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Forums > Active Threads > Other Tractor Brands > Jinma Farmpro Agracat Nortrac

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Farm Pro 2425 4WD working

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farmpro_newb
Join Date: Jul 2011
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2011-07-25          179525


Hi and greetings to all here. I am new to tractors as I am sure will be obvious from my many questions and posts so my apologies upfront.
I finally worked on and got my 2004 2425 up and running and am playing with it a bit in my yard. I quickly got it stuck trying to push a medium size pine over with the FEL. All this while in 2WD. I thought I could finish the job or have better luck by putting it into 4WD. The lever seemed to engage ok but saw little difference in power or any benefit at all. My rear tires still spun but I never saw either of the front ones spin or did they seem to be benefiting me. Is there a quick and easy way to tell if my 4WD is engaging and working as it should? Thanks!


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farmpro_newb
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2011-07-25          179526


PS: If the is a neutral position between 2WD - 4WD it appears the shifting travel to go to 2WD is (top of control lever) about 4 inches but towards the 4wd position only about 1 inch. Am I even getting i it into 4WD? I put it into what I thought was 4WD, raised the front tires off the ground using the FEL yet the front tires spun easily by hand with only a slight clicking sound while spinning. Maybe I am not even getting her into 4WD at all? If not, what might I be doing wrong here?

Thanks again,
Newb ....

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greg_g
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2011-07-25          179527


Many first time owners experience equipment failures when learning the difference between tractor work and bulldozer work. Tractors are for pulling, front loaders are for lifting/carrying, bulldozers are for pushing. Opinions and conditions vary, but I'd consider pushing over medium sized trees to be dozer work.

Anyway. Rears spinning with no rotation at the fronts definitely means 4wd not fully engaged for some reason. Several things can cause this, a very common one is the driveshaft has become disconnected. But being stuck against a tree is not a very good situation in which for inspect/repair. Because you need to jack the front end off the ground to perform a test to help isolate the location of the problem. Hard to do that stuck up against a tree.

Can you tow it backwards to a flat surface somewhere to perform this test, and so that - if necessary - you could get underneath to remove the driveshaft housing? I say this because there are many small parts that may fall out. And they ALL have to go back in to get the shaft reconnected properly.

//greg// ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2011-07-25          179528


Hello and welcome to Tractor Point. We ned some new menbers with questions and every new poster has some answers to help us old timers too.
I don't like to welcome a new member with a scolding, BUT you tell of trying to push over a tree with your front end loader. Lots of people have been killed or bad hurt doing just that and not just people who were new to tractors. I lost a friend a few years ago, he was an a man in his fifties who had ran tractors since a kid. He was trying to push over a good sized tree that just wouldn't go down after being sawed off. I did this myself too, just once, but was lucky and didn't get hurt, I've never did that again.
Frank. ....

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greg_g
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2011-07-25          179529


Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpro_newb | view 179526
PS: If the is a neutral position between 2WD - 4WDit appears the shifting travel to go to 2WD is (top of control lever) about 4 inches but towards the 4wd position only about 1 inch. Am I even getting i it into 4WD? I put it into what I thought was 4WD, raised the front tires off the ground using the FEL yet the front tires spun easily by hand with only a slight clicking sound while spinning. Maybe I am not even getting her into 4WD at all? If not, what might I be doing wrong here?Thanks again,Newb

The clicking noise is not normal, but we'll get back to that. The tractor almost always needs to be motion to get a positive engagement between the transmission and the transfer case. Specifically, the front differential is connected full time to the front of the driveshaft. The 2wd/4wd select lever engages the back end of the driveshaft. So when the fronts are turning, so is the driveshaft. But with all geared devices, they have to line up to engage. So the front tires need to rotate slightly which turns the driveshaft which lines up the gears which permits the lever to slide into the correct position.

Again, can you get something in there to tow the tractor out of the ruts?

//greg// ....

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farmpro_newb
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2011-07-25          179530


Thanks for such a quick reply greg!

I got the tractor unstuck and all. My concern is I bought what I thought was a tractor with working 4WD and now am trying to ascertain if it works, how well it works and I suppose when to use it. I thought I read somehwere here that using 4WD and the FEL at the same time is not advisable? My manuals are not real bounties of information here.... Am I right in thinking that if the 4WD is indeed engaged and I get the front wheels up off the ground with the engine turned off the front wheels should not turn easily or freely? Thanks again. ....

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farmpro_newb
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2011-07-25          179531


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 179529
The clicking noise is not normal, but we'll get back to that. The tractor almost always needs to be motion to get a positive engagement between the transmission and the transfer case. Specifically, the front differential is connected full time to the front of the driveshaft. The 2wd/4wd select lever engages the back end of the driveshaft. So when the fronts are turning, so is the driveshaft. But with all geared devices, they have to line up to engage. So the front tires need to rotate slightly which turns the driveshaft which lines up the gears which permits the lever to slide into the correct position. Again, can you get something in there to tow the tractor out of the ruts?//greg//



Thanks again all for the help and advice, is appreciated!

I call it a medium size tree but is really 2" round.
Anyway, the tractor is in my garage and all. I surely seemed to feel it engage into 4WD but which tests might I now perform to know? with it in 4 or 2 WD and the front tires off the ground I turn the right side tire forward and the left side goes opposite. It is not a clicking sound so much as a slight differential sound but doesn't seem too horrible. AT any rate I will do my best to use the tractor for it's intended purposes. ....

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greg_g
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2011-07-25          179532


Ok, front wheels turning oppositely with no unusual noise is what you want to see, which confirms that it's rotating normally in 2wd. The front diff that is. This doesn't necessarily mean the driveline is connected properly. Next move the lever to 4wd with the tranny in neutral, and both wheels should turn in the same direction. Lever in 4wd and tranny in gear should result in your being unable to rotate either front wheel. You've already "passed" test #1, so next please tell me what happens when you attempt the next two tests.

Remember - assuming the driveline is properly connected at both ends - you may have to move one or both of the front tires to get the lever to move fully into the 4wd position.

//greg// ....

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richwaugh
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2011-07-25          179533


You may not be getting the lever all the way into the 4WD position - as noted, the gears have to slip a bit to line up and get it in. I put mine in 4WD while the transmission i sin gear and ease the clutch a bit while putting pressure on the lever to get things to slide home. When in 4WD the front wheels will not free wheel.

99% of the time when the 4WD is not functional on one of these tractors, the problem is with the coupling balls in the front driveshaft. It isn't difficult to fix, but you need to be parked on a level, CLEAN surface so that when you drop the driveshaft you will be able to find all the little balls that fall on the ground. There is a circular spring clip that holds the receiver for the balls in place against a spring and sometimes that clip comes loose and the coupling opens up, dropping the balls out. The power transmission shaft from the transfer case is splined and the driveshaft has a cup receiver that holds six balls that go in the splines and into corresponding slots in the cup to couple the driveshaft to the power shaft.

Getting the drivehaft to drop out can be a bit entertaining as it is a very snug fit - I had to lift my front wheels off the ground to get a tiny bit of wiggle in the front differential so it would come out. There is a rubber sleeve that must be pushed back out of the way to access the coupling end, too. It is fairly straightforward and self-explanatory once you get under there and get the sleeve back. You'll want to have some stiff grease on hand when you do it - you use it to hold the balls in place while re-assembling things. If your spring clip is broken or missing you can use a stainless steel worm-gear hose clamp instead. ....

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farmpro_newb
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2011-07-25          179534


Ok Thanks both Rich and Greg,

Looks like I need to drop the drive shaft then, as in any combination of neutral/in gear/in 4WD/2WD The front wheels when off the ground rotate thru the front differential but always in opposite directions. I will take it apart in my garage and see what it looks like and get back to you. Hopefully today. HOT here tho!! Wow. Gonna put cardboard down too as I have a stone floor and pieces get lost in them ez.. Thanks so much tho! ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
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2011-07-25          179535


You asked when you should use 4. The same as when you should use the rear differential lock (which I expect your tractor has), namely:

Whenever and only when you need the extra traction at that moment as shown by wheel slipping. Using either in the absence of slippage can cause strain or damage.

The more weight in the bucket the more likely you want 4. But that won't DOUBLE your traction because most of the weight and tread is at the back, and you likely can't lock the fronts together so "4" is often really 3.

I'm not always clear -- let me know if you want elaboration. ....

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greg_g
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2011-07-25          179536


Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpro_newb | view 179534
Looks like I need to drop the drive shaft then,
this is where a magnetic tray comes in handy. Some of the balls may already have dropped out, so be prepared to catch them as you lower the driveshaft guard. With the balls in place, the shaft is held in place by an internal spring (#18). Said spring is located in the front half of the shaft. So once you have loosened and pulled back the covers (#15) it might be easier to remove the shaft by grasping the rear, pushing forward, and pulling down. It must be pushed far enough forward to clear the transfer case output shaft (#14). If you do it the other way around, it must be pushed rearward far enough for coupler #1 to clear the front diff input shaft. The diagram also shows the 12 balls (#3) some of which you can expect to try and get away.

As far as 4wd and the loader, the problem is a comparatively weak front axle on the Jinma 200 series. I say comparatively, because there are other Chinese tractors that you can use the loader and 4wd - that have a far far lower failure rate. Anyway. Many Jinma 200 series owners have complained that they were denied warranty coverage for such failures, citing owner abuse. Honest and forthright dealers warn 200 series buyers up front of the potential for problems if/when using the loader in 4wd.


//greg// ....

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richwaugh
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2011-07-25          179538


Auerback said, "The more weight in the bucket the more likely you want 4."

That may be so, but the more weight you have in the bucket, the more reason NOT to use the 4WD. Weight in the bucket dramatically shifts the weight transfer to the front wheels and that is precisely how you break axles and driveshafts in the front drive assembly. As Greg noted, the 200 series Jinmas are made pretty lightweight and the front drive components may not handle the engine torque with a load in the bucket. If you have slipping problems in 2WD try ti differential lock first - you'll be surprised at what a difference it can make in getting you moving. The 4WD should be reserved for stuff like mowing and pulling, with no load in the bucket.

Where many guys get into real problems is using the loader like a bulldozer. When the bucket is down and pushing hard, the weight transfers from the rear wheels to the fronts, which decreases traction at the rear wheels. When they start slipping people put it in 4WD to counteract that and promptly break the front drive assembly somewhere. A CUT loader is a shovel for moving stuff, it is NOT a dozer blade.

The front wheel drive is really "front wheel assist", more than 4WD. The physics of two drive trains having vastly different wheel sizes indicates that the front drive assembly is not intended for full-time use, or hard use.

The 300 series Jinma is built far heavier than the 200 series and this is not such an issue with them, but I still recommend being very careful about using 4WD when using the loader. You aren't going t break anything by using the differential lock, so use it as your first resort and the front drive as your last resort. ....

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farmpro_newb
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2011-07-25          179539


OK, So cool on all great advice, info and posts here. In some ways I feel I could be better off not even fixing the 4WD and living with the tractor as is using the diff. lock instead if getting stuck. (which I knew little of until reading more on it here). Maybe less damage to my front end and front axle etc. However If I were to have a place to get to and away from, which would involve me going up and down a steep slope wouldn't the tractor being in 4WD be advantageous there?
Comments? thanks ....

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greg_g
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2011-07-25          179540


Yeah, I'd fix it. When you've got diff lock engaged and both rears start spinning, you'll be surprised how much assist you can get from engaging those little front tires. With both rears spinning in their ruts, the fronts can in many cases actually pull you out. Or at a minimum get you to the point where you can then rock yourself out.

//greg// ....

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farmpro_newb
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2011-07-25          179541


Greg, in your print explanation when you said pull back the covers #15 did you actually mean #s 10 & 37? On my same print in my manual it shows that #15s are clamps that hold the #14 rubber pipe on. Must both end covers come off? I took the front cover off pulled the rubber dust guard away yet saw no little balls there whatsover. Gonna try the other side now the side which actually goes into the transfer case side. ....

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farmpro_newb
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2011-07-25          179542


OK, I pulled the other side and found 5 or 6 balls floating there and 5 or 6 in the coupling, as well as a broken almost whole circlip. Seems the front steel balls broke loose from the front tire side and gravitated towards the transfer case end? I have not been able to remove the shaft yet. The 2 pipe weldments telescope together and the big spring moves away but the heavy frame metal guard that covers the pipe weldments are preventing me from getting the angle needed to fully drop the shaft assy and weldments off and out. hmmmmm Plus I have only found 11 of the 12 steel balls so far. Does the Heavy frame piece that surrounds the shaft have to come off too before I can remove the shaft and weldments?Suggestions? ....

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greg_g
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2011-07-25          179546


Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpro_newb | view 179542
Does the Heavy frame piece that surrounds the shaft have to come off too before I can remove the shaft and weldments?
That's what I meant by "lower the driveshaft guard". Perhaps I should have said "remove" rather than "lower".

And I got a little sloppy with my typing, it should have read "loosen clamps 15 to slide back rubber cover 14". Glad you decided to forge ahead despite my misdirection, I was in a dentist chair all afternoon getting a molar pulled.

//greg// ....

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farmpro_newb
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2011-07-25          179547


Gotcha Thanks, Looks like a project for tomorrow. Hope I find that last ball but then there's that broken circlip so looks like there's gonna be parts ordered either way huh. Sure am glad you make it here so often!!
laters,
Jim ....

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greg_g
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2011-07-26          179548


The parts you mentioned are generic by the way; 24mm circlip (2) and 8mm steel ball (12). You should be able to get them at the parts counter of any tractor dealer. All CUTs sold under American tractor names nowadays are made somewhere in Asia anyway (Japan/Korea/India). So any brand name tractor dealer should have a reasonable supply of metric stuff.

//greg// ....

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farmpro_newb
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2011-07-26          179550


Sweet, That's awesome info there Greg. I will look into that. The shaft is now out, but upon inspection of it one end of the shaft (which holds the 8mm steel balls has two places on it with rounded indents where likely a ball or 2 wore through. I am questioning whether reusing this shaft is wise, one would think that with any amount of torque, failure could once again occur. Then again there are 4 balls that would be holding properly. I think a new shaft would be best but am far from rich. Got an opinion regarding this issue? Thanks man.
Jim ....

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richwaugh
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2011-07-26          179551


The balls can be replaced with short sections of 8mm round rod, too. Doing so distributes the load over a much larger area than the tangent of a ball, reducing wear and quite likely allowing you to use that slightly damaged shaft. If you decide to use the little cylinders they can be cut off a grade 10.9 or grade 12.9 8mm metric bolt shaft. Don't make them much more than 8-9 mm long - it will make assembly more difficult, interfere with designed shaft play and is overkill on contact area. Be sure to slightly chamfer the ends so there is no galling when they shift longitudinally. ....

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greg_g
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2011-07-26          179552


Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpro_newb | view 179550
I think a new shaft would be best but am far from rich. Got an opinion regarding this issue?
Concur, the new shaft will be worth it in the long run. Especially since you've already learned where some of the weak points are in the 200 Series front drive system. I'm sure you'll use that knowledge to make any repairs you perform - last much longer next time.

//greg// ....

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farmpro_newb
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2011-07-28          179577


Alright ya'll.... I got all needed parts and got everything back together. Took me a while, was a tricky job!! Tried it out after but I cannot get the front wheels NOT to free wheel no matter what position I put the shifting levers. (4/2 WD) and in gear. Feels like the 4WD engages but the front tires still free wheel. So I slipped the FWD shaft weldments off and all still looks connected. Oh and while everything was apart I had it in gear and the 4WD engaged and I could not turn the main shaft that drives the Front WD, if that helps..... Kinda still lost here!! Trying to figure out what gives with all this? Any other ideas anyone? Thanks!! ....

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greg_g
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2011-07-28          179578


As previously stated, the front diff is permanently connected to the front driveshaft. It's the rear end of that driveshaft that gets engaged by the 2wd/4wd lever. That means that with the lever in 2wd - when you free wheel the front tires - the front driveshaft should be turning too. Start there. And try it from each side separately. If one rotating one tire doesn't turn the other in the opposite direction AND turn the driveshaft, you clearly have another problem. But one step at a time.

//greg// ....

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farmpro_newb
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2011-07-28          179580


OK!! I took her out in the fields in 4WD and started pulling a tree to my brush pile. While traveling through a mushy spot the rear tires started to spin a bit but I noticed the front tire spin and grab as well. Seems to me it works after all. I guess I just didn't test it correctly or something with the front tires raised. I gotta believe from what I saw the 4WD is fixed. Right? I have a couple more issues but will post it on a new thread. THANKS ALL!!! ....

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greg_g
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2011-07-28          179587


Unlike the previous test with the lever in 2wd, this time put it in 4wd. Jack up the front end so both tires are off the ground. Engage the 4wd lever, rotating one tire slightly if necessary to achieve positive engagement. Put the tranny in gear, any gear. Now neither front wheel should rotate. They'll move an inch or so, but that's just play in the drivetrain. There should be no freewheeling of either side. Assuming all goes as described, your 4wd is engaged and working.

//greg// ....

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aikway
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2019-08-21          198711


I am curious how you resolved your problem? Did you get the tractor to work in 4WD? I have the same issue with my Agracat. Thank you!! ....

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