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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

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 08-15-2002, 11:12 Post: 41282
DRankin



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 Question for Deere owners and dealers

The factory literature says the 4100 is not compatible with any backhoe. I am guessing that one of the problems might be the cast iron, cast in place, center link mounted on the transmission may not be strong enough. Are there other problems? Have any of you put a backhoe on a 4100?






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 08-15-2002, 13:17 Post: 41287
MRETHICS
2002-08-15 00:00:00
Post: 41287
 Question for Deere owners and dealers

Mark,

The problem lies with in the strength of the trans housing in general.

John Deere, and even shortline MFG's, are concerned with breaking the tractor in half.

So is the story I have been told by the "powers that be"

What I do not understand is why no one has made a smaller, genteler backhoe. Maybe they do, and I just don't know about it.

But, as I have said before, there is so much info on this forum. And It's usually good info, it would not surprise me one bit, that there will be a link posted here directing us to one withins 48 hrs.

sit back and enjoy the ride.






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 08-17-2002, 08:51 Post: 41338
MRETICS
2002-08-17 00:00:00
Post: 41338
 Question for Deere owners and dealers

OK........it's been 48 hrs. and no answer yet, guess maybe there isn't a mfg company that makes a backhoe for a 4100.

Or are all you guys mocking me??

C'mon....this ain't funny guys!!!






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 08-19-2002, 15:56 Post: 41384
Mark L
2002-08-19 00:00:00
Post: 41384
 Question for Deere owners and dealers

Well - This is probably going to just frustrate you guys even more but there is a manufacturer of backhoes that does claim to fit the 4100. The only small problem is that they're here in the UK. However if a small little collection of compat tractor owners like us produce enough demand there MUST be at least one company your side of the pond.






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 08-19-2002, 19:26 Post: 41391
Jim on Timberridge



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 Question for Deere owners and dealers

it was a hugh frustration for me when i couldn't find a backhoe for my trusty LX-178, too.






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 08-20-2002, 00:53 Post: 41400
DRankin



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 Question for Deere owners and dealers

Well, I have thrown in the towel.
When I bought the 4100, 15 months ago, it seemed the most reasonable compromise for my needs. My assessment at the time was that if I had an occasional need for a backhoe I could rent one a couple of miles away.
Two things changed that assessment.
First was the dawning realization that I had literally dozens of mature tree and juniper bush roots to remove and hundreds of feet of water lines to install.
And the second was the introduction of tractor/loader/backhoe combination by Kubota, at a price under $20K…… way under!
In some areas it is under $15K!!
I paid $14.7K for the 4100, with a box blade and a post hole digger and everyone thought I got a great deal, and I agree I did.
But almost the same price for a tractor/loader/backhoe?
Watch me switch colors!
If I could find a B/H with a sub frame that would not tear up the classic cast iron construction of my integral frame/drive train tractor, it would cost at least $7K. That makes the total investment almost $22K.
Instead, I will try to sell my, still under warranty, 70 hours on the clock, tractor/loader for about $12.9K and keep the differential to about $3700.
Not a bad price for a backhoe and I get to have it attached to a brand new tractor!
Yeah, Yeah.
I know.
It’s got little wheels.
So what?
I live on a flipping sand dune.
And I feel no need to take it into the redwoods and go logging.
Check the stats. It puts more rubber on the road than anything in its weight class. And speaking of weight, Kubota added 250# of steel to the BX2200 to create the BX22, and make it strong enough to handle a backhoe.
It’s built on a ladder frame, unlike the traditional construction of the compact Deere’s.
The BX22, without any attachments, weighs the same as the 4100 in the same condition. And it outweighs its taller (and less stable) stable mates, the B7400, B7500 and the B2410, and makes more horses than the first two.
I see it as a marvelous compromise.
It will not be as comfy as a T/L/BH twice the price, but it sure beats the hell out of crawling around on my hands and knees hacking at a bunch of decades old roots with a garden trowel and a hand axe!
TTFN, Mark.






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 08-20-2002, 06:58 Post: 41409
TomG

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 Question for Deere owners and dealers

Mark: You might think of what the 4100 does well for you that a larger one may not do so well. I'm not sure that a compact of any size would be ideal for taking out 100's of stumps--backhoe or not.

I've got this attitude that there always are going to be jobs too big and too small for any single tractor. I'm a little happier if I keep in mind what my tractor does rather than what it doesn't do, and I know that there are always going to be contractors and small engines in my life. I know that attitude isn't help much if you thought of the 4100 with a hoe and now find that it isn't going to work.

Maybe the 4100 really doesn't do any of your jobs that great for you and it's always going to be an undersized thorn in the foot or elsewhere. However, a dozer guy really could make short work of the stumps and save a lot of wear and tear on any compact. If the trees are a one-time project, the 4100 might be pretty good for the on-going work you have.

Does a 4100 have cast iron or cast aluminum cases? In terms of strength, stress on the tractor could be reduced by turning down the relief valve pressure in a hoe valve and by limiting the hoe's reach when digging. Stress on the cases probably could be managed, although such a hoe may not dig well even with a narrow bucket. It might work, but I don't imagine that JD would ever endorse such an approach for warranty coverage. Even if something like that did work, I don’t know what the capacity if a 4100’s hydraulic pump is. If the frame was strong enough, the hoe’s speed may be less than desirable.






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 08-20-2002, 08:33 Post: 41414
MRETHICS
2002-08-20 00:00:00
Post: 41414
 Question for Deere owners and dealers

Hmmmmmm.

It seems as someone is suffering from an affliction of back hoe fever.

He does raise some valid points. But then again, so does the infinately wise TomG ( a great assett to this board from the great white north).

I will give my prospective. And I will try to be as objective as I can. ( I sell green stuff)

I had the opportunity to test the T/L/B in question along with a couple others of different colors. In my humble opinion, they were all just too small to be as effective as I expected. Now hold on here!!!!! I said "all" of them, thus proveing my self acclaimed objectivity.

I've been around equipmentmy entire life, and have many hours on the seat(one girlfriend described this all as the typical male/seat/steeringwheel syndrome, I concluded she was right and she is no longer a girlfriend, call me stupid, I married her) I have learned a few things.(Not about women, she is still a mystery).

The best way to put in water lines is a trencher....less damage....faster. Unless you live in a particulalrly stoney location.(Most Flippen sand dunes are not full of rocks, I grew up a few miles from Flippen, therefore, I am somewhat familier with soil types and sub-strata from that area)

None of the models that I tested, in that class, impressed me, and I could definately see someone buying one, and being disapointed in it's performance.

However, I have spent alot of time on 300 and 400 series deeres, Case 580's, and other large T/L/B's, maybe I expect too much. I will add that the 47 and 48 Deeres, and other brands of that size, to me, performed well enough that I could sell one with confidence.



No matter what or when I buy, It is only a short time before I hear of a better deal, or a better model. Such is life I guess.






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 08-20-2002, 09:06 Post: 41416
NonMember
2002-08-20 00:00:00
Post: 41416
 Question for Deere owners and dealers

When I was picking up my 4110 the Dealer in Connecticut was installing a B.H. on a 4115. Yhr B.H. was manufactured in Canada. They were having some problems with the install and had to fabricate some brackets. Can't remember the name of the Canadian manufacturer.






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 08-20-2002, 10:44 Post: 41421
DRankin



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 Question for Deere owners and dealers

Marks view of the world, as seen through the great tractor lens:
Aside from the B/H issue, the 4100, TC18, TC21, BX22, BX1800, BX2200, B7400, B7500, B2410, B2710, B2910 and a whole bunch of others, are all pretty much the same tractor. All weigh in between 1300 and 1750 lbs. All have 16 to 30 horsepower, and in the real world they all will lift a bucket full of wet dirt on one end and pull a respectable box scraper on the other. Nobody in their right mind is going to buy one of these under 2000 pound, marvelous machines to cut and bail 100 acres of hay, plow the back 40 every spring or do the excavation chores for a commercial construction company.
So what are they good for? In my mind they are motorized shovels, wheelbarrows, rakes and lawn mowers. (Yes, I come from a time and place when a motorized lawnmower was considered a luxury.) And they are directed at folks like most of us on this CTB, ageing baby boomers with large residential lots that require a good deal of maintenence, and maybe some light construction.
These machines will never compare to a full sized ag tractor or a 15,000 pound Case backhoe, and those two machines cannot compare to one another, because they are designed to do different jobs.
The rental yard down the road will rent all kinds of specialized, heavy-duty stuff for $200 to $300 per day. My tractor payment is $249 a month. So if I get a days work out of the thing once a month I am ahead of the game. If it takes a half-day to dig around a tree root enough to cut it loose that’s ok. A bigger, more powerful machine could get it done in an hour, and a 52 year old guy with a lot of bar fights under his belt could do it in two or three days with a shovel and an axe, and then spend another two or three days taking aspirin.
Tom. The whole rear end of the 4100 is constructed of cast components. It has a single place to attach the center link for the TPH. That lone place is a pair of ears cast into the axle housing. Deere will no longer even recommend the use of a posthole digger with this arraignment, although it appears to me to be strong enough for that usage, given a modicum of care. The shock loads from a TPH mounted hoe would most likely bust off one of the ears and maybe crack or break the axle housing.
In summary, I currently have a 1500-pound, 20 HP ‘estate’ tractor. I am going to end up with a 1500 pound, 22 HP ‘estate’ tractor with a light duty backhoe. And at $4k or less, my out of pocket cost will be less than the price of any backhoe on the market.
Anybody wanna buy a tractor?






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

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