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Smittybuilt winches

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kleinchris
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 269 Westminster, Texas
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2008-01-15          150223


Anybody have any knowledge about this brand? Or, this particular winch?


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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-15          150226


Kleinchris,

This Smittybuilt winch uses a permanent magnet type motor. In all of the articles I've read on winches, they frown on these things. Series wound motors are much better.

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The new Smittybilt XRC-8 Winch encompasses all the best features you would want in a winch. Every XRC-8 (8000 lb) winch features a 4.1HP ---- Permanent Magnetic ------- Motor and a Planetary Gear System with 265:1 gear ratio that will deliver you power and reliability without hitting your pocket book.

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Please look into the differences between permanent magnet and series wound motors. I believe you'll find that the permanent magnet types have a very poor reputation.

Joel ....

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kleinchris
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 269 Westminster, Texas
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2008-01-15          150232


I will check into that- I was sure that this was an issue of you get what you pay for. Northern has a Warn or Ramsey (+8000#'s) for a couple hundred more. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-01-15          150233


SmittyBuilt has been around for as long as I can remember--but building offroad stuff. This winch is likely a Chinese-built one. And Joel is right about PM motors. The cheaper they are the quicker they lose their magnetism, and even quicker when the heat up--and they will. I have had many a winch; Warn being my mainstay. Keep in mind under full load an 8000 Warn can draw as much as 480 AMP if memory serves. At no load that still is 80-100 AMP.

If this is for a tractor (or even a truck) consider going hydraulic. On a small truck they connect to the power steering pump. They typically have less pulling power pound for pound so you may have to get a 9000 to equal an 8000 electric. For a tractor, you can hook it up to your loader or rear remotes. As far as price they can be a bit more than a hydraulic----buuut if you go a junk yard that has a roll-back truck or a wrecker or an off-highway utilty service truck thay can have some really inexpensive winches.

Another option is Harbor Freight, and you probably get a 2-year warranty cheap too before you destroy it. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-15          150235


Kleinchris,

Up to about 3000 lbs pulling power, a permanent magnet type motor is fine. Above that, a series wound motor is much preferred.

The difference between the two types is very difficult to explain here, but I'll try.

In a permanent magnet motor, the field is constant. This means that the power doesn't change with the demand placed on it.

A series wound motor has a field that varies depending on amperage draw. The harder you work the motor.....the higher the current demand.......the stronger the field becomes.

There is a drawback to series wound motors. When under a no-load condition (free wheeling), the series wound motor tends to over rev. A permanent type motor won't do this.

Joel ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-01-16          150246


Joel, I'm confuthesed on your statement that a serieswound motor over-revs. How is that possible? I mean, if you only have so much power going in...

Are you thinking like a car starter sounds after it disengages? If so (and that's the only thing my lil' brain could think of that you might be referring to), it's not over-reving, just coming off being under load.Another exmaple is a power drill that speeds up after drilling through something--no load. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7141 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-01-16          150254


What Joel is talking about is a runaway motor and it requires that there be NO load on a series wound motor at all, and yes, the speed will continue to rise until the motor grenades itself.

However in something like a winch, there is always a mechanical design that won't allow for the motor to run in a "no load" situation, usually they have the motor directly coupled to a gear reduction unit, then use a sliding gear to obtain a F-N-R for the spool, but the gear reduction is always turning and is more than enough load to hold the motor back.

Best of luck.

....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2008-01-16          150257


Where are series wound motors used? I know there is a design that runs as the same rpms regards of whether loaded or not (at least up the ability of the motor to handle the load). They are used in both DC such as fan motors and AC again such as fan motors or even tool motors such as saws. kt ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-16          150258


Earthwrks,

I tried to find something on the internet that would help answer your questions. One of my favorite internet sites is gizmology.net

Murf is correct, in that the gear box installed on the end of the motor's shaft will provide just enough resistance to prevent a series wound motor from destroying itself.

The link below will take you through the advantages and disadvantages of the various DC motors. While series wound motors are more powerful, hybrid motors have been developed to overcome their shortcomings.

This link will provide the answers to at least a few of your questions.

When you're done reading the info on the DC motors, please check out the other interesting things found at Gizmology.net It's a neat place.

Joel ....


Link:   Notes on Motors -- Gizmology.net

 
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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-01-16          150259


A runaway electric motor? errr?

Murf, the Warn planetary-reduction winches don't have F-N-R; direction is controlled through a floating (case) ground via solenoids. However, when freewheeling the planetary drive does have a gear that does disengage from the spool.

The runaway motor still seems like it would violate some basic law of fizzicks. But what do I know---I defer to Kenny. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7141 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-01-16          150264


A permanent magnet motor is the type that has a relatively constant speed regardless of load or not (within reason of course).

As a bit of trivia, series would motors are also able to run on AC as well as DC, but will not reverse direction if you swap hot & neutral since the shift in the field will neutralize the change in polarity and it will still turn the same direction.

EW, the runaway motor will always run afoul of Murphy's Law long before it violates any laws of fizziks (BTW, there's no 'c' in fizziks ;) ) since the bearings will fail or the field coils will pop out and jam between the armature & case before it gets too much above design speed.

I bet if you open up one of those Warn planetaries you will find that the motor is always turning the reduction.

Best of luck. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2008-01-17          150277


I have attached a link that explains electric motors. Did find in it the famous Murf is correct on dangerous speeds he mentioned. My hero (move over EW)! :) kt ....


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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-01-19          150440


Kenny--whew! Good to know that I gotta "move over" 'cause I was just going to send you a thumb for your excavator---but NOW I don't need to---BUDDY! ;P ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-19          150442


Kenny,

I always believe it best for a fella to discover the truth for himself......and preferably NOT the hard way.

Too bad it cost you a thumb for your excavator, though. hehehe.

Joel ....

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