Go BottomBallast in the wheels
 | rgpbeme
Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 55 Eureka Springs AR 
|
2006-03-23 126575
How does filling a tire with a liquid change the center of gravity? I see where it would add weight and give better traction but if the tire is full it seems it would be the same center of gravity only heavier. If it was half full then it would change the center. Also would the extra weight cause problems with the rear bearings? The axles are not supported at the wheels like a car so moving the extra mass that far from the bearings seem like it might be a strain on the bearings.
I just noticed the slip hub on the axle that the rim mounts to on mine is cracked. I thought the extra weight might have a affect on it
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoBallast in the wheels
 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada 
 Pics
|
2006-03-23 126576
You strung a bunch of questions together here, but I'll take a stab at it.
First of all, ballasting tires definitely does lower the COG (center of gravity) since it shifts more of the overall weight to a lower point than the rest of the tractor.
Secondly, you never completely fill a tire, at most about 75% full, sometimes only as little as 25% full.
I don't think I quite understand the axle support / bearings part. The entire weight of the tire rests on the ground. It does impact however, the amount of force against the bearings, but only in that you are increasing the amount of weight that the lever that is your tractor is trying to lift. In other words, when you lift up on the FEL a certain load is placed on the front bearings & axles, and the rear of the tractor wants to lift up. If you add more weight to the back, it increase the amount of weight the FEL is trying to lever up into the air, using the front axle as a pivot point. The same goes, but obviously in reverse, when you have a heavy 3PTH load.
I'm not sure what the "slip hub" is, do you mean the pilot center that the rim slips onto?
Best of luck. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoBallast in the wheels
| wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 676 
|
2006-03-24 126602
rgpbeme
The balast is a liquid and usually filled to above the rim levels to prevent corrision of the rims, internally.
COG would be shifted, somewhat. The COG would be the abosulute WEIGHT CENTER, if the ballast was solid and you could lay it on its side, than where is the center for balance? This center would shift as you increased the angle of the wheel, such as inclines etc.
I am also tryingto calculate how the ROPs is affecting my Overall COG. If you took a a tallpole and stuck it into something it would cause that something to tilt, so what is the affect of the ROPs/ If I am working inclinces would it be , kinda of a rundundant thought here to fold down the ROPS to lower the COG and ruin safety? or leave the ROPs Up and make the tractor more unstable? I have a 4115 and the weight ratio is quit a bit different from someone who has a 4120 or 4300 oe a 4400 series. I have been thinking about adding the wheel weights as well to lower the overall COG of the wheels. I really don't understand why they made such a Narrow wheel base. I may be all wet, but that is my thinking and I have been doing a lot on this subject and I have had many contradicting comments madeto me by several people. So your questions and the replies that will follow will have been reading.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoBallast in the wheels
 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
Pics
|
2006-03-24 126603
wingwiper often the width has a lot to do with function, it would be a ugly mowing job if the tractor had a 60" deck and the wheels were 72"wide. For the nominal weight of that roll bar keep it up and keep the seat belt fastened! I've seen more deaths from roll bar tractors that the operator didn't have the belt fastened then with out although with out it's a fat chance you might get thrown totally clear. From the latest studies the liquid filled tire is not the best ballast. The liquid slows the tires reaction time down to irregularities in the ground in effect decreasing the traction. I do prefer wheel weights and you would get the same results of traction with about 1/2 the weight. When tractors are equipped with front loaders I like to go with three point hitch ballast. This uses the rear axle for a pivot relieving a lot of stress from the front axle and steering components. You say you have a cracked hub so that tells me you more then likely have a small B-series. I'd say that it must have been run loose or over tightened for that to have happened. I would have it replaced as most cracks only get bigger. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoBallast in the wheels
| wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 676
|
2006-03-24 126607
Art
I know you are right about the seat belt, but let me tell you a quick story.
I was driving a Volvo 770 and had a 53 footer behind me and if I remeber I might have been about 60k gross. Anyways I had left Albany NY and was heading West on I-88 thru Cobbleskil and on to Binghamton, well there is a 5 mile moutain and it was snowy and icy, we had been taught that when a trailer comes up beside ya to step on the gas. Well I was doing about 30MPH and these dumb-a-- Canadians were flying by me...LOL And I looked out my window and my trailer was almost right up beside me, everything in my body was YELLING "BRAKE BRAKE BRAKE" and my peeop shoot was so tight that had I farted it would have been a whistle. It took everything I had to step on the gas and increase my speed and go down that ountain fastert hat what I was. I did and I writting to you today. My Pucker Factor on the tractor when it starts to lean is not to be strapped in and I have not been able to belt myself yet. I am dealing with the same pucker factor as I did that night west of Cobbleskil.
Mine is a liquid and it is suppose to be a NON corrsive but they still filled it above the rims.
I don't have a mower for my tractor and I don't beleive the 4115 is much over 48" outside of tire to outside of tire, my 48" tiller tills the soil and there is NO TIRE TRACKS.
It makes sense about what you say about the liquid slowing the tires down, I would think it would be some extra resistance to overcome there.
They say the wheel weights for the 4115 is only about 40 pounds apiece, I hardly think that is enogh for me to relax. Damn the ballast in the tires is over 400 pounds each.
Art, that ROPS is pretty heavy, I have folded it a few times and I have to beleive that is affecting my COG. Do they make like a Outrigger with wheels for tractors?
My only real ballast is the BH but I can get belly hung pretty easy with that critter always on ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoBallast in the wheels
| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
Pics
|
2006-03-24 126612
wingwiper, they say you have never driven a tractor trailer till you've had one jackknife! Been there done that but more then once as your talking of my home area. The weights can be stacked on most tractors and yes 80lbs would leave you short by a bit. Most times three sets can be added and we have actually gone more from time to time. I used to be a diehard on the liquid ballast until I saw the differences on like make and model. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoBallast in the wheels
| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
Pics
|
2006-03-24 126613
Wingwiper, God-forbid that machine of yours ever goes greasy side up, I sure hope you're belted in......
I've seen several, and heard about many more, machines that rolled. In only one case was the operator seriously injured, in fact killed, while he was belted in. In that case he would have been dead anyways, even if he wasn't belted in, the bank the machine was working on gave way and the machine suddenly tumbled over into a pond. The operator was pinned under the machine in the water and died.
In all other cases I've come across, the risk of being crushed by the machine, by far the biggest risk in a rollover, is greatly diminished when you are belted in to the safety zone formed by the ROPS.
Best of luck. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoBallast in the wheels
 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
Pics
|
2006-03-24 126614
I rolled mine once. The seat belt and ROPS did their job. I won't even back it out of the garage anymore without belting up. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoBallast in the wheels
| wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 676
|
2006-03-24 126618
I know I should be belted up, but you all would not beleive what I had to go thru with my Ole Volvo to step on the gas, that was one helluva UN NATURAL ACT.. LOL, Art! I ran that route a 1000 time s if I ran it once, I would get to Binghamton and then head West on 17 or South on 81. If I would say there was a section of road that could give you every imagineable weather condition it would be from Cobbleskil NY to Exit 32 Ravine Pa. Seen it all and I have come thru there were there were dozens of Jack knives all over, mostly the two trailer trucks. I would pull into the yard and they had to pry my fingers off of the steering wheel and I had a Natural Beer Bottle Grip for days.
I need to find my tip factor and once I do then I will be more comfy on the tractor, I have such uneven terrain and I am usually driving in the Jump Position Ger on i mo ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoBallast in the wheels
| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
Pics
|
2006-03-24 126619
Please don't try that.......
I met a man who lost a foot and part of his lower leg doing exactly that.
A CUT rolls over like nothing else does. When it goes, it goes FAST because it is so relatively narrow.
If you try to jump, it will likely spin faster than you can leap and you will end up doing a belly flop on top of a rolling machine, on the next revolution you will be under it.
It happened to the fellow I met when he was 21 years old, and was at the time an avid dirt biker, accustomed to keeping his balance and reacting fast.
Like Ken said, let the ROPS & belt do the job they were intended for.
Leave Superman for the funny pages.....
Best of luck. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add Photo
Go Top
Share This