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 12-08-2003, 15:21 Post: 70572
Justus



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 Hydraulic Noise

I had a 7308 FEL put on my (2002) TC33D about a month ago.
I took it off the tractor the other day as at the present time I can't get my tractor w/loader and back blade in a shed that I have. I wanted to use the back blade for snow removal. At any rate, here's the problem. Now that I took the FEL off the tractor, the hydraulic system seems to whine loudly for about half an hour or so whenever I raise the 3PH. It only does it while I'm raising the backblade. It didn't do that before I had the FEL installed; at least nothing like it's doing it now. The hydraulics work fine; I'm just a little concerned that I'm somehow abusing the hydraulics. The fluid level is fine and I even plug in the block heater for a few hours before starting it up to facilitate warming things up. The temps around here in NE Pennsylvania have been in the teens and twenties which really isn't too bad yet. Do I have a (potential)problem here or should I just buy a Walkman?






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 12-08-2003, 15:26 Post: 70573
AC5ZO

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 Hydraulic Noise

There are others that know more about the 7308 than I do, but some NH attachments are plumbed so that you must route a return line back to an unused port on the hydraulic pump. If you don't do this, the high pressure bypass may be making noise.

I have not checked the plumbing on my loader, but what I have described can happen when I remove my NH backhoe.






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 12-08-2003, 15:41 Post: 70576
Justus



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 Hydraulic Noise

My New Holland dealer is the one that installed the loader so I'm hoping they knew what they were doing.
Before I had the loader installed the hydraulics would make noise in the cold weather when raising the 3ph shortly after starting but things would warm up quickly and the noise would vanish. Now it seems to take a very long time.






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 12-08-2003, 15:56 Post: 70579
AC5ZO

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 Hydraulic Noise

This may not be related to the FEL at all. It could be related simply to the colder conditions. There is a little valve that controls the speed of the 3PH. On my TC45, it is under the seat. If that valve is closed down it will slow the lift of the 3PH and could cause high pressures and hydraulic bypass. I expect that the hydraulic noise when the relief valve bypasses could be making this noise.

If I remember correctly, it has turtle (slow) and rabbit (fast) markings. Move it toward the faster side and see if that helps.






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 12-08-2003, 17:21 Post: 70588
Justus



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Thanks AC5ZO. Yes, the control valve is located under the seat and I do remember turning it to a slower position in the past so you may be correct. I'll have to check it out tomorrow but I think you you have something there. Thanks again.






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 12-09-2003, 06:33 Post: 70618
TomG

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Hydraulics do make a characteristic sound especially when they're cold. I don't know if you've operated the tractor in similar temperatures before but 'cold' may be the answer. If so, it's likely no problem but switching to an all weather hydraulic oil would help.

You may have operated the tractor during similar temperatures and the sound is worse since the loader was removed. I don't know if the loader valve was taken off along with the loader but here's a possibility of what's going on. If the valve was removed, then the oil flows through fewer orifices etc., which would make it run cooler and take longer to warm up. That idea could be tested by warming up the system and then working it hard--either with traction or repeated heavy 3ph lifting to see if the whine goes away faster. If the loader were on, the bucket could be curled back and held to force the relief valve to open.






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 12-10-2003, 19:55 Post: 70770
Justus



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AC5ZO and TomG, I tried the valve under the seat yesterday thinking that, for sure, that would remedy the noise problem. It didn't. Now today was warmer and I tried the backblade again and it wasn't as bad. Thinking along the lines of what you mentioned about the all weather fluid Tom, I checked the manual on it's recommended hydraulic fluid. I believe it recommended NH 134 fluid for normal use or F200 as an "all Weather" type fluid. I decided to ask my dealer about it and a mechanic there said that the TC29's and the TC33's, after having FEL's put on, were subject to this whining in the hydraulics. The class III's were OK, it was just the class II's that had the noise. He didn't know the reason. He suggested a lighter fluid but said that he would first check with NH service to see what they would recommend for the problem. One thing I should mention...When I raise my back blade by pulling the lever all the way back, it will make that whining noise for several seconds unless I let off the control lever just a tad. Once I back off on the control lever a bit, the whining will stop. Now yesterday, when it was cold, it still whined. I have to emphasize, it was a lot warmer today. I'll see what the mechanic has to say tomorrow. That WALKMAN with the CD player is looking more inviting all the time.






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 12-11-2003, 06:36 Post: 70793
TomG

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Sounds like the mechanic is aware of the problem and the system is normal except for the noise. If lighter oil is a solution, I think some synthetics (if recommended) have better cold weather characteristics than F200.

I guess you've been around the tractor enough to know that many power steering systems make a whine, as do relief valves. When the loader was on you probably heard the relief sound when the bucket was rolled completely back. There's the possibility of a malfunction if that's the sound. 3ph's also have a relief valve but it's usually set for higher pressure than the system relief. A weak one is possible and I don't know if the blade is heavy for the 3ph. That would be rare on a new machine and there would be a loss of power. The whine when you're holding the quadrant lever back likely is that the hitch is still in lift mode. Most have an adjustment that controls when the position takes them out of lift but it's not a problem unless it won't go out of lift when the hitch is full height. Most flow control valves only adjust the rate of lowering and don't affect the lift.






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 12-12-2003, 10:37 Post: 70944
Justus



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Tom, the noise is a bit different from when the bucket is rolled back all the way.
I spoke to the mechanic at my dealer yesterday and he told me that NH suggested I remove the hydro filter and take the base apart. They said there is a spring in there that may not have enough tension on it and to expand the spring if there didn't seem to be any tension. I removed the filter expecting that perhaps I'd be able to feel a spring somewhere up inside but it became obvious that there would be a lot involved in removing the base for the filter. I quickly decided to put that step on hold for now. One thing I did notice was small bubbles, just like champagne after it's poured, rising to the top of the filter that I had removed. I replaced the filter and the noise, for the most part, was eliminated. I know what you're thinking and yes, I did try the backblade before I removed the filter and there was some whining but it's been in the 40's here so it wasn't bad. I'm wondering if air is in the system or if the champagne like bubbles are normal. The mechanic did say yesterday that if it's air in the system the tractor would have to be brought back to the dealer. Why would it be so difficult to bleed the system? Another question I have is if I wanted to replace the fluid with synthetic, which by my calculations would cost me about $100 minimum, how do I ensure that I have removed all of the old fluid from everything including the FEL?






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 12-12-2003, 12:07 Post: 70962
AC5ZO

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Replacing regular fluid with synthetic. You cannot easily get all of the old NH 134 fluid out. It is the same fluid in the transmission as well, so you will have residual on the gears and in any cavities in the housing. On the FEL, you can remove the hoses and cycle the cylinder manually to pump out the old fluid. Or, you can just figure that there is going to be some mixed in and leave it there. Personally, I like synthetic engine oil, but I don't think that I would arbitrarily switch to synthetic hydraulic fluid unless the noise is a severe problem.

re: air in the system. The system should be largely self bleeding. Air separates out when fluid is returned to the supply reservoir. I think that the problem that the dealer might want to see could be with an air leak into the system where there should not be one. That would have to be on the intake side of the hydraulic pump. If it was sucking air there somehow, you could never bleed it out, because it would constantly be renewed. (causing foaming)






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