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Kevin Squires
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2001-06-29          29715


Does anyone know if there is such a thing as PTO irrigation pump? I need to water a few acres that DO NOT have access to electricity. I have a pond close by but need some way to get the water out of the pond and onto the grass seed (future pasture). I looked for gas powered pumps to rent and would like to look into a PTO driven pump. The pump needs to connect to a sprinkler head. Any ideas?

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Paul Fox
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2001-06-29          29719


Abso-tootly. I use one to irrigate my garden, from Ace pumps, set up for a 540 PTO. Works slicker than a smelt. Only problem I have is I need to filter the intake a little better, as the sprinkler heads tend to clog of with pond scum. Check 'em out at www.acepumps.com ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2001-06-30          29725


Northern Tool also carries a small PTO pump. ....


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Michigander
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2001-07-02          29762


I have been looking for a unit to water my 3 acre lawn. Most roller type pumps that I have seen, appear to be designed for a sprayer, not sprinkler heads. Maybe someone can verify how much area can be sprinkled using using one of these as I would be interested to know as well. I did find this website, they have a unit that comes with a pump, hoses,sprinkler head, and tripod for $1395. I haven't spoken to anyone that is using it so I can't testify how well it works. ....


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Paul Fox
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2001-07-02          29763


The unit I have is a centrifugal pump, rated (I think) at about 80 GPM. I have run about 250' of 1-1/2" black PVC, and run four racheting sprinkers in my garden. It seems to have plenty of reserve for that, but I don't know about three acres worth. Pressure would be more of an issue than volume, I should think. ....

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Michael
Join Date: Apr 2004
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2001-07-02          29771


Best explanation of sprinkler irrigation I've found is in "Sprinkler Irrigation Systems" ISBN 0-89373-077-7. It covers everything from pump power curves to small sprinkler systems to large travelling irrigation guns.

Some of the irrigation companies also have helpful information in their printed catalogs. Try Zimmerman Irrigation, 800-452-5699, www.trickl-eez.com; Schumacher Irrigation, 402-246-3685, www.schumacherirrigation.com; and DripWorks, 800-522-3747. ....

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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-02-18          35692


I found this site the other day, with hydraulic driven pumps for irrigation systems. Just another idea rather than a PTO pump. ....


Link:   Hydraulic water pumps

 
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Harry B.
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2002-03-02          36003


Unless you plan on pumping a lot of water, using a tractor PTO to drive the pump is not very efficient. A 5 HP pump can put out a lot of water using 1 1/2" PVC pipe. Lowes sells 1 1/2" PVC pipe for $38/100'. You can expect 20-25 gpm with 1 1/2" PVC before you see any sufficient pressure drop. Most sprinklers only put out 6 gpm. If you need a high pressure pump, the IPT pump carried by Northern Tool is hard to beat at 70 psi output. They also carry a two-stage pump made in Australia that has 125 psi output.
First you should calculate on paper the number of sprinklers that you plan to run, length of pipe and pressure drop, uphill pressure drop and the time required to cover the area with 1" of water. Then you will see the economics of your system plus save gas and maybe wear and tear on your tractor. ....

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Ravenn
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 11 Minnesota
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2002-08-06          41032


Paul, noticed your comment about needing to filter out the scum and algae better. You might take a look at this site. I see them used frequently here in N. Minnesota for pumping from lakes to irrigate. ....


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Paul Fox
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2002-08-07          41035


Cool! That's just what I've been looking for. Thanks for the link. Haven't had to water the garden yet this year, we've been luck with the rains, but August is a long month! ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-08-07          41039


Looks like an OK product. There may be some things to think about. The unit looks a bit like the wigglers (at least that's what I call them) on our township portable fire fighting pumps. The wigglers have course-screens and a foot valve. They're called wigglers because the pump is primed by submerging the wiggler and wiggling it back and forth until the suction fills with water. Trying to prime a pump by pouring water into a small port through a funnel isn't good in fire-fighting situations. A finer filter may have a large surface area and may contain quite a bit of water, which might complicate priming.

The suction line screens on the township pumps are only fine enough to stop anything large enough to damage or clog the pump. Use of a filter has potential of stopping the pump if it clogs, and that may not be a good idea for unattended operations. In fire fighting, you know quickly if a pump stops working and the pumps have safety devices.
....

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Paul Fox
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2002-08-07          41045


Good points. Being an "engineer" (read, Pumper Operator) for the local department, I'm familiar with the various hazards of drafting from ponds and streams. Your point about unattended operation is particularly well taken. With a PTO pump idling along at 540 RPM, it's a little less critical, but still needs to be watched. I'd suspect that by the time I noticed the sprinklers in the garden drooping and got down to the pump site, I'd have plenty of time to clear things up before any pump damage occurred.

Never seen the "wigglers", might have to look into that. Most of our pumps are self priming or exhaust primed, but we do have a couple of small portables that are still manually primed. Do you have a name brand or source for the wigglers?

On my PTO pump, I put a foot valve at the end of two sections of 2" PVC pipe for my suction line, and I can slosh it back and forth in the pond and fill the suction line, which is the same idea, I guess. After filling the suction line, it's fastened to the pump intake with a rubber boot and a hose clamp. Still have to fill the pump, but I put a quarter turn ball valve on the discharge side to facilitate that. Works pretty good for my little application. ....

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MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana
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2002-08-07          41048


My $0.02,

If you are planning on leaving your tractor un attended, you need to consider installing Murphy Switches (failsafe switches) one switch to monitor engine oil pressure, and another to monitor engine collant temp.

I have farmer customers who use larger tractors to run irigation pumps and these switches have saved many engines.

Just loseing a fan belt for only a few minutes and a overhaul is emminent. Without out the protection these swithes will give you, you would have to remain at the tractor while it is in operation to monitor the gauges.

If it were mine, I would also install a switch in the main sprinkler line , just in case your irrigation pump lost pressure, your tractor will shut down and no fuel is wasted.

I have enough expeirience with irrigation to know the pitfalls.

The "wiggler" is a must, but they have been known to plug.
Also, it takes 27152 gallons of water to put an inch of water on 1 acre.

Last, if you are drawing from a private pond, no problem. But, if you are pumping from a ditch, stream ,or river, check with the authorities. You may need a permit, or it may be completely prohibited. a homeowner near here was just fined $10000 for pumping from the river to water his lawn. Better safe than sorry.

....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-08-08          41067


Paul: The wiggler, apparently AKA a foot valve and strainer, at this site http://www.cascadefire.com/cgi-bin/cfcart/cart.cgi?partno=23951 isnít quite like the ones we have but itís the same idea. It might be interesting to nose around the cascade site to see what else is available even if fire fighting equipment is pretty expensive (right up there with tractor parts).

This site also has wildfire fighting equipment but it seems like they took their catalogue off-line http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/index1.asp The catalogue has all sorts of clothing and personal equipment for forestry workers, including fire fighting.

This site http://www.wildfire-equipment.com/WildfireMain.html carries Mark 3 pumps. I forget if we use Mark 2 or Mark 3 pumps, but they arenít exactly new and shiny. This site probably has suction line accessories as well but I couldnít get the list of accessories to work on their site.

The safety equipment on our Mark 3 pumps is a governor. The governor shuts the engine down if it over revs. It doesnít work like a tractor governor at all. The idea is that the engine speeds up if it looses its load. I wondered why it just didnít throttle back like a tractor. I figured out that when a pump looses its load something needs to be fixed, so the engine is shut down. Itís curious that the engine also revs when a hose is clamped to add another length but not enough to trip the governor. Youíd think that there would be more rather than less load when the hose is off, but I guess itís actually less work if no water is being moved.
....

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Paul Fox
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2002-08-08          41083


Great! Thanks for the links. ....

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WillieH
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 543 New England
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2003-06-10          57294


Kevin -
I have a Northern pump installed for irrigation pretty much as you described. However, what I did, rather than tieing up my tractor, I had an old Wheelhorse garden tractor,c.1968, with a 12hp kohler electric start on board. I fab'd a bracket off the nose of the tractor, with adjustability for belt wear and tensioning, and set the pump up for a belt drive off the mower PTO pulley.

Merely pop the belt off from the mower, and push on the belt for the pump. I put a two inch pump on this tractor, item number 10627-C178 from Northern Tool, for at the time $99.00. It carries nearly 8000GPH of water at 5000revs. I have so much water output for irrigating my lawns and gardens, I put a distribution manifold on and have sprinklers all over a two acre lot!

Willie H. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7154 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-06-11          57333


Tom, the motor speeds up when the hose is crimped because the pump is cavitating. The air entrainment causes the speed, but maintains a certain pressure, apparently enough to not cause the safty mechanism's to kick in.

The fire-fighting rig we set up for the cottage uses a similar system, the pressure controls the rpm's of the engine/pump combo (an old Ford 300 straight 6 hooked to a surplus irrigation pump). At 3,000 rpm the governor merely stops accelerating provided there is still pressure above 50 psi in the manifold, if not the engine cuts off totally.

Best of luck. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-06-12          57390


Yep, cavitation seems to be the explanation for many things. I still wonder though if it might be less work for the motor to work against cutoff pressure than moving high a volume of water through hose at lower pressure. Never the less, when the hose is clamped the pump is sure going to cavitate.

The safety switch on our Wajax pumps works off air pressure. High rpm trips a switch, and I know that loss of prime definitely trips it. I don't know if leaving a hose clamped for a long while would eventually trigger the switch, but our instructor did say not to leave them clamped for long. Our target for clamping, adding or removing a hose section and releasing is 15 seconds. If we're doing it right the pump doesn't get much time to do anything other than pump.
....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2004-12-15          102290


MICHIGANDER: From a fellow Michigander--I agree about pond scum. My customer was determined to use his two ponds I dug him to water his 6 acres. The ponds have small fish. He has a potable well, but it requires expensive peroxide to kill sulfer-producing bacteria. We used homeowner-type sprinkler heads and a centrifugal water well pump. I put the intake into a 5-gallon bucket about 6' down to keep from sucking pond mud. After about 5 minutes pressure dropped to zero. Cause: Insect parts, fish gills, and string-algae clogging the heads. Installing a good fliter system just didn't make sense let alone the daily maintenance to get rid of debris. Now he wants to drill a new well strictly for watering. ....

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