

If you attempt to perform this procedure in the reverse order, you'll never reach 2500 psi, due to the splitter's relief valve opening first.

Hope this helps.

Joel ....

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paulmo
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2014-03-28          189819


Joel,

I appreciate your explaining the pressure setting requirments on both the splitter valve, and the power pack relief valve, and I think I understand the differences, but my confusion lies in making the adjustments seperatly.

The splitter's relief setting as it was delivered is at 2000 PSI, The cylinder is rated at 2500 PSI... so I assume I would leave it alone, correct?

The Prince relief valve on the power pack was factory set at 1500 PSI, and can go from 0-3000 PSI... And with that I'd want to adjust it to about 2200 PSI.

In your eariler post you discussed plugging or blocking the pressure line downstream of the relief valve in order to set it's pressure requirments.
How would I do that? besides the fluid gauge, the line goes from the pressure relief valve straight to the control valve on the splitter... so would I just hold the control valve in the open position and watch the pressure climb, or am I missing something?

Sometimes, it takes me awhile to visualize the processes!

Thanks Again!

Paul ....

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candoarms
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2014-03-28          189820


Paul,

Yes.....my fault. I'm trying to visualize this whole thing in my mind and sometimes I forget the layout.

I was assuming that you had a ball valve downstream from your pump. Without a ball valve between your pump and splitter, you won't be able to adjust the power pack's relief valve. Plugging the pressure hose will prevent you from being able to start the engine.....as you've already discovered.

OK.....another option for you. Hold the splitter control valve down. Your cylinder will extend to max length. At that time the pressure quickly begins to build. One of the two relief valves will then begin dumping back to the tank.

No need to shut down the engine. Just release the splitter control valve and make your adjustment. Once again hold the splitter valve down. Adjust your power pack's relief valve, 1/4 turn at a time, until the log splitter's relief valve begins dumping. At that point you'll have the relief valves set properly for normal operation.

I'm not a teacher, so please bear with me. My explanations could often be improved.

Joel ....

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paulmo
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2014-04-05          189935


Joel,

Hello, I'm back again with yet another question!
All has been going well with the power pack and log splitter, but I've yet to make thoes relief valve adjustments we've discussed.

My question is just how do I adjust the relief valve on the power pack? It's a prince RD 1800, I ordered from the Surplus Center,... it looks straight forward at first glance, but when I've attempted to change it, it always tightens back to it's original position, Am I missing something?

Any suggestions would be very appreciated!

Thank You,

Paul ....

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Murf
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2014-04-06          189945


Paul,

I wouldn't get too concerned about adjusting the relief point settings. As an example, a 4" cylinder getting just 1,500 psi will create almost 10 tons of force.

We split some pretty nasty, knotty hard Maple with a lot less than that.




Best of luck. ....

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paulmo
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2014-04-06          189952


Murf,

Thanks for the tip, I realy haven't had any trouble splitting even knotty stuff, but I was concerened because if I could adjust it higher it wouldn't have to start dumping fluid back to the tank as often, thus keeping the fluid cooler. Does that sound right?

At any rate I should know how to adjust it if I needed to!

I think I just need to loosen the lock nut alittle more in order to give me room to adjust the setting.???

Thanks Murf!

Paul ....

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candoarms
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2014-04-06          189954


Paul,

You are correct. Each time your relief valve opens, a large amount of heat is generated.

In a perfect world, your splitter shouldn't go into bypass until the cylinder reaches the end of its stroke. There are exceptions to this, such as when attempting to split through a very stubborn crotch in a hunk of firewood.

If your splitter is frequently going into bypass during a normal splitting cycle, you'll need to increase the pressure setting.

This is done by loosening the locking nut and then turning the screw clockwise 1/4 turn at a time, until the desired maximum pressure is reached. To reach maximum pressure, you'll need to extend the splitter's cylinder to max length, then leave it there. Continue to run the cylinder out after each 1/4 turn on the screw. You should be able to watch the pressure increase on your gauge, until you're happy with it.

Hope this helps.

Joel

....

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paulmo
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2014-04-07          189967


Joel,

Thanks, this does help, sometimes the simplest of things can get me hung up!

Thanks,

Paul ....

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