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 | JD855inWI
Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 38 Mid East Wisconsin 
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2005-03-03 107199
The Citgo station in our area now has a pump labeled “high sulfur diesel fuel” “off road and farm only”. It is $0.50 gallon cheaper, with no road tax added. I started using it in my tractor, but notice more smoke at startup and under heavy load. Is there any long term draw back to using this type fuel?
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| DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 689 Western,Pa. 
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2005-03-03 107207
No, none that I'm aware of.
Thats all I have ever run is the high sulfer off road fuel.
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada 
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2005-03-03 107210
I wish I could get the stuff where I live. ....
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| denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2005-03-03 107215
Do you mean you can't get it at a gas station? All you need to do is get a 55 gal drum and have it filled when you or a friend who uses oil heat gets the house tank filled. I have done that for years easily because dyed diesel is what heats my house. If you yourself use oil heat, you could get a bigger tank like a 275 gal. I suggested the 55 because you could more easily move it home from a friends house. We actually bought a full 275 for a friend and pumped it out in 55 gal drums to haul home. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-03-03 107227
My local fuel distributor tells me he gets two products: one is kerosene and is sold as such.
The other is diesel/home heating oil. It comes in one grade. They(the distributor)dye it red and call it off-road diesel. When It turns cold he adds stuff to it and calls it winter diesel. Sort of like #1.5 fuel.
Maybe it would help you to know that all of the fuel in northern Nevada comes from California refineries. So whatever tree-hugging horse crap goes on over there comes here by extension.
Thank God I can still buy and use diesel additives. They make my little diesels very happy. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-03-04 107248
We did some work years ago on a barren little piece of scrub land in the Carribean just off the coast of Venezuala, a place called Aruba.
Other than drunken tourists and a few disgruntled Dutch ex-pats the only other thing they have is a refinery. The gasoline they sell locally is so bad a fuel injected vehicle won't run on it, and even carbs have to be tweaked to make them work satisfactorily.
The diesel was even worse. When we complained a tech. came out from the refinery, a nice young guy from Houston, TX., and told us it was because the cetane rating was so low, and there was no 'regular' additives for lubricity, etc., like we're used to in North America.
He said he would send someone out to 'fix' our tank full of, alledgedly, diesel fuel. Later in the day a truck carrying a small barrel showed up and they started pumping the contents into the bulk fuel tank.
When asked what it was the answer was "special oil".
200 litres of 'special' oil later they stirred the daylights out of the tank and left.
Darn it all, it worked too, the machines ran like they were on regular diesel back home.
When the tech. came back a few days later I asked him what 'special' oil was, his answer was "vegetable oil". They had 'liberated' a whole barrel of it from the refinery's cafeteria inventory.
He claimed a 10% veg. oil / 90% diesel blend would boost the cetane about 10 points and the lubricity would more than double.
I'm told this basically what they now sell at the pump labelled as "Bio-Diesel" fuel.
Best of luck. ....
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4299 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-03-04 107293
Murf, vegatable oil will gum up the works in a diesel if it is not properly treated with a mixture of lye and methyl alcohol. The resulting mixture and chemical processing results in soy methyl ester and glyserin. The glyserin sinks to the bottom of the tank and the rest is soy methyl ester (SME) aka biodiesel. I suspect that is what he put in the tank. Dependent upon the type of vegetable oil it was; the end product should be about 50 to 55 cetane. It is what we should be using in this country to put our farmers back to profitable work and keep our money spent at HOME. ....
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| AVANCE
Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16 West Plains, Mo.
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2005-03-05 107303
It's my understanding home heating fuel is #1 fuel oil. Diesel for tractors is almost always #2 fuel oil. A blend of the two in winter months can help overcome some of the winter/diesel problems but this blend is really not too good to use during the summer. I would be very reluctant to use plain home heating fuel in my diesel tractor engines. The red color is added to fuel that signifies road tax has NOT been paid.
You chemists out there, is this correct??? ....
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| denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2005-03-05 107312
It may vary depending on where you live. Here in SE PA, it is stamped right on my home heating oil bill "dyed #2 diesel." Also around here I have never seen #1 for sale. Maybe they blend some for the road pumps? I have never had any trouble with untreated #2 in winter, but we rarely go below single digits and if we do, it is only for hours, not days so far. This year I did treat my #2 just for safe measure, especially because of the newer tractor. More to improve quality than gel point. Probably not necessesary but cannot hurt. For the house, tank is inside so treating or #1 is irrelevant. After treatment it came to $1.50/ gal. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-03-05 107313
I have come to the conclusion that there a huge regional differences. It may also be dependent on which refinery the stuff comes from. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-03-07 107426
Randy, I'm sure you are correct and it was not straight vegetable oil, but it had been 'doctored' up a little.
Mark, you too are correct. BIG differences exist. Back in the 'old days' when the Ford trucks had two tanks and I routinely dragged my boat between north and south I used to keep the smaller tank full of Canadian diesel and only run & refuel the bigger tank. When I was coming to an upgrade I would switch over and run the Cannuck fuel, over the top I switched back to the cheaper local stuff. One some hills, particularly Walker Mountain TN (?) it made a difference of going over the top doing the speed limit, or 4 ways flashing and doing 45mph.
Best of luck. ....
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| lbrown59
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2006-04-28 128489
I would be very reluctant to use plain home heating fuel in my diesel tractor engines.
AVANCE
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Why Fuel oil and Diesel is the same stuff? Only the names have been changed to confuse the public. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2006-04-28 128492
"Why Fuel oil and Diesel is the same stuff? Only the names have been changed to confuse the public."
That is not only a very dangerous and misleading statement to make, it's WRONG. Close, but WRONG.
Home heating oil and # 2 diesel are "chemically" the same thing, both being 'middle' distillates, in the same range of length of carbon chain, around C15 to C18 range, but that is all.
Diesel fuel has a much lower level of sulphur, and a MUCH lower ash content, as well as being far lower in things like water, parafin, and other contaminents.
Running a diesel engine for long on home heating oil can end up being a VERY expensive lesson in false economics.
Best of luck. ....
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 | harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY 
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2006-04-29 128539
Murf that is a good definition of the technical differences.
That is also why it is important to talk to the supplier.
Our distributer interchanges "#2" and "off road" it comes out of the same tank at the refinery. Our #1 is #2 cut with kero. I believe that true #1 is more of a kero?
Kersoene is shipped clear from the refinery (to the best of my knowledge) and is dyed at the local terminal for non tax applications.
Clear Kero is used during the winter to cut Low sulfur on road. It is also sold to the little kero stove people that package or provide small amouts to home users. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2006-04-29 128553
There are some regional differences with diesel as we are seeing with the 47 different formulations of gasoline.
We get all of our fuel from California refineries, so we are subject to their environmental regs. As a result, we get one grade of diesel fuel that is also sold as home heating oil.
For winter use the local distributor mixes the one grade of diesel/home heating oil he gets with an additive (not kero) to lower the gel point and calls it "winter blend".
As California seems to lead the nation in such things, it seems likely that this program will sooner or later come to your state.
We do also get bulk kero, but based on how puny our diesel cetane numbers are here, I wouldn't think of using it as motor fuel. ....
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