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 07-29-2007, 13:28 Post: 144153
kangaroo31

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 Tractor implements for starting up

Some friends suggest no-till method for vegetable growing.
My situation is buying a 40HP 4wd tractor with (or can install in the feature) a creeper tranny in 2-3 weeks. Land is 16 arce black dirt. The basic implements are need to start by friends suggesting and researching so far are:

1. 2 bottoms Moldboard plow
2. 6' Extr-heavy 3pt disk harrow (with a roller behined)
3. 6' field cultivator
4. 3pt 500lb spreader pto
5. 2 rows plant Jr seeder

any important implement I missed? Still can not sue disk can do the same result for seed bed as tiller. After disk I think should remain lots of weed or old crop roots in the dirt. I don't think the bed can ready for small seed seeding. Can the disks chopping all the weed or old crop roots into tiny pieces?
Need help, thanks,






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 07-29-2007, 14:28 Post: 144158
candoarms



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Kangaroo,

A disc, depending on the shape of the individual discs, is designed to push any remaining plant material into the ground, and then cover over it.

The idea here is to expose the remaining plant material to moisture and bacteria, which greatly aids in the decomposition process.

If you use a disc in the Fall of the year, after harvest, there will be nothing left of the corn stalks, or even Sunflower stalks, the following Spring. Once covered with soil the plant material decomposes quickly.

Tillers have a hard time dealing with the remaining vegetation, as everything wraps up in the tines and around the center shaft. This can be a real mess, and it's all but impossible to clear.

Nothing gets wrapped up in a disc. Even the most stubborn vines and long corn stalks will just disappear into the soil.

There are two types of discs. Most have a set of notched discs on the front, and pure round discs in the rear.

The notched discs help a lot when running over corn stalks, or other tough plant material. (sunflower stalks) Rather than just pushing the corn stalk aside, the notched disc will grab the stalks and then push them into the soil, often chopping them up as it goes over. The smooth discs in the rear then cover the plant material with an even amount of soil.

I'm not sure about using "No Till" techniques when raising vegetables. It seems to me that you might have a lot of trouble keeping the insect pests at bay, unless you turn the soil, or at least rotate your crops each year.

You might get along fine without a disc, but it is a very useful implement, and it does a great job with a minimum amount of time, fuel, etc.

Joel






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 07-29-2007, 16:52 Post: 144163
kangaroo31

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Joel, it is the best description of disk can be found on internet.^^ Thanks a lot. But I found new one all discs are notched discs. May be need run a bedmaker after that for small seed like celery. Like http://www.marketfarm.com/cfms/lesche_bed_shaper.cfm

Joel, how can the field cultivor contorl the weeds,those S tines looks don't have that function. So Sad






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 07-30-2007, 09:04 Post: 144176
kthompson



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kangroo, there are two types cultivators, one that is used to loosen the dirt and level it before planting and then those used to cultivate the crop and help control weeds. Those used to control weeds in a crop will be adjustable in spacing for you to adjust to your row and crop width.

As Joel has pointed out on the disk if you cut up the old crop well it rots normally rather quickly. It time is an issue disk it every couple of weeks or so and even burn off the old crop it need be (before you disk it). Most vegtable crops rot quickly if buried and help enrich the soil.

If you don't use a disk, then a rough cut mower is good to cut the trash up.

I am not a no till person, give me very tilled garden. I have found if you bed the dirt for a few days before you want to plant it and right before you plant it run your bedding plow back through it with a "middle buster" in front of the bedding plows it makes for a much better bed and weed control. Roots like loose dirt. Especially if you are planting a "root crop".

Do not plant on beds so high you are not able to cultivate the crop at least once or twice after it comes up. (tractor clearance)

If this is all new to you, find where the local farmers sit and talk. Pull up a seat and listen. You will find one or two who will be glad to share local insight and boy a garden is local.

Also check out chemical weed control if you are planting a large garden. BTW, just how much of your 16 acres will be garden? You might also want a tractor mounted sprayer depending on the size of the garden and what you will be planting. If buying a sprayer be sure of what you will be spraying (crop wise) for if such as corn you will need one with a boom you can raise. Another tip for garden, if you will be hand harvesting the crop, skip a row every 4 or so you can drive through the garden to haul the crop out, unless you have very short rows. Vegtables have lost of moisture which means lost of weight.






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 07-30-2007, 09:21 Post: 144177
kthompson



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The first and possibly hardest thing to do is decide what you will be planting. Then work your equipment backwards from there. Especially planters. All planters do not plant all seeds. The next thing to decide is how you will harvest the crop. If by hand that is easy but if by machine (such as hired out) then you must set your crop (such as row width) to match the machine that will harvest it.






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 07-30-2007, 11:43 Post: 144182
kangaroo31

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kthompson, thank, looks have to use Flex-tine weeders.The whole area is a major place for onion growing. I will ask some small scale farm owners.
If I can use disk instead of tiller, it becomes no necessary to buy a high PTO hp tractor. becuase no big implements need it. Sounds a L3400 kubota with 24" ag tire plus a QA FEL can deal all the needs.Am I right?






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 07-30-2007, 13:12 Post: 144183
candoarms



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Kangaroo31,

A relatively small tractor will handle all of your planting and harvest chores. The Ford 8N tractor was designed to handle the same tasks you're currently involved with.

The old Ford 8N was designed to handle a piece of land about the size of yours. In fact, you could get by with an old Ford 8N, if you really wanted to.

Your first task is to break up the soil. This is going to require some work, and it involves plowing, cultivating, etc. 4-wheel drive will help you accomplish this task in short order.

How much time do you have to spend breaking up and preparing the soil for a crop? This will be the biggest factor in determining which tractor to go with.

Personally, I would go with a slightly larger tractor in the 40-50hp range. You'll be surprised at how much land you can cover in one day with a tractor of this size. You'll be able to break up 16 acres in a just a few days, using a two or three bottom plow. All of your other tasks will go MUCH faster, as plowing is the most time-consuming job you'll ever be involved with.

Plowing is one of those jobs that goes SLOW.....due to the small amount of land you're able to cover with each pass around the field. It will require many hours each day, and several days on the tractor to get this job done. But, once done, it won't be necessary to do it again for several years.

Joel






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 07-30-2007, 13:58 Post: 144185
kthompson



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cadoarms,
"But, once done, it won't be necessary to do it again for several years"

Are you talking about with the moldboard plow?

I agree the 8N probably might be HP enough but boy are the newer ones easier and safer to use. To me, no comparision. With the improvement in brakes, lift and safety of the overrunning PTO and such not counting the steering (assuming you get power on new tractor) along with the 6 volt electric on the 8N compared to the 12 volt, I just think for other than the HP you would be greatly disappointed. Oh, don't bring up the carbs on those gas engines either.

kangroo, if you want a moldboard plow be sure to shop used for that plow. Replacement parts are costly but the plows are cheap in parts of the country in the size you want. I do not know the planters you are talking about, do they make their own bed? Or do they need a bed made for them? Here, I would not plant vegetables on flat ground, ony on a bed so when it rains they do not drown so easy. Do not buy any used equipment until you find out replacement parts are easy to find.






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 07-30-2007, 14:05 Post: 144187
kangaroo31

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Thanks,Joel. Looks I don't need buy a bush hog. if I use Disk chop 1x, then bottom plow, then again disk 1-2x time should get rid of most of weeds for this year (2 acres only), right?






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 07-30-2007, 14:17 Post: 144188
kthompson



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kangroo31,
it is a big if, but if the weed seeds there are like they are here, when you disk you kill the growing weeds but turn up a new crop of weed seeds. If disking is your only weed plan, here you would have one fine crop of weeds and wonder where what you planted went. Disking does a good job of cutting up the trash, cover it to rot, killing growing weeds but it will not get ride of next month's weeds. Here you will need either or both chemicals or on going cultivating to get ride or or control the weeds.

If you are growing a single crop it is easier to use chemical weed control. If you are growing a variety of crops near each other chemical weed control may be difficult to impossible.






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