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Forums > Active Threads > General Tractor Discussions > Parts and Repair

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anocomp0219
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10 NH
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2007-09-09          145550


I just bought a Komatsu excavator small and it has a yanmar ed84-1fa engine. It will not start even with me spraying ether. any ideas?

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2007-09-09          145555


anocomp0219,

Since this machine is used, and you are unfamiliar with its history, I would highly suggest that you start from the beginning.

Let's assume that this machine hasn't been started for years.

1.Completely drain the old fuel and replace with a fresh couple of gallons. (Do not completely fill the tank, as you may have to drain it all out later.)

2. Check the fuel tank for rust and other debris.

3. Replace the fuel filter.

4. Disconnect and blow out the fuel line.

5. Check the injector pump to make sure that it's primed and is pumping fuel.

6. If your machine has glow plugs, make sure they're working properly.

7. Clean or replace the air filter and check the air intake for debris (mouse nest, for example.)

8. If the machine still doesn't start, even after all of this, I would suggest a compression test on the individual cylinders.....provided, of course, that you know fuel is getting delivered to the cylinders.

More than likely, the fuel in your system is just old and has turned waxy, which has plugged up the fuel filters. The other possibility is that your fuel has bacteria growing in it, which will cause the same problem. The resulting slime will completely plug your fuel filter.

Joel ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2007-09-09          145557


Be sure the fuel cutoff solenoid is working too.

I bought a machine for pennies on a dollar because the former owner wired the ignition swicth to turn OFF the fuel pump while it was trying to start.

Always look for the not-so-obvious when it comes to used stuff. ....

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harvey
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2007-09-09          145559


If it won't fire on ether it is a mechanical problem not fuel. It would not hurt to do all that other stuff also.

Does the valve train work? Remove valve cover watch the valves. Does it seem to have compression? Broken drive gear in the cam shaft/crankshaft timing train?

Even with a plugged intake or exaust enough ether should creep in to allow it to fire.
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anocomp0219
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2007-09-09          145563


Joel,

1-4 is OK

5 is a question. I dont know if it is primed enough. dont know how to do that? any suggestions?

6 N/A

7 OK

8 the guy I bought it off of had a compression test and it came up low.

I know that Im not getting enought fuel.

Thanks for the help. I apprieciate it.

Aaron

....

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anocomp0219
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2007-09-09          145565


Thanks I will check that.

Aaron ....

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anocomp0219
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2007-09-09          145566


Yes the valve is working but unsure if timing is correct.

does have compression dont know if it is enough.

Thanks for the sugestions been helpful. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-09-09          145567


Personally, I wouldn't waste any more time on trying to start it. I almost bought a dozer that did the same thing---PASSSSSSS!

You have basically figured it out: not enough compression to fire even with ether. Sounds like it's worn out and needs at the very least a ring job. Diesels are verrrrry expensive to rebuild ($3500-$5500 in my area) Of course no one can tell me why--as compared to a gas engine. Like Wendy's says "parts is parts"

You could likely buy new rings for about $200.

You might luck out and be able to drop a brand new engine in from a surplus supplier. There was one I dealt with and don't remember the name. If I do I reply back.

What did you pay for the machine? And what year and size is it? ....

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jd110_1963
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2007-09-09          145568


Aaron, does the engine sound any different when you are spraying the ether in? Do you know how low the compression is? I have absolutely seen some of these engines get so low on compression that they won't start even with ether. If that is the case, the only solution is major overhaul. With that said, have you tried loosening any fuel lines at the injectors? You sould see a definite spurt of fuel every stroke if the pump is producing proper fuel pressure. If you are getting lots of white smoke while cranking, I'll bet the fuel system is OK and low compression is the culprit. Good Luck! ....

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anocomp0219
Join Date: Sep 2007
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2007-09-09          145569


Ok,

Does anyone have any suggestions on where I can get a repair manual on

Komatsu dc20-6
with a 3D 84-1FA

dont know the year

Have the shop manual but it really dont tell much.

Aaron ....

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anocomp0219
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2007-09-09          145570


paid $3000.00
and have no clue what year it is.
it is a pc20 ....

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anocomp0219
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2007-09-09          145572


Yes the engine sounds like it is knocking.
dont know how low the compresion is.
Yes there is a low dribble of fuel.

thanks ....

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earthwrks
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2007-09-09          145577


You might want to edit the request for the manual to go from dc20 to PC-20.

Found that it is likely from the mid- to late-1980's based on what I saw on the Net.

They are a popular machine around here.

The ether should have ran that sucker like a raped ape. I still think it's the rings.

Contact www.surpluscenter.com for a replacement engine. ....


Link:   Surplus Center for new engines

 
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earthwrks
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2007-09-09          145578


Here's a source in the UK that can help with engine rebuild. Apparently they get calls from the USA as they have a phone number just for US customers.

Link below. ....


Link:   engine parts

 
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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2007-09-09          145582


anocomp0219,

Ether wouldn't fire up the engine, because there was no heat being produced, due to lack of compression of the diesel fuel. Ether won't work unless the diesel fuel is being compressed.

Since you already know that you have bad compression, along with a knock in the engine, there is no sense trying to get it running.

At a minimum, you'll need new rings and rod bearings. I'm guessing a complete overhaul is in order.

Rather than spend the money on the overhaul, I'd save up for a new engine.

The price will be about the same, but you'll also get a new hydraulic pump with your new engine, along with new fuel injectors, injector pump, glow plugs, etc.

The money you spend on the new engine will be well worth the investment, as there is very little else that can go wrong with one of these machines.

And yes......Surplus Center offers some pretty competitive prices on new engines.

I wish you the best.

Joel ....

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kthompson
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2007-09-10          145593


anocomp0219,

If you don't mind my asking how many hours are on this machine? Thank you, kt ....

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earthwrks
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2007-09-10          145612


Kenny did you buy an excavator yet? ....

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anocomp0219
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2007-09-10          145613


There are 3400 showing. ....

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candoarms
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2007-09-10          145615


anocomp0219,

The hour meter is highly suspect.

The rings in that engine will normally last far longer than 3400 hours, even with minimum maintenance. The only other explanation would be a serious oil leak during operation, in which case the engine was run dry.

These are highly reliable engines. They are used in many different makes and models of equipment, and they have a proven history behind them.

Should you decide to purchase a replacement engine for this machine, you can expect to get at a minimum of 5000 hours of operation out of it........possibly much more.

I question the maintenance history of this machine. It seems quite likely that it was either abused during use, or suffered from a severe lack of routine maintenance........possibly both.

Joel

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kthompson
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2007-09-11          145622


EW, no have not bought one yet. That was why my question on hours. Was looking at a Komatsu with about same hours. Different model machine.

How many hours will an hour meter show before it starts over? It is also possible the hour meter was replaced or disconnected either on purpose or by accident also for a good while.

I am not a mechanic by any means but have you checked the air intake system to be sure it is not blocked in any manner? ....

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mobilus
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2007-09-14          145709


Good call, kthompson! I had a dirt dauber (mud wasp) nest built in a tube to the air box on a four-wheeler once, and I'd torn the thing down way past what I needed by the time I found the problem. Felt really dumb. Simplest causes first... ....

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earthwrks
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2007-09-14          145748


A bit off-topic but along the line of mud daubers, I put a new cab on my dump truck and severed some brake line. I replaced some of them in the Spring but didn't back to working on it that Fall. All the new lines weren't reconnected and were left open (doh!). Yep, daubers filled them up but I didn't know that until a truck-and-bus repair shop finsihing the brake system for me called and siad ALL the new lines I put on it had to be removed and replaced with all new. SO $2000 later... ....

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kthompson
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2007-09-18          145842


No doubt dirt daubers could seal a crack in any dam. Had leaf blower they liked the air intake holes in the plastic cover. Many people miss no air, no run. Years ago saw a Detroit Diesel fired up with stuck throttle body and it went wild in a hurry. The breather had not been install and a piece of card board over the intake save the engine. At same time the air intake does not have to be fully restricted to keep an engine from full power or any power for that matter or to cause it to over heat. kt

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2011-02-13          176854


Spam deleted by moderator. ....

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