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 02-28-2008, 21:09 Post: 151768
hardwood

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 Welders for Grandsons

We have two Grandsons, both 14 who spend part of the summer with us, both have asked Grandpa to teach them to weld this summer. I've welded since a kid with stick, a few years ago I bought new Lincoln 250 wire with the gas and all the goodies. I hated the thing from the git go, so in disgust I sold it. Should I have someone else teach them to run a wire or teach them to run a stick myself? If they are serious about it after they give it a try I will buy them each a welder for Christmas. Thanks. Frank.






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 02-29-2008, 06:06 Post: 151769
harvey



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 Welders for Grandsons

Morning Frank

I came up in the old school. I just do not believe when teaching to weld you can beat the old reliable basic buzz box. The new ones with ac/dc are even better.

If they are good the skys the limit with arc controls etc I replaced my buzz box with a fancy stick one with arc controls, mig/tig capiable if I want. I can weld with 1/16 rod to ? the biggest I use is 5/32 but I drag out the generator if I burning lots of that. The 1/16 is cool on sheet metal

You get rod angle and heat selection for penetration
You force arc distance
you force puddle control
you can see the process better because you can force slower speed and see the puddle
If they learn out of position with stick when they do go to wire they will have better welds

I've seen several of our mechanics that can not stick a peanut butter sandwich together yet get purty welds with wire ohhh and ahhh but the weld never penetrated.

Just my thoughts. Sounds like you have a lot of 6011 experience from the farm. Nothing like learning on the bottom of a daily use manure spreader. AHHHHH the fragrance! The memory...

Harvey






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 02-29-2008, 07:44 Post: 151770
earthwrks

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 Welders for Grandsons

Franky as you know, I'm your kids' age--sooooooo I'll let you "teach" me how to weld, 'k? Buuuut the deal is I git a welder too--a nice one---for Christmas--or sooner. I don't actually have to "be there" for you to teach me Laughing out loud. We'll call it "long distance learning."

Seriously though, I would indulge them as much as possible--I see it as an investment in their future. 14 is about the age (I know you can't remember back that far) where learning is critical and makes a long and lasting impression not only of what a great grampa they have but that they can possibly build a future on it. That said, and it sounds like you have the moola, I'd take Harvey's advice and go with a TIG too. I've done production MIG and TIG when I was 18 or 20 and it was easy--IF you have the right equipment. But Like Harvey said about purty welds and NO penetration, it can be a learning experience turn-off if the experience is a bad one. Portable, self-employed welders in my area get $50 an hour.

I can arc weld but don't have the patience to really do it right.






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 02-29-2008, 08:36 Post: 151772
kthompson



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 Welders for Grandsons

Frank, production you can not beat the wire fed welders. For variety don't think you can beat the arc welder. What kind of support for welding will they have other than you? Will they take the welders to their home with little to weld or to a shop with a freguent amount to weld? kt








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 02-29-2008, 10:07 Post: 151780
Murf



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 Welders for Grandsons

Frank, Harvey pretty much nailed it.

I'm of the religion that welding and driving both, kids should learn with the basics, you learn to drive with a stick shift, and you learn to weld with a stick welder. There's nothing better for teaching the basics of welding.

Ya gotta walk before you run.

I've had both of my sisters kids with me for the summers while they were finishing high school and doing college, they both learned to weld on an old Lincoln buzz-box in my shop.

These days decent little 120 volt jobs are a dime a dozen, if the kids never go anywhere with it, no big loss. They are great for light stuff and sheet metal.

Have the kids build their own mini-bikes, even a big kid can have a lot of fun on a 2-wheeler with a 5hp Honda......

That reminds me, I think I better get the clutch replaced on mine, errr, I mean theirs, before spring comes. Wink yeah right

Best of luck.






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 02-29-2008, 15:30 Post: 151783
BillMullens

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 Welders for Grandsons

Murf touched on something there that I have found to be true. While you have to learn the basics on some scrap, once they can stick the metal together, get them working on a project. I learned the basics by rounding up all of the metal sillouhettes from the local rifle/pistol range and fixing them up. It wasn't much later I built my first trailer.

I would prefer stick welders to learn on. Unless I'm welding 1/8" or thinner metal, I always use my Lincoln buzz box. If they are serious about it, maybe next year for a wire feed.

I hope to teach my own little boy to weld someday.

Good luck,
Bill






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 02-29-2008, 15:55 Post: 151786
kthompson



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 Welders for Grandsons

Frank, if I can combine something I was told last night in a class with Murf and Bill has said...train them to weld, buy them stick welder, help them find some work like Bill did and encourage them to do simple jobs for pay and buy the bigger, wire welder for themselves. You will be taught them much more than just welding. kt






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 02-29-2008, 18:21 Post: 151789
hardwood

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 Welders for Grandsons

Thanks for all the info. I learned on an old Lincoln 180 "Buzz Box" that my Dad bought me when I was about the Grandson's age. That was my one and only welder till about 15 years ago when it finally "Bit the Big One". I then bought a Lincoln 225 "Buzz Box" till I bought the wire machine. Like was said the wire looked like a factory weld, but penetration was almost zero. so the 225 is my one and only today. It handles 3/32 thru 5/32 nicely mostly 6011 on old stuff if there was any steel left after the rust was cleaned away. I did take a bit of formal training at a night school after high school to learn vertical and overhead. I know new steel is pricey anymore but I'll gladly furnish some decent steel and some 6013 to give them the basics of proper prepareation, fit up, penetration, etc. then on to some simple projects with my 225. Then if they are still wanting to advance I'll probably get them a 225 like they learned on for Christmas or sooner, and as someone said let them buy their own more high level stuff. The boy closest to us wouldn't have a place to put a welder, but being he is fifteen munites away he can plug his in here and the far away boy can plug his in in his dad's garage. We also have three Grandaughters, 17 - 13 - 6. The two older ones worked along side me in the woodshop most of last summer, and did very well at it, but as most girls, I'm sure they will discover BOYS and the tablesaw may get lonely. Thanks again. Frank.






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 02-29-2008, 21:52 Post: 151795
Woodie



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 Welders for Grandsons

I'll echo the same as Harvey , Murf and others. Go with the basic buzz box. Reminds me of how i learned welding, driving and photography. What me and my brother did was I bought the buzz box and he bought the Oxy-actelyene setup, we borrow back and forth,i'm a bit better with the arc and he's better with the torch. I've not had much luck with the 'automatics of welding' aka mig etc. As to the photography - learned on a very manual SLR and advanced and have moved up to "electronic total control", shake eliminate etc.-i find take more pictures but they are not of the composition/finese/quality of the onesfrom the manual camera. To paraphrase what Harvey said of the new welders but for photos "look nice but no substance' just a'record shot '. Yes, do the basics first. I find the more 'automatic' a piece of equipment is the more "rush thru it" I behave.
Side note- I taught/made my daughter learn to drive a stick and told her 'if she can drive a manual transmission she won't be at a disadvantage for types of transportion', now she's in college and gets a kick out of freaking out most of her acquiances, scares some and intrigues others that she drives a stick.






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 03-04-2008, 07:39 Post: 151882
kleinchris



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 Welders for Grandsons

Hobart makes a wire welder called the Easy Handler 110. This welder lets you change voltage to change penetration, but controls the feed speed itself. For a beginner, this simplifies part of the process by taking that factor out of the equation. Of coarse, you're only going to get 110 amps out of this little fellow, but that is enought to get penetration on 3/16, 1/4 if you do some beveling.
This unit will be sold between $250-$300. (Tractor Supply, Northern.)






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Welding Forum

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