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Cylinder seal replacement

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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2006-07-05          131730


After getting my Kubota L3130 back from my brother in law I noticed some hydraulic fluid leaking out of the front seal on the bucket roll cylinder. He mentioned that he pulled some trees with a chain and showed my where the paint was worn off the top of the bucket from the chain hook.

I think he must have been hooking them up, backing up and giving the chain a good snap as it tightened. I'm assuming that this could put undue pressure on the seal.

First of all, is this most likely what blew the seal on the cylinder? Second, do I want to fix it myself or should I leave it to a pro? The older I get the less I want to do my own repairs. :) I suppose the cost would be primarily labor.

No, if he did this I'm not going to say anything to him. Over the years I've been helped out many times by him and wouldn't have the heart.
Dave

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Cylinder seal replacement

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2006-07-05          131736


Having been in the situation of repacking cylinders many times. Let some one else do it. Now that I am not working for a dealership I send ALL my cylinder work out. Even my own personal cylinders. I hate them all. ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-07-05          131739


Short: I kinda doubt that, based on what you said about jerking it, really damaged it. Most likely it was ready to go before it was lent out. All it takes as piece or dirt or debris to get between the wiper and the rod and BINGO! (I screwed up and painted my cylinders on my backhoe and used masking tape to mask off the rods. Forgot to remove the tape and the tape got stuck in the seals. Before I realized what happened it was too late)

I used to be afraid of rebuilding my own cylinders until I took one apart and abot fell over when I realized how simple AND cheap it was to do it myself. Buy a cylinder seal rebuild kit from the dealer to be sure you have the latestand greatest parts. DOn't remove any seals until you lay them out in sequence according to the old ones already installed. It will take you longer to go get the parts than it will to replace one side. While doing it, think about all that money you'll save! ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6885 Waterville New York
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2006-07-05          131743


You should also be sure to have a low profile pan to catch the oil that might be left in the cylinder as well as be ready yourself with proper clothing as you are working in oil's home so have some lint free rags handy. The proper tools for disassembly will reduce the chance of failure in removal of the end caps. ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5223 South Carolina
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2006-07-06          131754


Short,

Since this brother in law is a good one, give it a little while (so he will not think you think he caused it) and invite him over to help. Just in case you think he may have caused it, give him the oily end. LOL ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2006-07-06          131759


Thanks for the responses. I'm glad you think it was caused by something other than my BIL. He's not the type to abuse anything. I'll take a look at it to see if I want to try it but most likely I'll take if off the loader and give it to someone else.
David ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6885 Waterville New York
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2006-07-06          131798


Dave, I didn't say he might not have caused it! Sorry, but things happen and if this is the worst then all is well. I didn't get to see where the chain was attached. It could be a freak we really don't know but a ten minute removal and a trip to the dealer could be an clean and easy out. Lack of knowledge of the proper operation of a piece of equipment is the most common cause for uncommon or unscheduled repairs. ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2006-07-07          131809


Now that I've gotten a few responses, I don't think he did it either. The seal is just dripping a bit, not spraying like a completely blown seal. It's something I'll have to fix this summer. We've got a heavy equipment repair business just a mile down the road and they should be able to fix it pretty quickly if I remove it.
Dave ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2006-07-07          131814


I've replaced seal in cylinders sevweral times in the past. It's really not that difficult on easy to handle size like on a CUT loader, the bigger long stroke ones like on big backhoes are just plain heavy and clumbsy to handle, those are best left to the pro's. Count on it being kinda of a mess, you never seem to get quite all the fluid out no matter how you drain them prior to repair. Frank. ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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RRagent
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 56 North carolina
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2006-07-07          131824


Dave, if you do it yourself, Use brass rods to pull out the
old seals and maybe help in installing the new ones. I worked on Hyd' in Air Force and it kept us from scarring
the rods. We used brass welding rods and made hooks and spoons with them. ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2006-07-08          131869


I just replaced a broken 12" long cylinder rod ($230) in an industrial grapple bucket for my my skid steer yesterday (bucket's for sale--$5K new--I'll take $2K). While I was in there I replaced the seals. That took about 5 minutes and cost $24 for one seal kit.

The rod is different story. They sold me one that was 1/2" too short and had a smaler clevis hole in it. Luckily I didn't put it all back together. They're air-freighting a new one Monday. ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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charlieK
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 109 kentucky
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2009-04-30          162405


both cylinders on bucket curl for my 723 loader have been leaking for some time and the left cyl. was leaking a bit too much so decided to fix it. FYI a seal kit for the kubota loader is over $154 plus tax per cyl. yeah I know this is an old thread but I didn't want to start a new one. when I get over the initial shock of the cost for the seal kit for one cyl., I will get the other cyl. fixed after my wife's stimulus ck. arrives. lol ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7155 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-04-30          162410


Charlie, we've run into this lots with dealer parts.

In fact in some cases, if the gouging wasn't so extreme it would be downright funny!!

Case in point, my dealer has one (1) type of hydraulic quick connects in stock, if you look up the male end as a 'jobber' part, it is ~$7/each, if you look it up by the 'bota part number, it is ~$27/each or nearly four times the price.

Seal kits are another one, go to any decent hydraulic shop or industrial supply house, I think you'll find that same kit is about $30 / each.

Best of luck. ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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charlieK
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 109 kentucky
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2009-04-30          162423


thanks Murf--I first took it to a premium hyd. shop miles away and after 3 days I called 'em--they had it torn down completely and hadn't ordered any parts for it yet and just had determined that it was metric-- lol--I went and got it and took it to a kubota dealer here in louisville, ky. They didn't have any parts but I hi-tailed it to another kubota dealer who had the seal kit. I just returned home with the finished cyl. Guess I'll bite the bullet on the other cyl. not too many things have given me any trouble with this L3130 GST in the last 5 yrs. things wear though-- ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7155 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-04-30          162426


Ahh, ok, if you're half handy it's a pretty easy fix yourself.

BTW, IMHO it's not wear, of all the bucket cylinders (and most others too for that matter) I've seen that either leak, or leak down, it's result of overload.

Now please note, 'overload' is very easy to do unintentionally.

For instance, if you put a big load in the bucket and while moving at anything more than a crawl hit a bump, chances are the shock loading will blow some fluid past the seals. Once this happens, the seal is never as strong. Plowing snow with the FEL is another just about guaranteed way to take the seals out.

Best of luck. ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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charlieK
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 109 kentucky
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2009-04-30          162427


thanks for that info--I have worked it hard at times--too scared to tackle a job that I know absolutely nothing about--just an old retired railroader: not a hyd. whiz ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2009-04-30          162429


Murf can you give a little more detail on your assessment of shockloading and seals?

You weren't specific whether it was the gland seals or the piston seals.

My experience is a bit different, maybe because I don't have 'bottys. All the cylinders I've taken apart have a plastic wear ring or band that helps guide or center the piston through the bore. The O-rings or whatever type of sealing ring is used doesn't necessarily wear unless and until the waer ring gives out.

However, gland seals are a different story. I've seen may a cylinder leak at the gland due to having a tiny piece of sand get between the rod wiper and actual seals. Also, masking tape or even the paint itself from the maunfacturing process of touching up yourself can result in the same thing--and in some case can either rip part of the seal out or flip it inside out. Of course there are the obvious things to look for like a bent rod; scored/scratched/dented rod; missing/flaked/chipped/pitted chrome plating or hard coating; or any of the above resulting in rust.

As far as "metric seals" in my experience it's not possible to "measure" an O-ring seal, especially a worn one. My supplier which is huge, strictly-hydraulic house, has a 2' tall plastic cone with gradations on it that give an approximate measurement--just slip the O-ring over the cone and read the corresponding number.

Around here hydraulic shops refuse to sell parts unless they do the work too. Case in point: my backhoe loader cylinder blew a gland seal reatiner clip. Not knowing where to go for parts I went to the local hydraulic shop. after begging and pleading to buy pne, he charged me $28--a deal it seemed at the time since they wanted $300 to R&R the cylinder---until I accidentally found HIS supplier and got it direct for $3. ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7155 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2009-05-01          162454


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthwrks | view 162429
Murf can you give a little more detail on your assessment of shockloading and seals? You weren't specific whether it was the gland seals or the piston seals.


Jeff, it's usually the O ring that gets blown past, the wiper can't hold back any pressure, it's just there to keep debris out. It seems like once the pressure exceeds what the O ring can hold it deforms it or something. I have however seen quite a few that leak past the piston seals too.

It's also not uncommon on the smaller units to screw up the seals in the loader control valve. As you know the relief valve is on the other side of the valve so when the valve is in the static position and a shock load is applied there is no longer any form of shock protection valve in the pressurized area.

Best of luck. ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5223 South Carolina
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2009-05-01          162455


The bucket cylinder on my little excavator had me puzzled as I was finding it was leaking when not using it. Noticed if cylinder was left in certain position was not leaking, but in other was right heavy (to me). Had decided got to get this fixed, had not realized it had screw on cap and it was loose. Boy talk about a simple fix! Hurray :) ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2009-05-01          162460


DUY or send it out? To get the right seals and replace them will take you a whole day. But for another couple of hours you could do the other three cylinders too. ....

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Cylinder seal replacement

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charlieK
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 109 kentucky
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2009-05-11          162656


update on repaired cylinder---pd. kubota dealer $70 for 1 hr. work to put seal kit in cyl. almost 2 wks. later and no leaks--am happy camper execpt for last fri. the wife and I rec'd. our federal tax refund in the mail($1842). WOOPEE!!! I thought I could get the other cyl. done now. WRONG!!!!-- wifie said we needed the money to pay for the new hardwood floor we just put down. still waiting for her stimulus ck. to arrive though. lol ....

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