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 09-18-2001, 14:16 Post: 31866
Curt



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 Diesel engine spits oil from exhaust

I have a Ford 1700 diesel that has about 1600 hrs on it. Recently it began spitting oil droplets from the exhaust. I took it to a repair shop (not a dealer) and he said that it wasn't spitting oil but that it was fuel so he had the injectors tested and then replaced them (2@$120). He also changed the oil. When I got it and drove it around it didn't spit oil/fuel anymore until I hooked up the bush hog and put the engine under load. Then it began spitting again although not nearly as bad. I haven't had the tractor long enough to know how much oil it uses but it has always smoked slightly. My question is: can oil getting into the cylinder damage fuel injectors? The tractor runs fine but I don't wan't to fork out another $240 for fuel injectors. How much oil must get into the cylinder for it not to burn? The shop where I took it was small and did not have the proper adapter to do a compression check but I think at this point it is may be necessary to haul it to a dealer to have it properly diagnosed.






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 09-19-2001, 00:41 Post: 31870
Mark G.



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 Diesel engine spits oil from exhaust

Curt it sounds like you may need to take your tractor to a dealer and have the compression checked. If it is turely spitting oil then you could have a busted oil ring on your piston. I hope it is nothing serious.






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 09-21-2001, 06:37 Post: 31917
TomG

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 Diesel engine spits oil from exhaust

I may not be entirely correct in all details below. If I'm not, I hope to hear about it. I believe it's normal for a diesel to puff a bit of gray exhaust on acceleration. Black smoke generally is excess injection or overheating. Blue smoke is oil getting into the upper cylinder areas--same as with gas engines. I'm guessing the repair shop did an injector spray pattern test, found two bad patterns and replaced parts. The reasoning here would be that a bad pattern indicates poor fuel atomization which could produce raw fuel coming out the exhaust, especially when at full-throttle. However, I don't know exactly what was replaced. I don't know if the nozzles themselves are replaceable or if the entire injectors were replaced. The trouble is that I think that injector problems other than bad nozzles could cause raw fuel out the exhaust. The delivery valves also may be candidates. Injector work is pretty specialized business. There's nothing exactly magic about a dealer's shop, but the skills and testing equipment should be available. It's a little hard to say how a small repair shop is set up. Could be great but also could be not quite adequate. However, I'd tend to go with the shop's assessment that it's fuel and not engine oil. If it's fuel, then you may note the engine oil level goes up rather than down. Engine oil dilution by fuel thins the oil and can cause damage. I believe there should be some blue smoke if it's engine oil getting into the upper cylinder areas. Oil can get into the upper cylinders by being drawn down the intake valve stems due to worn valve guides. This problem may be associated with hard starting due to low compression. Another way for oil to get into the upper cylinder areas is from stuck or broken oil rings that don't wipe the cylinder walls adequately. This problem may not be associated with low compression. Another way for an engine to burn oil is for compression gases to get past the compression rings and burn some oil on route to the crankcase. This source of oil burning would be characterized by hard starting (low compression) and smoke from the crankcase breather. In a way, it's too bad the oil was changed or it could be checked for fuel dilution. It's sort of tough to keep running an engine that may have a broken ring just as a test for the fuel system.






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 09-21-2001, 10:28 Post: 31929
FarmerWannabe



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 Diesel engine spits oil from exhaust

Tom, you wrote me earlier re oil and then smoke coming from my breather tube. I wrote later to say that my oil level was up nearly 2 quarts. You also mentioned oil viscosity which I may have ignored. Is it possible that my oil level is up because fuel is getting in the oil? I assume this would also thin the oil which reduces its ability to protect the engine. What causes this and what can be done to correct this? I have heard of oil getting past rings and pistons and being burnt with the fuel but I had not heard of fuel getting in the oil. Which is worse? ( I have a older Kubota 7200 diesel).






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 09-24-2001, 14:23 Post: 31983
TomG

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 Diesel engine spits oil from exhaust

Just got back from our camp or would have replied earlier. Got to go back and finish a rail fence in a couple of days. Just didn't have enough motivation to keep working in the rain we're getting today.

If the engine oil level is going up and a glug of anti-freeze isn't in the bottom of the oil pan, then dilution by fuel is a likely explanation. Both are conditions that should be repaired to prevent damage to the engine.

One source of fuel in the engine oil is faulty injectors that are leaking down. Basically, injectors are spring loaded valves that spray fuel through the nozzles when line pressure is above a certain pressure (a bit below 2000 lbs. generally). An injector must be able to hold fuel in the lines at just below its injection pressure. A leaky injector leaks fuel into its cylinder at times when the fuel does not ignite. The unburned fuel ends up in the crankcase--after washing engine oil off the cylinder walls. Another source of fuel in the engine oil (on some engines) are leaky seals in the pump. On many engines, there are several passages between fuel in the pump and engine oil that are closed off by seals. Fuel that gets past the pump seals also ends up in the crankcase. A dealer should know if the pump on your tractor can put fuel into the oil.

The 'white smoke = excess or wrong viscosity' comment came out of my repair manual. I don't really know if wrong viscosity means to thick, or too thin, or either. I'd guess that both excess oil and too thin oil would result in oil getting in places it shouldn't. So, I imagine that oil that is thinned by diesel may make white exhaust. Maybe somebody else can say for sure.








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 09-25-2001, 09:12 Post: 32005
Art White



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 Diesel engine spits oil from exhaust

You shouold check to see if your engine is running up to temperature. During the winter we see a lot of tractors that the thermostat is not good and won't bring the tractor up to temp causing low cylinder temperature and not burning the all fuel. This gives you exhaust slobber like you described.






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 09-25-2001, 17:01 Post: 32013
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 Diesel engine spits oil from exhaust

Actually it spits more oil/fuel the hotter it gets. I'm thinking that when the engine gets hot the oil thins out which makes it easier for the oil to slip by a poor ring seal. I don't think the fuel injectors were the root cause of the problem. The weather is significantly cooler now and that's why I think it's spitting less. If the problem was the injectors it shouldn't be spitting at all especially since it has new oil in it. Am I right or is there some other explanation?






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 09-26-2001, 05:58 Post: 32023
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 Diesel engine spits oil from exhaust

Curt: I hope you get some help here in thinking about this thing in a way that eliminates possibilities and eventually finds the problem.

I think it's important to identify for certain if it's engine oil or fuel that is coming out the exhaust. I think that most times excessive oil in the upper cylinders would be exposed to combustion and that should produce some blue exhaust smoke in addition to any oil droplets. At any rate, if there's noticeable oil coming out the exhaust, the oil crankcase oil level should go down. If you're operating the tractor, you might monitor the oil level closely. Of course, there's the small possibility that two problems exist. An engine could be burning oil as well as getting fuel into the crankcase at the same time.

I don't know what to make of the temperature thing. I'm not sure how much cooler weather would affect oil temperature if the thermostat is working. In addition, multi-grade oils may well be thicker, rather than thinner, at operating temperature.

On the other hand, if the repair was competent and tested and replaced 2 of 3 entire injectors, rather than just the nozzles, then the injectors don't seem to be a likely explanation. One thing about injectors is that they properly atomize fuel only when they're spraying through good nozzles at fairly high pressures. A good injector doesn't open until high pressure is reached. Another part of the system called the delivery valve produces a sharp pressure drop below a certain pressure. I know that an injector will 'dribble' if the delivery valve isn't working. I don't know if this dribble could account for your exhaust spitting. Iíd discount such explanations as gross maladjustment of pump or engine timing if the engine is working fairly normally and not smoking. Iíd also discount excess injection unless thereís black smoke and over-heating, but you might check the max no load rpm to see if it's in spec. You also might check if the 'spitting' is greater at high loads.






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 09-26-2001, 08:43 Post: 32029
Art White



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 Diesel engine spits oil from exhaust

With what you are saying it complicates diagnosis. You might have either broken rings or they are just contaminated with crud. How long do you spend with the bush-hog on mowing? The two cylinder engines did not get the life of many of there three cylinder engines but yours sounds like you might have a failure internal.






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 09-27-2001, 05:34 Post: 32056
TomG

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 Diesel engine spits oil from exhaust

I see I'm guilty of likening a 1700 to my 1710. I didn't know 1700's were two-cylinder. Regarding one of the original questions about the possibility of oil getting into the fuel through bad injectors: There is a theoretical path from the crankcase to the injectors on my 1710 since the injector pump is lubricated by engine oil. However, I don't think there is enough oil in to area to produce the problem described, and the sort of pump failure that would provide a path between oil and fuel would more likely produce fuel in the oil than oil in the injectors.

If the spitting is oil rather than fuel, I'm sort of stuck wondering why there doesn't seem to be much oil smoke in the exhaust. I guess I wonder why oil in the upper cylinders wouldn't be exposed to combustion and produce smoke. I'm also not sure why oil that wasn't being adequately wiped off the cylinder walls by oil rings would form droplets and be expelled out the exhaust. Could happen since Iím working with theory rather than experience here. Broken rings would be an expensive problem, but some oil additives can cure stuck rings. Wouldn't hurt to run an additive and see what happens I guess. Another possibility might be oil drawn down the valve guides. I believe there is a scavenger cycle on diesel as well as gas engines during which both the exhaust and intake valves are open. Seriously worn guides or a lot of oil in the rocker-arm area could result in oil going down the guides and being directly blown out the exhaust. Valve guides shouldn't be badly worn at 1600 hours, but maybe there's excessive oil going to the rocker arms. It might be a good idea to remove the rocker arm cover to see how much oil is present after the engine runs for awhile. There shouldn't be a lot. Thereís a possibility that an oil feed line to the rocker arm shaft is off. Some shafts have plugs in the ends that hold oil inside that can come off.






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