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Shaft for bucket

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2010-06-21          171696


I had a shaft on my excavator bucket to break Saturday. It is my impression cold roll steel is about same as the metal they used. It has to be drilled for grease and then a head welded on it. Quick guess on cost of materials will be $20 compared to $100 to purchase the shaft (if the lower price one, higher price one is over $200). It requires drilling and welding to make the shaft. Tractor shop I deal with said should be no problem with the cold roll. The shaft is about (have not measure it yet) 1 1/2 inches in diam and probably just over a foot. Any thoughts?


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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2010-06-21          171698


Regular round stock most likely won't be round nor smooth. I use chrome plated hydraulic cylinder rod from a hydraulic repair place. It's about $5 per inch new, but they may have an old rod laying around they can cut up and fix you right up. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7141 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2010-06-22          171723


If you have someone that can do the work (welding and machining) for free then using, as Jeff suggested, chrome cylinder rod will be cheaper.

I've found though that unless it's something that needs to be back in service pronto, or something like that, it's usually cheaper in the long run to just buy the mass produced part.

It kind of shakes out like that MasterCard commercial;

12" of shaft @ $5/inch.............. $60
Welding & Machining................. $30
Gas to run around for the first 2... $10

Buying the cylinder rod pre-made, the same $100.



Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2010-06-22          171735


The bigger issue is how did it break to begin with? ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2010-06-22          171736


Just got my latest www.baileynet.com hydraulics catalog today. Through them they offer 1.5" chrome plated rod cutoffs/drops for 15 - 19" lengths for $19. By-the-inch the same rod is $2.04 min of 16" per order.

Apparently my local guy has been more than doubling my price, but that included cutting, chamfering the ends, and drilling two holes in my shafts while I waited and watched him do it. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2010-06-23          171740


Why it broke is a question I wish I knew. The shaft is drilled for grease fitting and then drilled for greased to be pumped into the center of the bushing width wise. It snapped where the two drill lines intercept (the one running the length and the one through the side). It is hard to tell due to grease but it looks like it was not all fresh. The break was middle ways in the boom at an area when there is no wear bushing only a larger diameter spacer bushing.

Murf, the math; let me add a little more, shipping...

Jeff, think I know why your guy charges you what he does...that watching part.

Bake to the breaking, guess that is one reason making one seemed to hold some value to it. The bucket on it does not exceed the machine's specs. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2010-06-23          171742


Quote:
Originally Posted by kthompson | view 171740
Why it broke is a question I wish I knew.


It's not complicated Kenny, when the load exceeds the strength of what the load is bearing on, crunch happens.

In the case of an excavator bucket shaft, I'm pretty confident on saying the likely cause was either someone using the bucket as a battering ram, such as to break up concrete, or it was used to pop stumps, rocks, etc., out of the ground using nothing but brute force that were just too big for the machine.

Most hydraulic systems are capable of exerting far more pressure than the rest of the machine is capable of withstanding.

The usual culprit is putting the back of the bucket flat on the ground, with the teeth under a stump or rock, and prying it free using the curl function. In this case there is both tremendous leverage and the lack of any object readily willing to move. The bucket (large footprint) would have to push down into the earth, or the object has to come up, or something has to break.

I've seen lots of hydraulic lines explode when the operator got a little too carried away doing this.


Best of luck. ....

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Shaft for bucket

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2010-06-23          171751


Murf his machine is relatively small---prolly no more than 5-6K lbs of force at the bucket. Lately I've been renting Bobcat and Caterpillar miniex's and am very shocked---nay disappointed--- at how much these machines are NOT capable of (these are the 7,000 to 10,000 lb class).

If I understand Kenny (and it's reeeeeealy hard) the hole is perpendicular to the longitudinal hole and in the middle of the length. If yes, then possibly the bushings are so badly worn both in the bucket and the boom that the shaft fatigued from flexing at the weakest point---the center. ....

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charlieK
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 107 kentucky
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2010-06-27          171856


good info here--been lucky not to break mine--gonna tame it down a little--hopefully ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2010-07-02          172048


It has been used a good bit to dig stumps but a few months replaced the 24 or so inch bucket with a 30 inch bucket. At that time the shaft looked great. For the vast majority of the use since then has been digging dirt from piles where dumped when pond was dug. That was 50 or so years back and the dirt is solid and has stumps along in it. Some of the last work was the hardest stump digging it has done with that bucket. I was not around the machine when the shaft broke so not sure how it was being used but my son in law is normally decent and does not beat up a machine.

The reason I am posting back is just got firm prices from Volvo...the shaft that will cost like $50 for me to make is $230.59 and the steel bushings the shaft ran through are $98.78 each with two required. Again this is a shaft of about one foot long and 1 1/2 in diameter but with drilled and taped for grease fitting.

If you like those how about the cover for the fuse block is a plastic model about 1 inch square and maybe 5 inches long. Since you can not buy the cover only the fuse block with the cover is $147.17.

Now if those prices were installed would be much easier to swallow.

So to local machine shop for shaft and steel bushings it looks like. Can also hire a fuse cover milled from block aluminum for less. That would look neat. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2010-07-02          172051


Kenny a 30" bucket is pretty wide fort a michiner with a dipper stick less than about 10" wide---I gotta think you're using the corner tooth of the bucket which is putting tremendous forces on the bushings and the shaft. To break roots consider buying a ripper tooth or "frost" tooth as we call them here when the ground freezes. It takes much less oomph to snap roots, and the forces are centered to the dipper stick. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2010-07-02          172055


EW, you might be totally correct on the ratios there.

A question many have asked: so do you know a source for a good shaft and bushings for lower price?

....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2010-07-03          172067


Luckily for me I'm on the outskirts of the Motor City where job shops and suppliers of everything mechanical is within a minute's drive. Around here we have what's called Bearing Service. They have everything for what is called applied power applications. There was also a company called Applied Power. There's a company nearer to you called Bailey. Www.baileynet.com. they sell surplus pumps, cylinders, wheels, winches, chrome plated rod and bushings and hemispherical 2-piece, self-aligning bushings for application like yours. I used them on my backhoe after I ripped out the lower end of the backhoe swing mount and couldn't reweld it in a true straight line as the pivot was 2 feet long. Since my backhoe through holes were shot I had to enlarge them to the size of the new bushings. Again having auto suppliers nearby I bought an adjustable reamer for $40 and powered it with an impact wrench. The place is called Production Tool---I'm sure they can send you a 300 page catalog for free. Let me know here or call me privately if you want address or phone numbers of the aforementioned.

I checked the local dealer for pivot bushings for my skid steer and was surprised they were only $3 each. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2010-07-03          172069


Jeff, thank you.

I have sent email to a company who built the 30 inch bucket if they offer such and they are about 80 miles away. Also found a company called excavatorpins.com and have sent them my machine's info.

If such as they don't come through for me have a friend who I probably will see about making the parts. My biggest concern is the hardness specs. As to the machining he is a good as there is.

May end up calling you on this. Appreciate the offer.
....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2010-07-03          172070


You don't want hardened rod--it will snap. Hydraulic rod is usually case hardened but can also be plated with hard chrome. Bushings I would source from a place that specializes. Call or email me earthwerksguy@gmail.com. the TP remailing system here doesn't work. ....

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Shaft for bucket

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2010-07-04          172079


Like I said on another thread, you like Frank and me!

Let me hear Tuesday from and I will touch base with you. Have a great 4th.

....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2010-07-04          172082


Otay buttweet. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2010-07-05          172098


Got email reply from a company on the Internet "excavatorpins.com". Their price for a pair of pins is $100 less than Volvo for ONE and the bushings are about 1/3 the price of Volvo. Amazing difference. Have to talk with them on specs to be sure we are on same page but if all sound right will make a gamble on one set with them. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2010-07-09          172180


The bushing are sleeve style and pressed in. There are two wear bushings and one spacer between them. Total length is about 5 inches. (Now EW do the math on the 30 inch bucket verses the shaft.) The ID is 1 9/16" and the OD is just under 2". I don't have a die grinder but will buy one if need be. Any suggestions on getting those old sleeve bushings out? My only thought is to use a small punch between them and the boom to cave them in. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2010-07-09          172194


Kenny these bushings are hardened material. You won't be able to easily chisel it out.

What I did was heat two strips of the bushing 180 degrees from each other with a torch to red hot (without damaging the boom). Let it cool naturally. Then use a reciprocating saw with a bi-metal blade to cut a slot in the bushing where it was heated. Then a couple taps with flat chisel to fold it into itself and they'll pop right out.

To install the bushings keep them in the freezer for several hours befor you put them in. It' the same principle as getting into a cold pool. Lol ....

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kthompson
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2010-07-09          172197


Jeff, will trust you on the cold pool. You have to remember the difference in temps between here and there. Our cold is your summer temp, well all but maybe July. ....

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kthompson
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Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2010-07-28          172679


As my machine and torch together was going to be lot of work or cash went with die grinder. Worked great. Now have stronger arms from holding the die grinder for only about 5 ours and better tan as was forced to work in the good full sun. My best guess is in only another hour will have the second one out and touched up damaged area and be ready to install new bushings.

Now have one other question, the OD of the bushings are right at 2 inches with alls about 3/16. Have machine sitting within feet of a regular home refrigerator. Do the bushing need to be colder than say plus 10 degrees to be inserted? Or do I need to also heat the sleeve? ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2010-07-30          172702


You need to get them as cold as possible---freezer. Maybe wait until the machine gits real hot from the sun on its own. You may find that a soft block of wood and a hammer may be all you need to install the new ones. I bought new upper and lower ball joints for my truck recently. The mfg told me that they are made slightly larger than stock ones for better fit. Therefore I must put them in the freezer over nite or they will not go in. I told my mechanic the info and he kind of rolled his eyes---until he installed them. He was grinning from ear to ear. "Wow that's cool--I'll keep that in mind when I do other jobs like it" ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2010-08-03          172776


Kenny, see if there's a place around you that deals in either "industrial gases" like CO2 and such, or an ice supplier that handles 'dry' ice.

A chest cooler full of dry ice is going to make that job much easier. We use that method and a small torch to heat the old housing, works slicker than Jeff's nose on a February morning!

Oh, forgot, Jeff got smart and gave up pushing snow around. My bad. ;)


Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2010-08-03          172781


Murf I didn't mention dry ice for a couple reasons: without prper sfaety precautions Kenny and possibly others reading this might really hurt themselves or others; "No-Neck Kenny" might then be "One-hand Kenny". I did some research for a friend that was sending his kid cross-country on a bus with a cooler. It was just too risky since the dry ice gas would displace oxygen and potentially suffocate them.

Kenny being Kenny one of us (or you) would have to hold his hand through the process----it's been what, a month or more since it broke down in the field. ....

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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5219 South Carolina
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2010-08-03          172783


Jeff reading how concerned you are for my safety brought a tear to me eye.

To Murf, my wife is the best local dry ice expert I know as they did make it and use it in hospital lab where she works. I will ask her.

Oh on the time line, it is really looking like a real contractor's machine with the grass growing on the dirt in the bucket and the vines providing shade for operator. Much better option than a "lace" curtain. I do agree it has been down too long. ....

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