Go BottomLow Sulphur Diesel Fuel
 | Woodie
Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 109 Michigan lower 
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2006-10-17 136014
I'm getting a bit perplexed--Just saw the following tag on the fuel pump at the station (diesel pump)" Low Sulphur Highway Diesel Fuel, (500ppm sulphur max), Warning, Federal Law prohibits use in model year 2007 and later highway vechicles and engines. Its use may damage these vechicles and engines" .
Okay I get the idea lower sulphur fuel is coming and higher sulpher may cause problems to the 'new' engines. But what will happen to us with older engines that run on the higher sulphur diet. Will our engines run with the low and ultra-low sulphur fuels or will we have to buy extra (expensive) additives? any help direction would be apprciated. I can count on a number of great guys and gals out there that will have an opinion or two with some hard info. thks
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada 
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2006-10-18 136024
Woodie, fear not, there are both exmptions and additives to fit the bill, while still helping to clean up the air.
There are presently, depending on where you are, three grades of diesel allowed for Highway Diesel, they are Low Sulphur Diesel (LSD, <500ppm sulphur), 2007 EPA ULSD (2007 EPA standard Ultra Low Sulphur diesel, <15ppm sulhur) and finally, 2007 EPA exempt ULSD (<22ppm sulphur. This last category will not last long, it is a phase in grace period to allow for the change-over to happen with the odd ooopsy thrown in.
The problem is if you use the 'old' fuel (LSD in a 2007 EPA compliant vehicle, it will clog the filters or particulate traps in the exhaust, sort of like the problems they had with early catalytics in cars choking up on leaded gasoline.
The oil companies though have been adding additives, as so can you, to the 'new' diesel to provide the lubricating qualities that the sulphur used to provide.
Basically speaking, use Power Service or any good additive and you and your engine will be just fine.
Best of luck. ....
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| unit5alive
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 250 Latrobe Pa
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2006-10-19 136062
Murf , if the LSD is 500ppm sulphur max ,what is the ppm sulphur rating for the off road red diesel ? , Craig. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2006-10-19 136068
Coloured or Off-road diesel is very rich in sulphur, in fact it is allowed to be as high as 5,000ppm, which is so hiugh that it's almost easier to describe it as a percentage of the fuel, that would be 0.5% of the fuel is suplhur!!
Now, most refiners don't ship fuel that rich in sulphur except by special request or in a pinch during times when they are running flat out to produce enough fuel, like following Katrina, when they skip the extra time involved in recovering some of it.
Sulphur is actually worth enough money, and they can so easily remove a large percentage of it, around 3,000ppm that they often do it just to have the sulphur as a value-added product for them to sell or use in other products besides the fuel itself.
Best of luck. ....
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| unit5alive
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 250 Latrobe Pa
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2006-10-19 136100
Thanks Murf , Craig. ....
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| astonman
Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1 Louisiana
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2007-03-25 140718
This is a follow-up on the low sulfur/off road diesel fuel discussion. This week my Farmtrac 45, upon cranking revved right up to over 2000 rpm and would not respond to the throttle or kill knob. I pushed on a tree to get the rpm down to 500 or so where the kill knob shut the engine off. Later, the engine would not crank at all.
I made contact with the best diesel mechanic in my area who professed to be familiar with the problem. He described a rod inside the injector pump that in the first instance had stuck open and in the next stuck closed. He told me to drain the fuel tank of off-road diesel (and to never use same again), re-fill with regular fuel, which is now ultra low sulfur, add transmission fluid in the ratio of 40 to 1, tap on the injector pump housing, and crank her up.
It worked and the machine started running fine.
The tractor had sat unused for a couple of months, which apparently caused the problem to manifest itself. Anyway the tractor is under warranty until September of this year.
....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2007-03-25 140730
To my knowledge the only difference is the red dye in off road. Ask you fuel supplier. Frank. ....
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 | greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky 
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2007-03-26 140742
Aston - if that guy offered me that advice, I'd go looking for the NEXT best diesel mechanic in the area. Sounds to me like your guy's been in the game too long. There was someone here a few years back who started a big flap when asking about his VW mechanic giving the same advice; ATF in diesel fuel. I akin that to putting STP in an oil burning engine; a bandaid where stitches are required.
Unless your fuel filter is in bypass somehow, I'm more inclined to believe your issue was from deposits breaking free inside the pump itself. Deposits accumulate during periods of inactivity; condensation + pump oil + fuel + time = crud.
Off road diesel - with or without dye - is generally still 500ppm sulphur or more, and will continue to be refined until 2011. Although I suppose it's possible that some local distributors may actually sell red-dyed ULSD. I just hope they tell customers what they're pumping into their pre-2007 tanks. The EPA mandates ULSD only for ON ROAD engines built after 1-1-2007.
Nevertheless, it's ok to use ULSD in your tractor, just forget the ATF part. Use something like Power Service diesel conditioner instead. They've trademarked an additive called Slick Diesel that is supposed to provide the lubricity lost in the ULSD refining process. I use in in both my tractors as well as my old Mercedes.
//greg// ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-03-26 140743
Greg and Frank are both on the mark.
Adding Transmission (ATF) fluid to diesel is an old "husbands tale" (mans version of a wives tale).
It will do something to your diesel alright, it will crud it up like no tomorrow. The only real difference between ATF and motor oil is that ATF has about a million times more additives and detergents than does motor oil.
When you run it through a diesel the logic was that the combination of the oil and the detergents, etc., would lube the pump and keep it and the injectors clean. WRONG. The 'extras' in it accumulate in certain areas and actually PLUG some of that stuff up. Besdides that, think of how smoky a 2 stroke can be on a 40:1 ratio, and it's DESIGNED to run that way, you want to do that to your engine?
ATF in diesel fuel is paramount to eating more greasy foods to lube up your arteries and prevent cholesterol from clogging them.
The problem you had with your tractor and the cause were that you had some debris or a build-up in the injector pump, this caused it to stick open, then stick shut. If you had merely drained the system, then filtered your fuel as you poured it back in, you would have accomplished the same thing.
Buy fuel from a reputable source, use a filtering funnel, ev en if only one with a very fine screen in the bottom, and use a good quality fuel additive, Power Service is top drawer stuff, there are others as good, and keep the machine fuel filter and the water seperator clean, and you will have no problems.
Best of luck. ....
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