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 | Harry Webster
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2000-02-25 13148
Another Newbie Question: I am looking at my options for ballast on my 4100 w/loader. I have the ballast box and I am trying to decide between wheel weights and liquid ballast for the rear tires. The manual calls for three wheel weights per tire or liquid ballast at 75% fill. My options for liquid appear to be limited to calcium chloride or antifreeze. I am leaning towards water/antifreeze because it is not corrosive, although it is not quite as heavy. What are the pros and cons of wheel weights vs. liquid? Can I install liquid myself? The Firestone web page lists 15 gallons to fill my 12x16.5 R4's to 75%. I tried to search the archives, but the search engine seems to be down. HarryW
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 | cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York 
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2000-02-25 13158
Harry, I use an old 6' heavy duty rear blade that extends quite a ways rearward to counter my loader on the 4100. Not only does it do a great job at that, it is useful when working with the loader. This leaves the tractor lighter for mowing etc. and is easy to remove. ....
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 | dsg
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 528 Franklin, Maine 
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2000-02-25 13161
Harry;
I went with a cement block on the 3pt. It cost less than $50. to make and you can make it as heavy as you want and remove it when you want. E-mail me if you are interested and I will explain. Its a little long so I won't do it here.
David ....
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2000-02-26 13177
Harry, it is all a tradeoff. Here are the arguments: Using 3pt mount implements for weight has the advantage that it also counterbalances the loader. The downside is that they put more stress on the tractor frame - or on the cast components (engine block, bellhousing, and transmission housing) if it is an integral frame. 3pt weight also increases the shear stress on the wheel bearings and axles. Weighing the tire or wheel does not put these stresses on the tractor, but does not counterbalance the loader nearly as well.
As for liquid vs wheel weights, the liquid is can be a pain with flat tires, it is corrosive to various degrees, and putting the mass at a distance from the center of rotation of the wheel can cause "self-steering" at road speed. The plus side of liquid is that it is cheap and easy to do. The down side of wheel weights are that they are unreasonably expensive and need to be specially ordered because they only fit a narrow range of wheel types.
Maybe a compromise is best. On my own machine I use one set of wheel weights and as heavy of an implement as seems reasonable.... Roger L.
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2000-02-26 13178
I guess that says a LOT about the double steel frame Kabota uses. I'll bet you can't break it due to implement stress! ....
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| Jim Youtz
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-02-26 13187
If you just need the counterweight for using a loader, most everyone I've seen just uses a box scraper on the 3 pt hitch. It's a handy implement to have, isn't too unreasonable in price, and weighs about 400# for a 4 foot box (best size for a 4100). If you need more weight you can always add a cast concrete block to the top of the box. The 4100 has a 3 pt capacity of 930#, so it would be tough to overload it for counterweight purposes. ....
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| Jim Youtz
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-02-26 13188
I forgot to add with my last post: filled tires are not a good idea if you also plan to use the tractor for lawn mowing. You probably don't want that kind of weight on your lawn, so it's better to go with removeable weight. ....
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2000-02-27 13192
I have never used a box scraper. It appears that it is a landscaping device that will dig bare ground [as in a new construction lot] and then re-spread it evenly. Am I correct? Or are there other uses for the homeowner? ....
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2000-02-27 13197
Sure are other uses for the box scraper, Cutter. As Jim says, they are great for counterbalance being heavy, short, and relatively cheap. They also make a great work platform with a piece of plywood for a top. Mounting tool carriers to them is easy...good place to carry weed whackers, chain saws and buckets of stuff hung off the teeth when they are mounted points up. Lastly, they make a dandy pusher for those times when you want to back unto something and scoot it around while being able to see exactly what is going on. As a bumper it protects you and the back of the tractor without sticking out too far. I rarely ever move dirt with mine..... ....
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| JJT
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 93 Upstate NY, USA
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2000-02-27 13198
A box scraper is a poor man's dozer. Invaluable implement to break ground, rough grade and even finish grade work. With the scarifier teeth down you can quickly loosen alot of heavy soil and roll out most of the annoying stones that lie just under the surface. With the teeth retracted you can finish spread topsoil and gravel. Excellent driveway/road building tool as well as site improvement. They work as well in reverse as they do farward, (I've used mine to backfill right up to foundations). Mine's a very heavy built Bush Hog, 6" box, that weighs 600#+ and cost ~ $600. You can do a fair amount of comparable work with your bucket by back blading, but the scraper box is much faster and you have much more control. My box holds 18 cubic feet of material, I can back blade less than half of that... My york rake gets little use now that I have the box scraper. This is my second favorite implement, right after the loader.
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2000-02-28 13209
Box scrapers are a long way from tire ballast, but that's the way conversation goes I guess. Pretty sure I'll get a scraper this spring and thinking through the sorts of things I can do with it. Appreciate any operating tips.
For example, the crown on a hill section of my gravel drive probably should be redone. I was thinking how I might do this with a scraper. The idea is: Tilt the scraper with the 3ph leveler. Lower the hitch until the low side of the blade contacts the outside edge of the drive and pull forward. The weight of the scraper should cut gravel on the outside edge; fill the box from the outside toward the centre; and spread gravel cut from the outside over the width of the box.
Don't know if it works that way. Sure be nice if it did. Thanks for any comments. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2000-02-28 13217
Tom, (and everyone else) there is an easier way to accomplish such things as cross-slope grading. Get a set of skid shoes for a snow-plow and mount them on the inside front of the box blade. By individually adjusting side to side heights you can end up with a grade that is different from the one the tractor sits on, such as building a crown on a driveway. Cost in dollars, few, savings in time and convenience, immeasureable... Best of luck. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2000-02-29 13244
Murf: Thanks. I did think about skids, but wondered how much trouble they'd be to mount. Guess I'll have to take a close look at a blade to look for appropriate mounting surfaces before buying. ....
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2000-02-29 13251
Murph's idea sounds good. I use a similar way of doing it...although it would probably look entirely different until you see it in action. What I have is a heavy back blade with tilt, angle, offset, and a set of end plates. You can set it for a different angle than the tractor is following...in fact, you can do that on any tractor just by adjusting your three point lift arm - although being able to do it at the blade or with shoes (or both) as Murph does is many times better.
I set the back blade tilt for the angle of slope that I want, set the angle for ease of moving the dirt, and offset as needed, and put ONE end cap on whichever is the trailing end of the blade. Take small scrapes, and expect to make many passes. Each successive pass will move the dirt a little farther. The biggest mistake people make is trying to do it all in big bites. The way to do it is to take a very smooth small bites and each pass moves it over farther. Using the blade plus endcapps makes a back blade like a box blade plus it has the ability to tilt, angle, and offset the blade. My feeling is that a good back blade with end caps does the same work as a box blade but is better at moving dirt laterally because the blade can be angled to spill off of one side. The downside is that this type of heavy 3-way adjustable back blade with end caps is more expensive than a box blade....twice to as much as four or five times the price of a good box blade is the range that I have seen. Mine is a Servis Rhino, and I believe it cost $1700 originally. ....
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| L.F. Denaro, IV
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-02-29 13276
Harry, you can install liquid yourself. You will need an adapter kit, which you can buy at Trator Supply Co., or equiv. farm supply. Be sure you have tubes, as you will not want to do this otherwise. I had some help from DAD, but it wasn't difficult, just seeing it done the first time. You will have to take out valve stem core to which you will attach the kit. Anti-freeze can be poured into a funnel attached to end of adapter. I used a gallon then added water to about 3/4 top of tire. A lot cheaper than having someone come out to do it. Tire store wanted $125 per tire. You can do it for cost of kit and 2 gals of antifreeze. Save your money. I have a 970 Deere FWD with 13.6 x 24 rears. Good luck-Frank. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2000-03-01 13281
Thanks Roger:
Back blade vs box scraper was another of my quandaries. Knew all the tilts, angles, swings and offsets of a good back blade would be useful (Sort of reminds me of an old billows portrait camera).
However, I suspected that a box blade would be better at grading. I think the idea is that storing dirt in the box which also spreads under the rear blade at the same time the scraper is cutting gives better control than storing dirt on the front of a blade.
Well, I didn't know about end plate accessories. Sure would keep more dirt on the front of the blade and make smaller berms. Guess that now I have to figure out if I can do a decent job of grading with a back blade.
Lord this gets complicated. Oh well, almost anything would be an improvement on my grading with a loader bucket. Suppose I'll get better with the loader, but right now parts of the gravel drive look like they were designed with a french curve.
Thanks for the input. If I can't figure it out, I'll just have to get a bigger shed. Course I'd have to talk to the wife, and that could get complicated too. ....
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| TonyG
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-03-01 13326
Murf, what are skid shoes? Know of any sites where I can see a pic of one. seems like they would help me in maintaining my driveway.
thanks, tonyG ....
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| TonyG
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-03-01 13327
Murf, what are skid shoes? Know of any sites where I can see a pic of one. seems like they would help me in maintaining my driveway.
thanks, tonyG ....
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2000-03-01 13328
Tony, Skid shoes are found on the bottom of snow plows, for one place. You could probably go to your local Western or Myers or Fisher snow plow dealer and buy a pair fairly cheap. They are usually a "stalk" or "shaft" aprox. 6" long with eather a shoe shaped or a disc shaped foot. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2000-03-01 13332
Skid shoes are indeed most commonly found on the bottom of a snow plow. Best way to describe them is they are a saucer-shaped steel plate with a steel stem pointing up, sort of like an upside-down mushroom. The idea is no matter which direction (or how much you turn)you go they skim over, instead of digging in, when you're working on something softer than asphalt. Best of luck. ....
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