tractorpoint.com - The leader in Tractors from Compacts, to Utility, to Full Size Tractors! Kubota, John Deere, New Holland, Kioti, Case/IH, and Others. Keywords=Compact Tractor, Kubota Tractors,  Kioti Tractors, JD, John Deere Tractors, New Holland, Case Boomer, Used Tractors, Classifieds, Dealer Directory, Tractor Pictures / Images
  parts   |   discussion   |   photos   |   podcast   |   reviews   |   specs   |   dealers   |   classifieds   |   contact   |   faq   |   myProfile   |   home          Login Now | Sign Up

Forums > Active Threads > Home and Garden > Barns Pole Barns

Post Message Barns Pole Barns

 Go Bottom
____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2001-02-17          24305


As soon as the weather breaks here in N.Y., I will start preparing my 45'x70' barn site. The contractor suggests removing the sod and topsoil before adding the extensive fill needed. I was wondering if anyone here has had experience using a box scraper for this task. The sod consists of field grass and weeds that I mow a couple times a year. I thought the cost of hiring a dozer might pay for the scraper. My main concern is that the teeth will plug with sod be too time consuming. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
Anthony M. Parente
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-17          24316


I have a similar project. I am looking into small dirt pans as manufactured by Tri-Tech services and Buffalo Equipment. The dirt pan is a scraper & carrier combination which allows the rapid removal and transport of the soil to another location. These units are not cheap but are efficient for the removal of soil from a large area. For example, you could perform the same task using only a front loader, but it would take a long time.
Good Luck. ....


Link:   Tri-Tech services

 
Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
Craig Dashner
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-17          24318


I did that last fall for my little garage 24x32. I did it with my loader and a back blade. Was not that easy, but with patience and perserverence, I got it done. I was striping weeds and small brush off of clay. I probably spent 6-8 hours total doing it. I went down 2"-6", the 6" being where I had to level the base out and get the grade right to bring in 4" of sand to put below the slab. I wish I would have had a tiller, then it probably would have been pretty easy. Break up ground with tiller and push the dirt off with the backblade in reverse with the top arm extended to change the bite of the blade. Just have to go slow to keep the blade from digging too far down. That is pretty much how I did it anyway. Pushed till it was a good sized pile and then used the loader to move it out of the way and then back to pushing. Good luck! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
Dave M
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-17          24320


How deep is your top soil? Mine is about 12", so 45x70 would be about 116 cubic yards of dirt. My 6' box scraper holds less than 1/2 yard so that is a lot of trips. It would be very difficult to make a reasonable pile of this much material using only a box scraper. Of course, if your topsoil is not as deep then it will be less work.

Are you going to be able to handle the fill you say you need with your tractor?
I had a 50x120 site prepared and needed over 250 cubic yards of fill (clay, shale and gravel) taken from another spot on my property, and about 200 tons of crushed stone. A medium sized dozer, track loader, dump trucks and vibrating roller were used for handling the fill. It took less than an extra hour (at $50/hour) for the dozer to remove the topsoil and make a nice pile. This was not the cheapest approach I could think of but it got the work done quickly and well.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2001-02-17          24322


I don't have to move the material except just out of the way of the building activity for now. I will probably use the soil for fill and landscape around the barn once it is complete. I need something that would dig in maybe six inches and allow me to move the material away with my loader. Perhaps the dozer would be the way to go after all. My tractor will be sufficient to spread the gravel/sand fill mixture. Thanks for the ideas. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
Ray Dalton
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-17          24325


A box blade with scarifier teeth will work real well for what you want to do. I have re graded 1 1/2 acres with mine. All I did was kept going in a circular pattern droping the box where I wanted the earth cut down and then raising it and circled around for another pass, this built up a pile in no time flat. Then I just spread the pile with the loader and repeated the whole process of building another pile. It went pretty quick. Give it a shot before hiring out the work, what have you got to lose? ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1539 Moravia, NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2001-02-18          24330


Cutter sounds like a PROJECT. If you have a molboard plow that will do the best job for loosening up the soil. Plus it will be a consistent depth and only get the top soil. You should be able to push backward and push more. Use tire chains to limit the damage to your tires from slippage on the damp soil with sharp rocks. Have Fun! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Tractorpoint Parts
Fast Delivery!
Low Prices
Tractor Water Pumps for sale
Water Pumps
____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-18          24331


I think I'd check with the contractor to see if the site has any grade requirements. If so, is the contractor expecting the site to be delivered to him with specified grades, or is he going to do the final grading? That's an issue that would be good to be real clear about. Of course, if the contractor intends to grade the site, then removing the sod and top-soil burden wouldn't be much more work. A dozer and experienced operator would make short work of the project, grade requirements or not. Removing the burden and meeting grade requirements might be a little much for a compact and box, especially if it's a first time experience. However, just removing the burden with a compact shouldn't be too big a job. I would keep in mind comments regarding the amount of material that has to be moved though. Ripping sod with scarifiers does take a lot of traction. I can't rip meadow (similar to your field grass) in the sandy soil around here in one pass with my 6' box, 24-hp and turf tires, but two passes does just fine (maybe one pass if I had ag tires). The scarifiers don't clog with sod, but the box will fill up fast if the cutter is low enough to pick up sod while ripping it. I fully extend the scarifiers and then ride the 3ph to maintain traction and cut the sod just deep enough. After cutting, I usually can remove the sod with a combination of the box rear cutter and the loader. The meadow sod here tends to break into small chunks easily, but I guess the loader blade could be used to cut sod strips into shorter lengths if necessary. Dozing the sod backwards with the box tends to work much of our sandy soil off the sod, and I don't have to stop to remove too many sod piles with the loader. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2001-02-18          24333


Thank you all for the suggestions. My 29hp isn't going to do much more than your 24hp Tom. I have a sub contractor hauling my gravel/sand fill and may just have him do the top soil removal as well. By the sound of it, I could use the scraper more effectively to finish grade around the building and re-work the driveway. I plan on my grass road being trashed after construction and having to rip the sod and fill with stone. Any suggestions as to what brand to buy. After the initial use, I won't have much to do with it except annual driveway maintenance. How much should I spend for a medium duty box scraper? I have another question pertaining to the drains. Would it be wise to try and place the floor and toilet drains at this point so that I don't have to dig the fill after the building is up? I would be guessing at the toilet location, but the floor drain locations can be almost anywhere in the center of the structure. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
Donald
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 0 pendleton,sc
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-18          24345


We grow BoxWoods. Before we till the ground with a tractor mounted tiller, we remover the sod with a 2 yard track loader. This saves lots of tiller time & wear & tear on the tiller. Doing an area 75x75', it still takes a while using the track loader & all we remove is the sod. We did the samething when we built our shop. As for the drains - Yes! put them in the gravel. Use stakes to hold PVC in place. Once the slab is done you don't want to mess with it. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-19          24362


Cutter: Removing the topsoil with your compact sounds like a tempting project. However, I guess the job becomes sort of 'make-work' for the tractor if a contractor is coming in with fill and gravel. In a way, that's too bad. I did similar work for a construction trailer pad with a 6' box and loader last summer. The pad is about one-third the size of your site, and of course the requirements for a trailer aren't very fussy. It took about a day remove the sod and improve the existing grade. Most of another day to build up and compact the gravel, and probably another day for the trailer anchors. It was a good project.

However, using the tractor for finish grading and a road sounds like a good compromise. Boxes aren't very expensive, but I'd get one as heavy as possible. In addition, I said in another discussion that a hydraulic top-link greatly adds to a box's usefulness. I think I'd wait to see what happens to your grass road. We were quite surprised that our grass survived tracked hi-hoes and dump trucks (my Ford 1710 too) at our camp for half the summer. I guess we'll now see if the grass survives regular 1/2 ton traffic. If I did build a road at our camp, I'd remove the topsoil and start spreading and compaction gravel at the rate of a load per 70' or so. I'd let the gravel compact through use for awhile and then add more gravel and crown the road from time to time until a good surface is achieved. Gravel around here is from glacier deposits and is a mixture of sand and small rock. It compacts well, and the surface sand washes out leaving a fairly durable layer of small rock. The roadbed will end up somewhat above grade-level. You do have to figure out if surface drainage goes with, or across the road. Provision for drainage that goes across a road has to be made, or no amount of gravel will ever make an adequate surface. Most people around here don't use crushed rock for roads. It doesn't compact or freeze very well. Of course, this approach to simple road building isn't going to work very well for a road that crosses wet ground, is subject to erosion or carries heavy trucks.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
Dave M
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-19          24392


I recommend that you do not put in the drains prior to building construction, unless you clear it with your building contractor. It is just one more thing to trip over, or run into, during construction.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-20          24410


Dave, that's very good advice. There should be a prime contractor on any sizable job, and the contractor should have the plan and clear all work. Property owners who plan to do some of the work should think of themselves as sub-contractors who only work to order and spec. Incredible screw-ups are common when that sort of coordination breaks down. Unfortunately, screw-ups arenít exactly uncommon even with a prime contractor on site. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2001-02-20          24445


The site has to be to grade before the construction begins. The sub contractor is my friend and I have worked with him on other projects involving sewar and drainage. The site prep for the barn is new territory for me, although all the builder is asking for is a level surface. Getting from the sloped field to a level base with proper compaction is my goal, and the more I can save by doing it myself, the more $$ I can add to the barn. The ideas that have been presented are thought provoking to say the least. I think I will a)Have the sub contractor remove and pile the sod and topsoil b)Have his dozer spread and compact the material until the area is level c)Finish fill and grade after construction with my compact, and buy the box scraper as Tom suggested, only if the grass road gives way. I plan on letting this pad sit for a month before construction and hope it rains a couple of times so when the cement is poured, it is not still settling. Also, I asked for fiberglass reinforced cement as opposed to re-rod. I can get my hands on a trencher to go back and install the drains, it just would have saved work to lay them in before the fill. I spoke with the Morton salesman one last time to see if they made a mistake on my bid. They ended up almost double the price of the Mennonite Builders. No mistake. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
JeffM
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-20          24450


Cutter, I would strongly suggest that you rent some type of compacting machine to settle your pad before the concrete pour. The dozer should be able to compact the deeper layers, but even that top layer after you finish grade will probably continue to settle after a month. A 5 hp plate compactor will effectively compress up to about 6" of material and will take 3-6 hours to do a 45x70 area real well. A day's rental of one of these units is $40-70 in my area, depending where you go. That's well worth it to save big cracks and heaves in your floor, plus you don't have to wait a month to continue your work. I've had very good luck with the fiber-reinforced concrete in the house/garage we recently built. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Tractorpoint Parts
Fast Delivery!
Low Prices
Tractor Radiator for sale
Radiators
____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-21          24469


I imagine the sub-contractor know his stuff, so I'm not necessarily talking about this particular project. However, it is good to pay close attention to compacting and drainage, especially in my area. The frost goes down 3' or more most years (well-feeds are put in at 5'). Inadequate compacting or drainage can do astounding damage in a short time. We ended up not buying a property with a house and restaurant/garage because frost-heave had virtually destroyed the restaurant over a few years during which it was unheated. The frost cracked a corner of the house foundation over one winter it unheated. The code approved building techniques in an area have to assume a worst case soil condition. A bad year around here (heavy rains followed by a sharp freeze) and every unheated structure is at risk. Even something minor like a blocked eavestrough can turn into a problem. Of course, it good not to get too obsessive about these things--a few frost cracks can be ignored. However, it's a real good think to know if the soil/drainage conditions are marginal for a particular building technique. Spending some extra money on site preparation can end up being cheap insurance. Extra fill to raise a building site and weepers around the perimeter can improve drainage. Of course, the problem with weepers is where they weep to. When weepers are needed, the soil is already saturated along with any gravel sump. It has nowhere to drain unless it's pumped somewhere downhill. Some of the best money we ever spent was for a building tech who does field work for a PEng company. Most of these ideas and a few others come from him. Ironically, the most durable unheated structures here use the oldest technique. Logs are lain on the ground and a log house is build on top of the logs. Works, it's just that the floor is more uneven some winters than others. It's ironic because, because that's a technique that can't be used here anymore. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2001-02-21          24496


I have axcess to a tamper. The frost situation has me a bit concerned. My building will be on the crest of a hill and the fill is for the area that tapers downhill. Would it be wise to lay tile under the fill to drain moisture from the gravel? The landscape has a gradual slope of probably two feet in sixty where the building is going, except the first ten feet or so, which is relatively flat. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
Dave M
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-21          24500


I would not worry about draining the gravel. As long as the slope drains away from the building on all sides you shouldn't have any problems. One thing you might want to consider is a geotextile between your earth/fill and the gravel to prevent mixing. Of course, this will depend on your local conditions.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-22          24524


Slab on grade is designed to float and to tolerate moderate frost heaving. Drainage is a key to ensuring that the frost heave stays moderate. Filling, tiling and other techniques can help marginal sites that have drainage problems, but they ordinarily aren't necessary. A site on top of a hill probably doesn't have a problem, but an experienced contractor in the area should know what works and what doesn't for your particular site and structure design. I think itís important to keep in mind that site preparation and structure design are parts of an overall plan. Experienced contractors generally have an overall view, but people like me donít, so I always ask somebody who knows about these things. Left to my own devices, I could as easily put up a 100% code approved structure that, in fact, could be a really dumb design. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
steve arnold
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-22          24546


Morton owners out there shouldn't feel dumb because you
heard you paid twice as much as you should have!:-)
I would suggest having the dozer out at the same time
your fill is being delivered and have a loaded dump
truck run back and forth over your pad at 1 foot
intervals of fill to compact. Bulldozers dont have enough
ground pressure to do this. Also take measures to
ensure your postholes are backfilled and packed well.
After a good rain, mine sank about 3 inches with packing.
I wouldnt want that air gap under a concrete slab.
I didnt see "rat walls" mentioned in the thread, if you
have had a rodent problem in the past I would suggest them. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
JeffM
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-22          24549


There's a new one on me... what's a "rat wall"? ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
steve arnold
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-22          24553


A 24" deep concrete wall under the perimeter of a slab
that prevents burrowing animals from getting under a
slab and destroying it. You probably have them there
but with a different name. In my area it would be more
correct to call them "woodchuck walls". ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
treeman
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 251 Wisconsin
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2001-02-22          24554


5 years ago I had a 30X45' pad made for a shed. I had a 70hp Case w/loader but had my neighbor come instead with his big equip. He scraped out 12" and then rolled 3" limestone rock. Then he rolled 3/4" rock. I thought the roller was going to vibrate my house apart! This whole thing took him 4 hours. Time is money! lance ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
JeffM
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2001-02-22          24556


Thanks for the "rat wall" definition. I really have never done any true slab contruction because I've always had a "frost wall" foundation around the perimeter. In my area the frost wall has to go down 48" so I automatically have a "rat wall". I know the problem though because the last house I bought had a second garage that was built on a piered foundation and the chipmunks kept getting under the slab floor. They would build caverns in the sand there. Finally got rid of the problem (but that's a different story) with minimal settling and damage to the floor. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


____________________________________________________________________________________
Land Preparation

View my Photos
cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1303 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2001-02-22          24565


This "rat wall" sounds almost like a footer. By the time one was done with that, it might be better to pour a footer and build from stick. I do have rodents. No rats that I am aware of, but plenty of mice, chipmonks and ground hogs. I think paying close attention to the perimeter and the careful use of "oh not that" poisons if something appears would suffice (I hope!).
PS...also plenty of cats around here. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Return to index    Go Top


Share This



Tractorpoint Parts
Fast Delivery!
Low Prices
Tractor Starter Motors for sale
Starter Motors