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How much ballast is needed with a 7308 FEL

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Danny Yerks
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2003-05-08          54510


How much ballast is needed on the back of a TC29D with a 7308 FEL in order to use the loader at it's rated capacity? Do most of you have your rear tires filled with fluid or do you use the rear wheel weights (total of 300 lbs), or do you attach weight to the 3pt?

I read on another post (about the 14LA) that someone adjusted a valve on their 7308 and can now lift over a ton. That seems amazing to me. How much weight would have to be on the back of the tractor to do that? Isn't that too much stress on the frame of the tractor?


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How much ballast is needed with a 7308 FEL

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5113 Northern Nevada
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2003-05-08          54515


When I crunched the numbers recommended for another tractor brand (Deere) I came up with a rule of thumb.

Take the weight of the entire loader assembly plus the weight of the contents of the bucket and put that weight on the rear of the tractor as counter balance or ballast.

Figure about 100 pounds per cubic foot of bucket capacity.

The rear ballast can be any combination of wheel weights, fluid filled tires, ballast boxes or even bricks. But do not include the weight of the operator in these calculations.

You second question is the right question to ask. If you tweak the lift capacity it will in turn tweak the tractor. His FEL is basically designed to scoop up dirt and carry it around. If his bucket holds 6 cu ft it needs to be able to break 600 pounds out of a pile of dirt and carry it.

What or earth would he do with a loader assembly that can lift the weight of the entire tractor off the ground? What is he moving? Lead? At what point do the front tires pop like party balloons? Bearings and axle casings can only take so much stress.

I guess some people learned their physics from watching "The Six Million Dollar Man". I never did figure out how he pulled helicopters out of the air with his bionic arm. Must have had his foot nailed down. ....

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How much ballast is needed with a 7308 FEL

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4294 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-05-08          54516


I have a John Deere 4410 with the 430 Loader, MMM, & R-4 tires. I had the rear tires filled with anti-freeze solution; about 55 gallons per tire. That is what JD recommended and it seems to work well. Read the owner's manual on your loader and stay with in the weight limits specified. It is very dangerous to exceed those limits as well as the possibility of damage to the loader or frame occurring or damage to the front axle. ....

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How much ballast is needed with a 7308 FEL

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Danny Yerks
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2003-05-08          54519


"Take the weight of the entire loader assembly plus the weight of the contents of the bucket and put that weight on the rear of the tractor as counter balance or ballast."

Wow! According to the brochure, the 7308 weighs 839 lbs and is rated to lift 875 lbs. That's a total of 1714 lbs of weight to be added to the rear! Wheel weights are 300 lbs. I'm guessing fluid would be another 500 lbs. So, I'd still need to add another 900 lbs to the 3pt. Do you folks really put that much weight on you tractors? ....

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How much ballast is needed with a 7308 FEL

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5113 Northern Nevada
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2003-05-08          54520


I am assuming the specs for the 4410 are similar to the 4400 and I am reading straight from the manual.

The 4400 with a 420 loader has a MINIMUM ballast requirement of fluid filled tires AND 550 pounds on the 3-point. Or a full set of wheel weights and 770 pounds on the 3 point.

"Required Minimum Ballasting" are the exact words.

My 4100 weighs 1500 pounds stripped. The minimum required ballast for the 410 loader is 6 wheel weights (360#) plus 750# on the 3 point hitch.

That is 1110 pounds minimum required ballast on a 1500#
tractor.

These number roughly reflect the weight of the loader and the load in the bucket and again are stated as minimums. ....

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How much ballast is needed with a 7308 FEL

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5113 Northern Nevada
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2003-05-08          54521


Danny... use the cubic feet capacity of the bucket, not it's rated lift capacity. ....

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How much ballast is needed with a 7308 FEL

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drcjv.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 334 southeastern pa
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2003-05-08          54522


Danny, I am the guy who tweeked his loader and now it lifts over a ton. I have had many long discussions on this board about this and matters related to it.(safety, warranty ect..)I will not do that anymore. I will state some facts for you though. I have two wheel weights on each rear wheel, I also have the tires filled and use a ballast box that weighs 1000lbs. Total weight should be about 1700lbs. I have used this set up for nearly a year with no problems. I rarely if ever lift a ton when I did it was a test to see what it would lift after the valve was adjusted. Using the ballast makes loader work much easier and keeps the back tires on the ground. ....

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____________________________________________________________________________________
How much ballast is needed with a 7308 FEL

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4294 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-05-08          54524


Mark, the manual for the 430 and 460 manual differentiates wheel width of less than 59" and more than 59" for the 4410. My tractor wheel width is more than 59". Wow!!! After reviewing the chart again I can see that the dealer is full of "nutrient residue"! The chart calls for fluid filled tires and 1320 lbs. ballast weight on the 3 pt. hitch. Guess I am gonna have to look into that. The dealer told me that the fluid filled tires was all I needed. I glanced at the chart and I missed read it. Good eye! This is a good subject for the safety section.

By the way Mark, I think the 550 lbs. you referred to is actually Kilo's. I missed read the same thing at first too. ....

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How much ballast is needed with a 7308 FEL

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5113 Northern Nevada
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2003-05-08          54527


Yup, the doc has taken some heat on this topic, especially from the engineering types. After reading his latest post, I suspect what he uses the extra power to increase the break-out force rather than actual increased loader capacity.

But do note his ballast figures, I suspect they are right in line with what is safe for a normally configured loader on a larger compact tractor.

My normal "driving around" ballast on my 4100 is about 875#. That is on the tractor all the time. It consists of a 175# combo ballast tray/trailer hitch with 18 cinder blocks on it and 200 pounds of wheel weights.

That is enough for occasional random use of my loader, like scooping up the odd small pile of dirt or moving a couple bushels of rocks. If I am going to do a lot of loader work I add more bricks to get between 1000 and 1100 pounds total ballast.

My BX, which only has a 5 cubic foot loader, carries 100 pounds of wheel weights and almost 1000 pounds of extra steel on the rear end in the form of a permanently attached sub-frame and a removable backhoe.

One note of caution: some makes of tractors, like Kubota, ask you to choose wheel weights or fluid, but not both. ....

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How much ballast is needed with a 7308 FEL

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5113 Northern Nevada
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2003-05-08          54529


Chief, I have the manual for the 420 loader. It is no doubt lighter and smaller capacity compared to the 430 loader. ....

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How much ballast is needed with a 7308 FEL

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-05-10          54604


I don't carry anywhere near the weights discussed here on my Ford 1710 (similar to a TC29). My Allied 195 loader probably is smaller than a 7308, but just a 750-lbs. box scraper on the 3ph works for me. There are no weights or loaded tires.

I get a sense of the tractor balance when I lower a heavy bucket. There is a bounce, when I stop it and if the rear feels light then I figure I need more rear weight. My practices may be pushing the factory defined safety envelop a bit but I also take care to keep my ground speeds low, avoid hitting any bumps and stay off steep slopes etc, and that may well put me back in the safety envelope.

I can't recommend my practices for anybody else, but I'd rather not carry weight on the 3ph that's close to the lift capacity just to balance a loader if I can operate with relative safety by other means. A lot of weight is going to shorten expected frame/cases life somewhat and have a worse effect on clutches. Weight also reduces the power available to do other work.
....

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____________________________________________________________________________________
How much ballast is needed with a 7308 FEL

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5113 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-10          54613


It would seem that your 750# box scraper is more than most folks use. If you are operating on level ground that goes a long way toward adding a safety factor.

As an added note: the ballast question goes in both directions. I saw a picture in the Kubota literature of a BX22 backhoe being operated with a front blade (as opposed to a FEL) on the tractor, so I gave that a try.

All went well until I tried to climb up the 45 degree slope in the back of the house. It tipped over backward and came to rest on the hoe bucket. No matter what I tried it simply would not climb that slope. It had been up and down the same track a dozen times with the FEL attached.
I finally had to work my way out of the hole by going another direction.

The lesson for me was that you can hang too much off the rear end too and all must be in balance. Pay attention, grasshopper. ....

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How much ballast is needed with a 7308 FEL

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-05-11          54644


Mark: I can sure see that happening. I have about 45-degree slopes my drive fills across a highway ditch. I stored some fill on it that I later needed. I not only wanted the loader on but a full bucket of gravel in it when I was coming up the fills and had my box scraper on.

I get the same effect on level ground with big weight on my 3ph forklift. The first couple of times I realized OOPS I have virtually no steering and put a bunch of cement blocks in the loader. Now I just fill up the loader as a matter of habit. Actually I use the steering to judge if the ballast is right front or back. If I have to work to steer the tractor then I know I need more 3ph weight. However, heavy steering probably isn't a very good test for most people. My PS isn't near as strong as on most newer tractors and I don't have loaded rear tires. Weight in tires doesn't change the steering like weight on the 3ph.

I think this is a good discussion. A good idea that comes from it is that proper ballasting for a tractor depends on the particular job it's doing.
....

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