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 02-25-2003, 21:54 Post: 50064
pyarbro
2003-02-25 21:54:25
Post: 50064
 Long 610 oil blow by

I have a 610 that I recently changed fluids and filterson; it took quite a while to bleed the fuel system; and once started, it smokes (not really bad, as I did throw some Berrymans in the fuel)but now when it warms up, it begins to blow oil out of the crankcase ventilator tube-2-4 qts an hour....is there a blockage somewhere, do I just need to adjust the valves, are the rings frozen, or (HORROR) do I need new rings etc. REALLY need some advice on this one.
Thanks






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 09-14-2003, 09:39 Post: 63834
RickW610
2003-09-14 00:00:00
Post: 63834
 Long 610 oil blow by

Did you ever get a solution to the blow-by. I have the same problem. THANKS






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 09-16-2003, 20:35 Post: 64080
pyarbro



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 Long 610 oil blow by

Rick, no idea yet. I've talked to quite a few people...best guess is going to be 1. new rings (maybe cylinders 2. head gasket is blown. We think the latter as it only blows the oil after it warms up... The tractor is being "tore down" starting this week, and as I get it figured out, I'd be glad to let you know. Phil






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 09-16-2003, 20:58 Post: 64085
Chief



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 Long 610 oil blow by

pyarbro,

How much Berrymans did you put in how much fuel??? Berrymanns if DEFINITELY NOT what you want to put in diesel fuel. Berrymanns is a strong solvent with chief amongst its constituents acetone. NOT what you want to put into a diesel. This is worse than mixing gasoline with the diesel. Depending on the concentration, this may have caused or contributed to a head gasket failure if it did not do more damage to the engine. Berrymanns has explosive ingition characteristics. A compression check will verify the you prognosis. NEVER put anything but a diesel fuel additive or conditioner in diesel fuel. For severe cold use, mixing in some kerosene is OK but not gasoline additives. Hope it is something else. Let us know what you find out. Good luck on the repair.






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 09-17-2003, 07:16 Post: 64111
pyarbro



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 Long 610 oil blow by

Used 1 oz. of berrymans summer diesel conditioner; it's the weaker of the three diesel products they sell. Normally use it twice a year; in a full tank of diesel. Also annually disassemble the injectors and clean them as well...so I just can't attribute the blowby to the Berrymans...but never can tell. As last stated will be rebuilding the engine next week...will let everybody know.
Phil






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 09-17-2003, 08:10 Post: 64115
Chief



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 Long 610 oil blow by

When you said Berrymanns I thought of Berrymans B-12 carb. & fuel injector cleaner. What you used was fine. May just be a case of old age and she finally gave up the ghost. What kind of oil did you put in the engine when you changed the oil? How much oil came out vs. how much oil did you put back in? Reason I ask is that some of the older engines used a thermal convection cooling system vs a pump type and they were prone to heavy sludge build up in the engine. I had an old Cub 154 Lo Boy that would do this. Sometimes heavy sludge accumulation can build up to the point that it blocks off the drainage of oil from some parts of the engine. The owner has the oil pan plug removed and nothing more comes out and they naturally assume all the oil is drained. When they refill the crankcase with oil, they put in the called for amount and now the engine is over filled with oil. If this is the case, the crankshaft would sling it around causing a mess and sometimes the condition you describe. Did you go back and check the engine oil level again? (bear in mind this scenario is pretty unlikely) The owner's manual for my 154 Loboy called for periodically adding kerosene to the engine and flushing the sludge out belive it or not. More likely in an engine this old would be a rusted through head gasket or crapped out rings. What is unusual is that with a blown head gasket there would be other symptoms such as coolant in the oil, oil leakage around the head gasket, a cylinder miss, hard starting and also the condition you describe. If the rings were shot, the engine would be tough to start in most cases and really hard starting in cold weather. Have you been using ether to assist starting this engine? That can contribute to these problems. In any case; hope you figure it out and get off on the cheap. Good Luck!






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 09-17-2003, 22:43 Post: 64205
pyarbro



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 Long 610 oil blow by

Ahh!!! You seem to hit on every one of the comedy of errors that I went through. I bought the tractor with about 460hrs on it; it had been meticulously serviced while in use, but hadn't been really run (twice a year start-ups only) for about 13 years. Ran great, used it for about a year, and decided I really needed to fully service it: change all filters, fluids, etc. The tractor worked hard and deserved it, and I fully intend(ed) to continue the strict maintenance regimen. Sooo, I got it all done, primed up the fuel injection, and it wouldn't start...it tried but wouldn't go. Then I grabbed a can of ....yes I did....ether, and gave it a squirt while turning it over. (no, I didn't do it while NOT cranking, I've seen what that does) and it started right up, and was blowing a little smoke. Not bad, no more than it would every now and then anyway. I let it warm up, and noticed oil BLOWING (not dripping) out of the crankcase ventilator tube. I immediately thought: OMYGODWRONGOILFILTER, (had to cross reference it, maybe it was wrong) and put the old filter on. Same thing continued. Turns out it blows about a quart every 20 minutes, so the oil volume question becomes moot, and I use CAT oils. The tractor really doesn't care as long as I put oil in it. But, it really bugs me. It only blows once it warms up. No fluid exchange in any system at all. The original owner came out to look at it, and his first thought was that it starts to easy to be rings, but he THINKS he feels a miss, and his guess was a head gasket around the #2 cylinder (why #2, I can't figure that one out...). I tried loosening the oil filler caps, checked valve lash; now I get to do a cold and then hopefully warm compression check. Then I get to take it all apart. I guess I just keep hoping for someone to say: just flip that doohickey over and it'll stop all that. I am extremely thankful for your comments, it helps to hear that my thought processes are at least in the ballpark.
Lessons for others (and myself), (10 commandments):
1. ether is the devil
2. ether is satan
3. using ether is a sin
4. high compression and ether are a bad bad combination, even if your grandaddy still uses a can a day on his old Massey-Ferg.
5. Make sure the fuel injector pump is on a cam lobe BEFORE you prime your injectors.
6. Check all cross-referenced filters with the guys in Tarlboro.
7. Check your oil level everyday. (emphasize the period)
8. Always a good idea to have someone check what you are doing, especially when you are doing it for the first time.
9. Diesel smoke ALWAYS means something, it may mean it's ok, but always notice a change.
10. Ether, did I mention ether is bad?

Thanks, Phil Chief, that last part of self-recrimination wasn't for you, but anyone else that reads this, Thanks again.






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 09-18-2003, 08:17 Post: 64235
Chief



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 Long 610 oil blow by

How far have you gotten the engine torn down? Hopefully it is broken rings on the bad cylinder. The other cause and I hate to say it is a blown piston (hole in crown). Are you going to try pull the engine apart with the block still in the tractor frame? You make be able to do this and re-establish a nice cross hatch pattern with a drill and honing bit/brush. If all else is OK; rings, bearings, and seals should have you on your way provided the cylinder head and deck are true. I am not sure if this engine has cylinder sleeves like the John Deeres do, but that would be nice! Hey man, sorry for your misfortune. Hope you can get it up and running on the cheap. Buy the way, if and ONLY if you feel the engine needs a little helping hand to get started and this should RARELY be the case......... think WD-40 instead of either. My Dad uses ether to start an old Case tractor he has and it will not start without it now; even on the hottest day of the year. I worked on the cold start aid for him and got it working (on this tractor it is a heating element that vaporizes the fuel into the intact track) but he had been using ether for so long that it just barely would start using the cold weather start assist. The WD-40 is not an ideal solution but is much better than ether but you have to remove the air filter to use it effectively.






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 09-23-2003, 08:51 Post: 64632
pyarbro



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Chief, latest update:

Compression check showed a 100lb drop in #3 cylinder. All cylinders are about 100 lbs BELOW spec. Went ahead and began teardown on the tractor. Head gasket looked good, #3 cylinder head was crusty as heck (as was injector). Cylinder walls are smooth as glass without even a ridge at the top. I'm taking the head by a machine shop to get "eval'd" for a crack; if that is good, I'm going to reassemble with a new head gasket and recheck compression. Also am going to use a different compression guage adapter (for the fuel injector cylinders) and see if that makes a difference in my numbers. All pistons look pristine except #3 and it's crusty. No holes, cracks, nothing. I really think I've got a cracked head ($545.52 from Long) or its just a problem in the head gasket I can't see ($80.75 for valve grind gasket set). We'll see. Thanks, Phil






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 09-23-2003, 09:21 Post: 64635
Chief



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I am thinking along the same lines but the #3 cylinder acts like oil is getting into it somehow. I am hoping that it may have been a bad head gasket all along and you just did not notice it because it was a small leak. The ether may have done it in the rest of the way. Sure hope it is nothing more than a head gasket. Make sure you check the head and the block deck for being true and straight. If it is not, you will end up doing the job again. Good luck!






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