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my hydraulics quit working

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straycat
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5 seattle wa
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2008-01-04          149859


the tractor is a ym240d...it has a loader and box blade on the rear.. the loader started working slower and slower as the power begain to fade it began to jerk and shake as i tryed lifting the bucket, the bucket and soon stoped working all toather.. it had power pushing down but i soon could not rais the bucket at all.. the rear box blade soon lost all power as well.. .. a friend of mine tightend the stop valve located under the seat and held the controls in the down position for aout minuts with the motor running in a effort to self bleed the hydralics...
i belive that was a big mistake!!
the tractor has lost all hydralic power.. i disconected one of the fittings from the ram and tryed to blead it but it had no presure or fluid........
could this be a air leak or air lock??
because the stop valve was tightend with the motor runing did this blow a O-ring or possibly damage the hydraulic pump??
PLEASE HELP

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2008-01-04          149862


Sounds like your pump was exhibiting death throes, and that your friend's unusual "bleeding" technique may have delivered the coup de grāce

//greg// ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-01-04          149863


Straycat; Have you checked the fluid level? Sounds to me like you just plain ran it dry. If the loader bucket was jerking while you tried to raise it that tells me the pump is still functioning but just sucking air. I'm afraid your friends bleeding technique with the engine runnuing may have cost you a pump. Put some fluid in it and give it a try. Greg; I don't want to appear too ignorant, bbut what is a Coup De Grace? Frank. ....

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my hydraulics quit working

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-01-04          149864


Sounds like it ran out of fluid. And like Greg said, the pump is likely shot due to running dry. You may be able to get a pump rebuild kit which is fairly easy to do yourself. ....

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my hydraulics quit working

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7155 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-01-04          149867


Sounds to me also like the pump ran dry.

If that was indeed what happened then I also have to agree, the unusual 'bleeding technique' would almost certainly have done some damage to the pump, if not finished it off.

As was mentioned, fill it up and give it a go, you have nothing left to lose now.

Frank, a 'coup de grace' (French for 'mercy shot' and pronounced phonetically as "koo de graw") is the finishing off of a wounded animal (traditionally with a single close range shot) rather than letting it suffer as it expires slowly. BTW, ignorant would be NOT asking the question. ;)

Best of luck.

....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5223 South Carolina
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2008-01-04          149871


Hawrdwood, that is what you are setting EW up for! :) kt ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-01-04          149879


Kthompson; It really wouldn't be quite as much fun around here without having EW around to poke at now and then. He'd be safe anyway, even if I winged him he still could out run me. Frank. ....

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my hydraulics quit working

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7155 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-01-04          149880


As the old saying goes "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill every time.". ;) ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-01-04          149881


Kenny were you drinking 'shine while you were typing? (hiccup)

And I have to give Frank credit about me out-running him 'cause he knows he's a little older than my dad! tehehe ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5223 South Carolina
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2008-01-04          149884


Not shine, strong coffee.

Note we all (even you) agree it will be you doing the running from....:) kt ....

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straycat
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5 seattle wa
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2008-01-04          149885


i checked the fluid level and it is ok .. i dont have any test equipment to test te pump..
is it possible to check the pump to see if it is working?? ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-01-05          149897


Straycat; Looks like we missed it on this one. Fluid level is full, OK, is there a filter or screen that could be iced over in the cold weather or clogged from something? It doesn't take much water in the fluid to ice a metal screen and completely block the flow, (been there, done that). Frank. ....

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straycat
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5 seattle wa
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2008-01-06          149937


thank you hardwood:: i belive ice could have caused my problems.. it was a vary cold morning and i receved a load of dirt that i had to spreed out before the next load arrived. the ground was froze and it took a wile to get the tractor started.. the loader and boxblade worked slow.. i knew there was air in the lines and the fluid was milky . ..it worked for a few minuts then started jerking and slowly lost all hydralic power.. .. i will try it again after properly warming it up on a nice day.. ..
do you know off hand if the presure being forced thrue the filter causes the fluid to ice up or is it just the cold weather that causes this problems??....
once i start the tractor and *warm it up* is there a simple field test that can be performed to see if the pump is operating??? ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-01-06          149938


Straycat; Milky fluid is pretty sure sign of water in the fluid. Do you have a building that is heated to get the tractor in for long enough to warm the fluid up, a couple days at least? After it has warmed up start it up for a bit, if it works more normal, then drain the old fluid, clean the screens and replace any filters with the proper filters and fluid called for in your owners manual. It depends on where in the system the screen or filters are locaterd, normaly there is a metal screen at the end of the pickup tube, then the paper filter, (spin on, usually), somewheree on the pressure side of the pump, check your owners manual for this. A tractor that has sat in below freezing weather long enough for the fluid to be lower than 32 degrees will ice over a metal screen when it has water in it. If this does indeed solve your problem you should change the fluid again soon as warm weather comes, reason being that your loader cylinders, hoses, power steering lines, etc, all have some fluid that never gets changed the first time and contaminate the new fluid soon as you use the tractor. Good luck. Frank. ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2008-01-06          149940


To answer your 1st question, pressure causes heat - not cold. But ice causing hydraulic problems? I can only feature that happening to a grossly neglected (or vandalized) tractor, where enough water has been permitted to accumulate in the hydraulic sump to freeze down at the pickup screen (when "wet" hydraulic fluid eventually separates, the water goes to the bottom). I used the word grossly, because - depending upon siphon location - it would take INCHES of ice/slush in the bottom of a sump to reach the pickup screen. But even though I've never seen it happen, that can in fact starve a pump - which in turn would exhibit the symptoms you describe.

If true, turning off the flow control valve makes even less sense now.

To answer your 2nd question, no. Short of having a pressure gauge installed, you'd have to open some lines to verify flow. And even if there was flow, it would be hard to estimate what pressure might be available.

If your hydraulics do in fact start working again after a few days above freezing, you need to get that contaminated fluid outa there ASAP. But the YM240 has a common sump, which means a common fluid is shared by the hydraulics, the rear differential, and the transmission. So you have to considser that they're operating on the contaminated fluid as well. Flush the entire system with kerosene. That will help get the milky stuff out that's left behind clinging to the edges. To get the pumps and lines, that means operating the TPH and FEL on kero briefly. Watch what comes out when you flush, repeating as necessary till clean kero comes out. Then refill with new UTF.

//greg// ....

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my hydraulics quit working

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-01-06          149941


Greg; Sorry to diagree but I'm not talking about free water in the bottom of the sump, but the water IN the fluid. I don't know the specs of all hydraulic fluids, but IH HyTran for example has an additive in it that allows the fluid to absorb up to 3 percent, (I think) of water by volume. After the max of absorbtion has been reached then there is free water in the bottom of a sump. It is this water in the fluid that freezes the intake screen. This factor alone of allowing the fluid to get above it's absorbtion max of water took out more old style Torque Amplifiers in Farmall tractors tha all the use they ever got. Frank. ....

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straycat
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5 seattle wa
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2008-02-11          151260


well the weatheris warmer so i went out and started the tractor the loader had a long hesitation before it began to lift .. i lifted it slowly to as high as it would go .. and bumped the hydralic lever a few times and repeated this a few times in hopes it would self bleed . it seemed to work.. but then it slowly begain to fade more and more... now i am right back to whare it was... it is no longer responding.. i can no longer lift the bucket . .. it seems like the more i use the hydraulics the worse it becomes... PS. it no longer jerks but it still acts as if it has very little presure or maybe air in the system . .. still looking for any tips or tricks to truble shoot my hydralics ...
PLEASE HELP
Stray-cat ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2008-02-11          151265


Air in the circuit would cause jerking. I still think either the pump is shot, or you've got something clogging up the suction strainer. Any way you can get a gauge on one of the pressure lines? I used to have a 240, but I don't remember any more where the suction strainer was located.

//greg// ....

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wmgeorge
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 38 Central Iowa
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2008-02-15          151394


Quote:
Originally Posted by straycat | view 151260
well the weatheris warmer so i went out and started the tractor the loader had a long hesitation before it began to lift .. i lifted it slowly to as high as it would go .. and bumped the hydralic lever a few times and repeated this a few times in hopes it would self bleed .it seemed to work.. but then it slowly begain to fade more and more... now i am right back to whare it was... it is no longer responding.. i can no longer lift the bucket . .. it seems like the more i use the hydraulics the worse it becomes... PS. it no longer jerks but it still acts as if it has very little presure or maybe air in the system . .. still looking for any tips or tricks to truble shoot my hydralics ...PLEASE HELPStray-cat


Have you at least changed the filter or cleaned the strainer? I know its cold, but I'd do the simple stuff first. Then if it works I would replace the fluid as soon as you can - warmer weather is coming? The system should self bleed and I don't understand how it would get air, unless you have taken a hose off or done some repairs. BG in Iowa ....

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petegoud
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 8 Chehalis, WA
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2008-02-25          151646


Could it be possible that the relief valve may not be working? I had some debris in mine holding it open allowing the pump to only build pressure of a couple hundred pounds. It should be set at about 2000 psi. ....

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newholland10
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 27 virginia
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2008-02-25          151650


check your suction filter/fluid/and all quick conects/if you have opencenter hyds.system should bleed it self.might have blow packing in lift cylinder/control lever might need adjusting.could be a couple of other things.let me do some checking.hope you did not blow your pump.might have trash in circut relief valve. ....

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straycat
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5 seattle wa
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2008-02-27          151717


thanks for responding:: i have cleand my tansmision filter and canged my transmissin hydraulic fluid but it still holds a good amount of water .. changed it 3 times and still milky but should work.. i only looked at the hose conections and they dont seem to be leaking, HOWEVER i did see what looked like small water/oil bubles coming out of one of the large rams wile the bucket was held at its highest point. i saw this when i was bumping the lift controler in a attempt to bleed the system.. it looks like the rams may have a small bleed hole or maybe a hole has rusted through..the ram has a grove/ring cut into the ram with a notch/flat spot.it looks to me like the ram is joined and threded or snap ringed together at this point.. i cleaned and scraped the rust/dirt to see if it is a factory blead hole or maybe a crack but really could not tell.
i don`t know for sure if it has a opencenter hydralic system with self bleeding or not. it is a yanmar 240d the transission and hydrolics run off the same fluid. the Yanmar 240 has the same system as the JD-650 AND JD-750 and uses JD-303 Fluid.. you also said somthing about blow packing in the lift cylinder or control lever needing adjustment. how do i adjust this?? and what is blow packing??
please explain... i hate to ask so many dumb questions but how do i check and clean the circut relief valve and whare is it?? .... as if you coldnt tell i know very little about tractors and hydralics so please be patient .. . .

ohhh BTW i bought a (EXTRA) high pressure cap. i bought this cap just for ermergencys, in case i blow a hydralic line i can cap it off and limp my tractor back to the house.. can i use this cap to truble shoot my hydralics by narrowing down the problem and bypassing a few of the hoses one at a time ... ....

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newholland10
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 27 virginia
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2008-02-29          151773


by packing.i mean the seals on the end of the rod witch is inside the barrel/cylinder.it a seal kit.all cylinders have them.water in the hydraulic.not that big a problem.does your loader even try to work???if so you may have trash in your circut relief valve.any way be very carful.with hydraulics.if you start cracking lines to check for flow.you can make your own pressure tester/plugs into your quick connects/use a 10,000 psi guage.be carful dont dead head your hyd pump.get out your book and look for your test ports on your machine. ....

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