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 06-19-2004, 21:52 Post: 88914
plots1

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 working feilds with hydro trans

Is there anyone working feilds (plowing and disking)with a hydro trans. was wondering how it does. read some old post stating it is sort of a strain on them. Was going to be trading my 790 in on a 5105 for more power for workin my plots and to dabble with some hay work, but after getting some real life figures, WELL...... lets say I'm going to be steppin back into the 4000 series.Found a fair deal on a 100 hour used 4710 with ehydro and 460 loader, was told it should handle bales if ballast was right and I wasn't trying to set any speed records, but was concerned about how the trans would hold up to my feild work. It also has R4;s (probley not the best tire for field work) but figure I can get some R1's soon.






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 06-21-2004, 06:23 Post: 89002
hardwood

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 working feilds with hydro trans

plots1; I haven't operated hydro tractors since the late 60's when International Harvester brought out the 656 Hydro. It was a neat tractor for a hay baler or other applicatins wher a more precise speed of travel while using PTO machine. We had both a gear drive 656,(I still have this one)and a 656 Hydro. The gear drive would out work the hydro by quite a lot. We did'nt talk much about fuel efeciency back then, gas was 35 cents. I'm sure todays hydros much improved over the ones back then, but you're still going to give up some fuel as waste heat produced by the hydro unit. So far as them being rugged enough to handle tractive work just be sure you use the low range of your gear transmisson behind the hydro unit to givee your hydro the ability to spin at a higher RPM, pulling a hydro tractor in high range really stresses them. Most hydro units have a high pressure relief system to protect them from momentary high pressure spikes. Some relief valves sound like a snake hissing and some sound like a shotgun going off, but both do the same thing. If your pulling the tractor continously with the relief valve kicking in you're stressing it bad, but long as you're not working it above that level you won't hurt it. Hope this helps. Frank.






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 06-21-2004, 06:33 Post: 89003
TomG

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 working feilds with hydro trans

About the only issue I can recall is possible overheating the oil doing heavy draft work on very hot days. If that the case then just going slower should cure the problem.

I think people use HST's for fieldwork all the time without problems. GST might have some advantage for large ag operations where a tractor is going to spend entire days in the field but HST's should get even commercial operations done OK. About the only thing HST won't do is hold specific ground speeds for some pto driven seeding and spreading work.






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 06-21-2004, 07:30 Post: 89004
Art White



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 working feilds with hydro trans

We have farmers that still use many of the old IH design two range hydro's for some tillage work. For going out day after day in the spring and working the fields for 10 and 12 hours and being about 40 years old I think that is pretty good. I don't find them to be any hotter as some insist than the newer gear drives with the higher pump capacities being used. For tillage work you will be like using one gear drive tractor size smaller do to the loss of the direct drive. On hydro's like what Hardwood described you would find the hydro version at 65 PTO horsepower able to do the same pto work and keep up with a 90 PTO horsepower gear drive.






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 06-21-2004, 07:47 Post: 89007
StephenR



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 working feilds with hydro trans

On hydro's like what Hardwood described you would find the hydro version at 65 PTO horsepower able to do the same pto work and keep up with a 90 PTO horsepower gear drive.

Art, I was under the impression the opposite was true, especially with the newer hydros. Did IH have a different design?






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 06-21-2004, 07:57 Post: 89009
Murf



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 working feilds with hydro trans

Plots, I haven't done any 'field work' with my L4310HSTC yet, I did however help a nieghbor with some loaded hay wagons when his pickup died. I certainly didn't break any speed limits between rented fields and his farm, but I was mpressed at it's ability to start a full wagon in high range (I just had to try), but in midlle range it wasn't straining at all.

I did spend some time this spring trying to massage about 6 miles of 'goat path' into my cottage back into shape, I put about 25 hours on it pulling a heavy duty 84" Rhino box blade. Again it didn't seem to be straining, when ythe load got too much the tires just broke free and spun. I did notice though that I wasn't able to run as fast as I used to on my previous GST-equipped machine pulling the same blade on the same 'road'.

Best of luck.






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 06-21-2004, 10:48 Post: 89040
plots1

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 working feilds with hydro trans

Thank's guy's , sounds like it should be alright. I'm not dead set on this machine yet, But I'm going to getting something more powerful for sure.At least something I can move bales with.And the 4710 seems to be ( from what I'm told )about the smallest unit to do that with.And I still want to be able to maintain food plots without cooking the machine.






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 06-21-2004, 11:01 Post: 89041
TimB



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 working feilds with hydro trans

For another .02 - You're getting into some questions I've been fighting...

1) You should be able to get a 5105 for less than a hydro 4710 with *equal hours*, but if you think you might want to use a tiller with (or instead of) a plow - a 5105 is too fast in low.
2) When I described my intended duties for a 4710 (to include plow/cultivator tillage work) my dealer immediately told me not to get a hydro - I would "burn it up" (his words).
3) Same dealer said that they see basically only the hydros coming in for repair from folks that really push their small tractors (landscape/construction types) while the reversers just keep running.
4) Same story you got on limited baling, possible but not wonderful.

There's a lot of difference between 'field work' which could mean anything and true 'draft work" ala plowing. An equal-sized hydro will not have the draft power due to losses basic to the system - and will heat up at normal working speeds. Going slower with a plow may not work - plows are designed to work at a certain pace to function correctly. But that is very specific duty - other jobs will have different stories.

Also note that for most effective plowing you should have draft control on your 3 point hitch. Rare in compacts - and possibly discontinued on the new Deere 20 series large frame compacts. (It was optional on the 4710). The 5105, like most larger ag utilities, now comes standard with draft control.

Tim






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 06-21-2004, 14:23 Post: 89055
Art White



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 working feilds with hydro trans

A hydro on pto work has and always will be able to out work a gear tractor. Pulling dead weight take about a 15 to 20 percent loss. Hydro's don't spin off the tires so there is extra wear life there to be an advantage. The major tractor companies are are all coming out with varients of the hydro with horsepower in the 100 and above catagory, many of them at or about 12 ranges with hydro to fine tune the speed.






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 06-21-2004, 19:48 Post: 89085
hardwood

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 working feilds with hydro trans

StephenR; The basic design of a hydro unit is still the same today as it was in the old Farmalls. A variable displacement radial pump powered direct from the flywheel pushes fluid into a fixed displacement radial motor. the way the flow rate is changed in the pump is by changing the angle of what is known as the swash plate. the ends of the pistons in the pump ride aganst the variable angle swash plate that is controled by your foot on the hydro pedal.
When the angle of the swash plate is 90 degrees from the axis of the pump the pistons do not move in the bore so no fluid is pumped, you're in neutral. As you push the pedal the angle of the plate increases allowing the pistons to take a longer strokes thus increasing the displacement of the pump pushing more and more fluid into the hydro motor making the fixed dispacemrnt motor spin faster, as the hydro motor spins faster thus the tractor goes faster, for reverse the plate simply angles the other direction. The Fend Co. I think from Italy started producing big farm tractors several years ago with infinitely variable speed transmissons that aren't totaly hydrostacic. In the latest 7000 series Deere now offers an IVT. This system does have a true mechanical connection, but hydro motors are used in it to control the speed of the planataries.I've studied the Deere tech manual and do understand how it works but I won't get into all that right now. In theory it really is a pretty simple system that takes a lot of the ineffeciencys of a true hydro drive out of the picture. Frank.






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