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Should a Front Loader Bucket Scrape in Reverse

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Blondie
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 12 MD
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2011-01-04          176205


I have a Boomer 3050 with a loader, quick attach face plate, and skid steer bucket. When digging from a dirt pile, I would like to scrape off the top of the pile periodically. Unfortunately, when I try, the bucket just flattens out even if I hold the control. Is that normal for a front loader bucket?

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Should a Front Loader Bucket Scrape in Reverse

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2011-01-05          176224


"... to scrape off the top of the pile.... the bucket just flattens out...."

Could you rephrase what happens? In the scraping attempt are you going forward for filling, or are you trying to backdrag? A bucket curls or dumps; what is it that yours does?

Most buckets, especially as things wear, have a little freeplay in the linkage; you can dump or curl a few degrees by hand, but the cylinders should prevent movement beyond that minor slack. There's also slack in the hydraulic system, so getting it to hold the bucket in place can take a few seconds of pressure.


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____________________________________________________________________________________
Should a Front Loader Bucket Scrape in Reverse

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Blondie
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 12 MD
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2011-01-05          176228


This fall, I put the toothed bucket at full dump, dropped it down behind the top of the dirt pile, and hoped to backdrag the top of the dirt pile so the dirt didn't fall over the other side of the pile onto a creek bank. Each time I did this, the bucket just smoothed itself out instead of backdragging. I really can't recall if I kept on the control to keep the bucket at full dump. Unfortunately, I've got the Erskine snow blower on now, instead of the New Holland 6' heavy duty bucket with a teeth bar, but I'll try your advice out this spring and see what happens when I hold the control. I'm pretty sure I did just that but I could be wrong.

The NH 3050 was manufactured for me in June 2010 so wear and tear are not an issue. ....

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Should a Front Loader Bucket Scrape in Reverse

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2011-01-06          176247


In that operation you'd expect some "self-curl" but not enough to prevent any backdragging. Good controllers have a "float" position designed to let the bucket, well, float for smooth backdragging (as oppsed to displacement backdragging), and you may have had it in this position, so you have to keep some power to the dump position.

(Many buckets on full dump will swing the teeth from horizontal down past vertical, and of course you get the best backdragging bite when the teeth are not much beyond vertical. You want some downforce or the teeth can float as much as scrape, but too much down and you lose traction. Takes getting used to, and every pile's different.)

Test your controller this way. Tractor in neutral, bucket flat on ground, revs up some. Hold control on full dump. The bucket should gradually dump so much that it pulls the tractor forward a little. (That, along with down force, can gradually pull yourself forward if you ever lose traction.)

If that test works, do the same to pull the pile back. If not, we'll try some troubleshooting. ....

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Should a Front Loader Bucket Scrape in Reverse

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2011-01-06          176253


I'm pretty sure the loader bucket doesn't (shouldn't) have a float--usually the loader arms do. That said, it may be plumbed opposite of what it should be; swap loader and curl functions and see what happens.

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Should a Front Loader Bucket Scrape in Reverse

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5242 South Carolina
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2011-01-06          176254


The snow blower (never used one of those) does it use the hyd connections that the FEL loader does? If so is it working okay?

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Should a Front Loader Bucket Scrape in Reverse

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Blondie
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 12 MD
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2011-01-06          176257


No, the loader hydraulics are independent of the snow blower which is an Erskine ES2000 73". The snow blower is a skid steer type that goes on the Quick Attach Face Plate instead of the bucket. It has its own hydraulics for the blower & auger, chute rotation and chute deflection. Most of the hose lengths are permanently mounted on the tractor for quick install/uninstall. The hydraulics for the snow blower are powered by a fan cooled 25 gallon reservoir that hooks to the 3-point and a PTO driven pump is part of that Erskine HP15 assembly.

Problem I'm now facing is the tire chains on the rear have only a 1/2" gap to the inner edge of the fenders. Don't want to dish the rear wheels out as the outer edges of the tires would go to 86" from the present 74" while the snowblower is actually 72" at the bottom. So, looks like I need a 2" or 4" spacer on each side. ....

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Should a Front Loader Bucket Scrape in Reverse

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2011-01-06          176260


"... chains on the rear have only a 1/2" gap to the inner edge of the fenders. Don't want to dish the rear wheels out as the outer edges of the tires would go to 86" from the present 74" while the snowblower is actually 72" at the bottom. So, looks like I need a 2" or 4" spacer...."

If your only concern is traction (as opposed to squeezing through openings) you'll likely find that reversing the rears won't be a problem even if only the fronts will be on a blown path. And it will make the tractor more stable. If I'm wrong you can order the spacers. If you have a tire shop do the work, they can ballast the rears if not already done.

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Should a Front Loader Bucket Scrape in Reverse

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Blondie
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 12 MD
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2011-01-10          176333


Dealer came out last week for some warranty work and simply reversed the alcohol filled rear tires so I now have a 3" gap between the chains and the inside of the fender. And, we didn't use any spacers. The Dealer really didn't want to put on the chains he sold me 6 months ago, because he checked with some dealers in the snow belt, and they said they would not put chains on a Boomer. I really think that's because New Holland doesn't sell chains, and the dealers don't want any liability for fender damage if one breaks. He torched them after installation so they are so tight I might just leave them on year round. No rubber straps needed at all!
The rear tires with chains (none on the front) now exceed the front snow blower by 2 inches per side, so was great to read your reply that some overhang is just not a problem! Many thanks for your info!!!
Now need to find a cheaper replacement filter element for Erskine's HP15 drop in element. It's Italian and Erskine, and an independent Erskine dealer, both want $115 each plus shipping. The filter is to be replaced after the first 25 hours and then every 250 hours or 3 years. Must be gold paper ! ....

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Should a Front Loader Bucket Scrape in Reverse

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2011-01-10          176334


He "torched" them? Uhhhh you mean like heat? Or do you mean "torqued"?

Putting chains only on the rears and not on the fronts is like running mis-matched tire sizes since you are effectively making the rears taller. Driveline bind could happen on anything that all 4 wheels get traction at the same time. Ever drive a 4x4 truck in 4wd on pavement? That "jacking" of the front wheels is driveline binding. Not good. ....

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____________________________________________________________________________________
Should a Front Loader Bucket Scrape in Reverse

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2011-01-10          176338


Whether or not chains make a tire effectively taller, you should use 4WD only in slippery conditions or you invite lockup anyway. It's a bit of work to remove chains and more work to install them, but I wouldn't leave them on in the summer unless you drive only on soft surfaces and you need the traction.

If you have compressed air you can clean an air element or any garage can do it (has to be done right), and some can be washed. If any element (not just air) is exorbitant you can replace the entire housing with a standard one that takes a generic element. For comparison, I think a Yanmar air is around $30.

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Do chains make a tire taller? Depends. At one extreme, say you put a single home-made chain on. It goes through a hole in the rim around the outside of the tire and back to itself. One small chain hits the ground once a revolution. So for 99% of the rolling there's no chain, and when the chain does hit, it's like rolling over a stone.

Common chains are rather similar, in that most of the rolling has bare tire on the ground, and it's like every 6 or 12 inches you roll over a chain. These could theoretically have a mismatch effect with unchained fronts, but it would be negligable on a slippary surface.

At the other extreme are designs that always have chain on the ground. They may be termed cross-chains or names like duo-grip or duo-ladder. Especially if the links are big relative to the tire size or designed not to fit into the tire lugs, they will stand the tire higher and could create problems with bare fronts. ....

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