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Not a good first impression on quality control

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redrum
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21 Western New York
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2006-08-30          133836


Hi;

After much research of the compact tractors, and review of which dealer I feel the I will get the best support from, I bought a NH TZ25, FEL, MMM, and FM Snowblower.

Well it took a while for deliver because turf tires were on back order...

Anyhow, when I took delivery, I was concentrating more on operation, maintenance, etc, especially removal and attaching of attachments that I have never seen, like the snow blower.

Ok, here's the point. Later that night I realized that the finsh felt rough. I tried wax to no avail. I inspected closely and saw blue paint overspray on the entire tractor top surface, including the clear lenses, fenders, etc.

I plan on scratching and bangign the tractor up over the years, but I prefer to do it myself. I expect the finish to be fine on delivery.

My dealer agreed, but in their dealings, NH would not replace the tractor (with 1 hour on it), but would only replace every piece on the top of the tractor (yes, can you believe?. The issue is that they cannot sell the tractor that the parked next to the spray booth as "new" once it was "sold".

My dealer will do a good job replacing the parts. Even though I am ok with it, I just feel that it is wrong. They should load it back up and bring me a new one. I would not have liked an auto to come like that.

Anyhow, I have "owned" it for over a month, got it last week, and am waiting for my parts so that they can rip it apart and put it back together.

Look your tractors over very closely on delivery. If I had, I would have refised delivery...

Sorry so long...

RR

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redrum
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21 Western New York
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2006-08-30          133837


wow, sorry for the typos! it's late and I must be tired. You get the point though I hope!

RR ....

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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
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2006-08-31          133838


Redrum

You can go to you post and then CLICK EDIT under your name and correct whatever you want to.
Also DO NOT apologize for LONG POSTS, if people don't want to read the whole thing, they don't have to. Post what is on your mind.
You did a good thing with NH, QC will slip to New Lower levels if no one complains and raises Hell. You made sure that NH took their job as seriousily as you did when you earned the money to buy it. If you expect Quality, DEMAND it
Good job ....

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DenisS
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 367 NJ
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2006-08-31          133872


if you expect quality, buy orange ....

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SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006
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2006-08-31          133873


that is why you did the research on the dealer, he is going to work with you.

DenisS
Read the post about buying filters for orange I call that quality at an overprice. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-08-31          133874


Call me jaded. I have my doubts the rough overspray happened at the factory. It is also likely that NH has told the dealer they're not covering it---but the dealer to make himeslf be the HERO in your eyes and not the ZERO that they are, has decided to quell you and take care of it themselves like they should, and not charge-back NH under warranty---regardless of what they have led you to believe (NH would reject it in a heartbeat anyway)

Don't be surprised if they use some naptha, lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or other solvent and try to wipe off the overspray, instead of replacing the parts. All they'll leave swirl marks in the process since they won't know what they're doing.

This type of paint has to be buffed and polished. And they wouldn't be painting them right next to the assembly area close enough to get over spray on them. Most likely the dealer is a fault---they were probably touching up another machine or part(s) while yours was being prepped----shoot if the techs are as incompetent as the ones I know (present company of "Oneace" excepted... if you are reading this Tony LOL) they probably laid the parts ON your tractor and sprayed them LOL. I've seen my dealer take expensive tractor engine cover panels and lay them FACE DOWN and STACKED next to the machine they're working on on dirty concrete. I saw my dealer remove mine ---drop it in front of me---pick it up and pretend it didn't hit the ground! The owner got an ass chewing by me. I had paint issues on my NH TC33D, but on the seat back. The ass--- service guy---you know the one: the dope head with just one brain cell left--- right in front of me takes a can of paint and sprays the seat back! Didn't even wipe off the dirt, didn't bother to cover anything. Man was I pissed. Get this: I have a 2005 NH skid steer (bobcat) that listed well over $45,000. Less than a year later the edges of nearly all the painted parts are rusting since the paint is peeling off. I hate chasing rust like this crap. ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-08-31          133883


EW is probably right. The first thing that flashed in my mind was that the dealer was painting something near the tractor. I doubt the factory would touch up the tractor like that and the paint line is no where near the assembly area.

You can not remove paint from the plastic light lenses or the bonnet. Any solvent that will remove the acylic paint is going to attack the polycarbonate hood. I would watch the dealer pretty close. ....

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DenisS
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 367 NJ
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2006-09-01          133892


SG, I was just provoking some controversy, that's all

: ) ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2006-09-01          133893


For what you have it was done at the dealer or at a dealership. When they come in they are quite well broken down and there would not be a way to cover as described unassembled. Can a dealer watch all the employee's all the time? No better then our government can! ....

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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2006-09-01          133904


I agree with the guys that suspect the dealer. Typically, the unit's metal pieces show up at eth assembly line already painted. The plastic then goes on after the paint. Many manufacturers run the painted parts through an oven to fast dry the paint. The plastic parts typically don't like the oven. So I'd have to say it was probably done at the dealer.

Also, all the masking and such is expensive and time consuming for a manufacturer. So they like to paint before assembly. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2006-09-02          133913


Going a step futher on possibilities, from time to time the shippers have some damage or might have been done while uncrating and some pieces might need some touch-up. This is done at the shop that is selling the units after assembly. We use several types of cleaners to remove any excess overspray if the units one of them is Collinite color-up pre-wax. There probably are others but this has been a good product for many minor restorations of paint from old discolored paint to just overspray. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2006-09-03          133933


Use some Maguires Extra cut compound and a foam pad not wool and keep misted with water. That way the swirl marks are kept to a minimum and any that you do get will wipe off with a CLEAN rag. OR wait is that keep misted with diesel fuel. OH well I am just the "Dumb ass shop guy".LOL Thanks for excluding me EW. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-09-03          133934


That's ok Tony---I gotch yer back.

Now, put the diesel fuel down---hands up where I can sees 'em------ and step a-w-a-y from the tractor. ....

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redrum
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21 Western New York
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2006-09-27          135504


Hi;

very late visit back to the thread. The dealer does not spray, I have visited their shops many times. Also, the rough overspray covered the entire finished surfaces, but not the seat, rops, mower deck, etc. I guess they could have a partially disassembled tractor in their shop (like, just arrived and started assembly) and started this bonehead move.

As for all of the answers to taking off light overspray, thanks, but with a $15 tractor, I, normally a fixit guy, was not going to lift a finger, and the instrument bezel, lights, etc. all of the clear acrylic surfaces were covered as well.

In the end, they "ordered" all of the parts to replace and delivered my tractor. Gave me a ballast box for the trouble. When I went down to pick up the ballast box, I saw a TZ with it's skins removed, and asked the other salesman if that is where my parts came from. He confirmed.

I guess I thought they were the best dealer, maybe I am wrong, but I had several recomendations, they had the best price of Blue Orange and Red, and the tractors seemed quite similar, so I went for blue over red, orange an ugly third
Now, you don't want me to tell you about the bad bucket tilt cylinder, and the mower deck "fix" that they just found out about, but I thought was common knowledge and should be on a new unit....now have 5 hours because it is never home...

RR ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-09-28          135523


Redrum: I have some swamp land I wanna sell ya. The dealer is obviously at fault here. He probably found out that that the parts were very expensive, and since NH wasn't going to cover their mistake. It's my guess they bought a tractor at either a private sale, auction or worse. Worse could be it was bought at auction and was flooded. I'm working here in Katrina-land and you would not believe how many tractors, construction equipment, cars and trucks, motorcycles, etc. new and old were flooded with sea water (last count was 250,000 cars and trucks). Ask yourself: That TZ without skins--what's going to happen to it? It's either mechancially junk or they can't sell it like it is if it's new.

And that swamp land...dealers not spraying? errrrr? All it takes is a second to get overspray on something, so just because you don't see them do it when you're there doesn't mean it doesn't happen :) Every single time I have ordered NH hard parts ranging from $20 to $700 they have to be repainted because they don't even package them 99% of the time and they get mangled in shipping---that $700, it was for a skid steer engine cover. It came in rusted, scratched, gouged, badly bent and three welds broken. Dealer's reply: NH won't give us a credit for it but we'll give you a discount if you buy it---great so I had to fix it myself because it was the last one (it was a 15 year old machine). You have to keep these guy honest or else they will run roughshod over you. ....

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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2006-09-28          135532


Isn't it amazing how some companies ship parts? Well, I've seen what some companies use for shipping people. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Especially if they are union personnel. What do they care if it arrives damaged? They can't be fired per union rules. ....

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wny770
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 14 NY
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2006-10-01          135609


I LOVE my TZ25...BUT, Mine does have overspray on the right front lens....not a lot, but it is there. I have 40 hours now and LOVE it. How's that FE snowblower, i thought of buying one??? ....

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redrum
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21 Western New York
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2006-10-02          135643


Hi WNY;

I have not had the opportunity to try the FE blower yet, and if WNY stands for what I think it does, we will both find out at the same time (Niagara County)! Like November some time.

I went back and forth between the FE blower and the rear. Really wanted to save the $1K, but in the end, I have been using a FE blower all my life, and was told by others that unless I grew up used to the rear, I would not be happy. I also thought of just the FEL, but realized it would not be a quick job.

Funny that you have some overspray. Mine was light too, but the whole surface was rough. For that $ I would not accept it, although I will do more damage than that at some point. They cost the same as a cheap car, and you woldn't accept it that was.

As to the earlier post of a used tractor for parts, nope, the parts that came back were perfect, and we might get snow, but no 'canes or 'quakes. A friend put it a good way, that it was going to take some time to get the parts, so they grabbed dismantled a new one to get my sitation taken care of. I guess that I will never know the truth...

Later, RR ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-10-02          135645


Redrum, I know in Michigan that if you buy a new car and it is damaged before you get it off the lot, the car can be sold as new without disclosure providing the damage doesn't exceed a certain percentage of the value (30%??) (an example of "damage" is like if the car fell off the car hauler---it happens a lot). So I wonder if the tractor that donated your parts could legally and technically be sold as new, and if they would have to disclose that they did substitute parts that did not come on it.

But I'm jis' sayin' ....

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wny770
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 14 NY
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2006-10-03          135673


Yes redrum, WNY....Southern tip of erie county....snow belt! Hopefully, it won't snow much??? ....

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SURRYEQUIP
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7 virginia
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2006-10-31          136445


the dealer or some dealer did it- it may have been transferred- sheet metal is hard to get obviously it is not a high replacement maintenance item- No manufacturer replaces tractors for this simple a problem ....

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redrum
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2006-10-31          136450


First, it's not sheet metal, and with regards to "simple", if this was a car that you are picking up (and they cost as much as a small car) would you accept a finish like that?

RR ....

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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
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2006-11-01          136473


EARTH

Usually it is still NEW unless the Title has been released and then regardless if the Unit has moved an inch, it becomes USED.How it works with Tractors, I can only guess.
If the dealer recieves and SIGNS for a damaged vehicle from the Factory, he is a fool. We deny shipment and it is sent back to the factory where the damaged is repaired to as Good as Original condition and it is then sold thru a Manufacturer Auction. They are sold as USED, because the title was released to the Dealer and then re released back to the Manufacturer and then re released back to another Dealer. USED has nothing to do with miles but rather if the title has been released before. We have bought many vehicles that were damaged in shipments and then repaired and we sell them with about 20 miles on them as USED and for many thousand less than MSRP. ....

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Not a good first impression on quality control

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-11-01          136479


Wing: I'm talking about minor imperfections (I forget the actual issue) such as orange-peel paint or some minor scratch that affected several cars that weren't due to shipping but were a result of shoddy paintshop workmanship (gasp!) WHAT? American cars had shoddy workmanship LOL.

Anecdote: I had a boss who worked on the assembly line building Chyrsler New Yorkers back in the late 70's. His job was to check the fit for flushness on the front fenders where they met the front panel. They called it a "two-quarters" tolerance. If fender flushness was at or less than two stacked quarters, it was within tolerance. ....

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redrum
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21 Western New York
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2006-11-01          136490


Hi;

The original issue has been taken care of by them swapping all of the exposed "blue" parts, bezel, etc from another tractor. Case closed

The original imperfection was terrible overspray over the entire tractor, which I discovered as they drove away. The finish on everything, hood, bezel, headlight lenses, fenders, etc felt like sandpaper. On the clear bezel and headlights, you could see blue splotches on inspection.

I tried for a new machine as it has <1 Hour on it, but didn't push that hard and accepted the swap.

My original point is that NH/Dealer has not impressed me with their quality control. This is even made worse since I have had to go through the whole mower deck level, lift funny fiasco. Oh, and then the lift bucket cylinder needed replacing. 5 hours on it in 3 months, and now it's snowblower time...

My last response was that I pushed for a new machine because when you sign up for $15K, and see the crap that I saw, you quickly want to start over. Like a new car, you would look at the finish and say "no way"

Thanks everyone, great forum!

RR

....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2006-11-02          136545


Redrum
Bottom line here, (and there is NO OTHER LINE!) Your dealer is crap! IF (and thats a big if) If came from NH that way, your top notch DEALER should of caught that when they were washing or waxing it. Especially if it is as bad as you portray. If it is that bad, then your dealer did absolutely nothing after they recieved it. My god, they delivered this hacked up tractor to you? They inspected it, and yes, they more than likely tried to fix a polishing screw up on their part.
This is a case closed conversation. Your dealer, not NH is responsible for delivering you a tractor that has no obvious blemishes. Look at your recieveing ticket they should of given you, the one where they checked all the little boxes for inspecting it before delivery? You did get one of those didnt you?
Im smelling a JD owner here and or just a NH basher. Sorry but its my opinion after hearing the sob story.
Iowafun
BITE ME, I will more than likely out work your sorry ass everyday of the week, take your union comments and shove em office boy! ....

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brokenarrow
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2006-11-02          136546


BTW, the Dublin GA plant is non union if that is where the tz are from, dont know but would bet they are not put together by Union brothers and sisters and surely they are not shipped by union truckers! Must be some other excuse.
atleast I dont see em in home depot yet
LMAO ....

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agriman
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2006-11-03          136571


The TZ units are completely assembled in Japan where they are tested before being partly disassembled for shipment to the staging area located in Dublin, GA where they are stored until delivery to the dealer.

The dealer is responsible for reassembling the tractor and checking for any defects (shipping or other). Once the unit has been sold the dealer should performing Pre-Delivery Inspections (PDI) before delivering the unit to the customer.

Regardless of where the over spray came from the dealer should have found and properly fixed the issue before delivery however, like someone else pointed out a dealership is only as good as it’s employee’s.

....

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brokenarrow
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2006-12-04          137575


Every now and then we get an order for some tractors to go over sea's. This place that I am talking about needs to assemble 40%(I think its 40 maybe its 60% though) in order for us to sell there. Kinda funny seeing our 240hp tractors heading out the door with no cab,tires etc. ....

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