Go Bottom620 I Gator - getting fuel in crankcase oil
 | ofd727
Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 8 Nebraska 
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2009-09-10 165565
I have a 620I gator that is getting fuel in the oil. I spoke with a JD tech and he said it is possibly from short trips and not getting it to operating temps. He said the book says to change the oil if the level increases to 3/8" over the full mark. I changed the oil and monitored it. I got around 1/2" over the full mark in 2 hours of operation. Just wondering if anybody has any other ideas. Possibilities - fuel injectors, air temp sensor, pressure sensor??
Thanks for helping
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa 
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2009-09-10 165566
727
I'll re read my owners manual, if that is in there then I missed it.
I'm by no means a JD Tech but asuming this is a gasoline model with a fuel injected engine that just don't add up. Ours gets used sometimes five or six times a day for five to ten minute jogs and I've never noticed any gas in the oil. I think something else is wrong, not sure what tho. ....
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2009-09-10 165567
Other than the leakage does it seem to run well? A leaking injector might seep extra fuel that gets by the rings but it doesn't seem it would run very well if that's the case. ....
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| ofd727
Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 8 Nebraska
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2009-09-10 165569
Yes this is a fuel injected gasoline model. The book reference I spoke of is a JD technical bulletin/solution that a JD tech rep read to me. It was not in the owners manual for the machine. Let me know if you have any other ideas.
Thanks ....
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| ofd727
Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 8 Nebraska
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2009-09-10 165570
It seems to run alright and does not miss. The only thing I have noticed is that it does not start as quickly as it did in the past. It will turn over just a few times before it starts now. In the past it seems like you just touched the key and it was runnning no matter what the air temp was. It has around 290 hours on it now. ....
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| gatoraider
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 544 Maryland 
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2009-09-13 165610
First, there is a bulletin for the older 620 motor regarding fluid in the oil. It states that the drain holes in the heads are very small and it takes a long time for all the oil to get into the lower crankcase. It says to fill the crankcase to half way up the stick when you change the oil and wait until the next day to check the level on the stick. Half inch rise is not uncommon. I've had many people say they were getting gas in their oil and it was just slow draining oil. Crankcase oil will smell like gas also. But if you are continually raising the level in the crankcase you have a problem. If there is a malfunction in the ECU it should set a code that flashes on the dash when you turn the key on. Codes are a series of long ( 1.2 sec.)and short ( .2 sec. )flashes with a 4.8 second pause. If more than one code is set, it will follow the first and then the cycle will repeat. Also certain codes will shut one cylinder down so you can't run it very far. You say yours is running OK, so I guess it isn't one of those codes. I don't know which codes shut it down and which don't. I would try this. If you don't have any flashing codes, I would monitor the oil level and see if it continues to rise, best to check after it has sat overnight. If it continues to rise it sounds like a good question for a high echelon John Deere Tech Guru. Good luck. ....
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| ofd727
Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 8 Nebraska
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2009-09-14 165627
Thanks for the info. It does not show any codes and the JD tech guys are stumped also. The rise in the crankcase fluid/oil is excessive. The original reason we found the problem was when my wife said she had white/blue smoke pouring out of the exhaust. I checked the oil and it was around 1 1/2" to 2" over full. She must have turned on a slope and some oil got splashed into cylinder?? Any how it had around 30 hours on an oil change and I drained out around an extra 3/4 of a quart of fluid. I ironically drained it into a few "Gatorade" bottles that I had in my pickup so I had a pretty good idea of the amount. JD tech guys said to pull injectors and have them checked. If they come back ok it sounded like we would start throwing parts/sensors at it until we fix it. Let me know if you have any more thoughts on this. ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-09-14 165630
I don't have a tech manual for a 620i, nor have I had to be in one yet, but are the other fluids of the machine normal, coolant, transaxle fluid. Seems if the contamination is of that amount the other fluids whould have gone dry if there is a way they can intermix from a bad gasket, etc.
Being you have the old oil in a Gatorade bottle does it seperate out after sitting overnight? Does the old oil smell of gas? Frank. ....
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| AllisMan
Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 6 Horseheads, NY
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2009-09-14 165632
Push the dealer for resolution. The fuel injected units have a canned program for fuel delivery. If you do a lot of starting and stopping, too much fuel for cold starts washes down the cylinders and into the crankcase. Common problem... ....
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| gatoraider
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 544 Maryland
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2009-09-14 165634
I talked to the service manager in the midwest that I talk to when I get stumped on something and he said they had the same exact problem on an EFI Z-turn mower. They checked everything, sensors, leak down, injectors, all of it. What they finally did was pull the pistons out, hone the cylinders, and put new rings in it and that fixed it. I don't know if D tech even knows about it. The machine was out of warranty. He said it looked like it may have been blowing by at the top of the compression stroke, kinda like what Allisman just said. I don't know how old yours is but I would think you have a case for a repair or at least some help. ....
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| ofd727
Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 8 Nebraska
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2009-09-14 165635
Thanks to all for the replies. To answer a few questions - the oil did smell of gas and unfortunatly I did not save it. It went into the used oil barrel. I checked the coolant and it was ok. The oil on the dipstick initially was so clean and thin it was hard to see. It must have cleaned out the crankcase well because the new oil since is still extremely clean. To Gatoraide - Thanks for doing some research. The injectors are being tested today. I hope I don't have to hone the cylinders every 18 months. That sounds like it might get pricey. Is the theory that the cylinders are glazed due to shorts trips/ putting around. Would a leak test indicate this or is it just at top of compression stroke as you said. Maybe I should trade it for a new diesel model. ....
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| gatoraider
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 544 Maryland
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2009-09-14 165643
I have talked to my friend again and he has shed more light on the subject. He said when he took the motor apart there was an unusual amount of carbon on top of the piston and around the combustion chamber. He also said he took a compression test before he took it apart and it was unusually high. He couldn't remember what it was but that it was high. He called Deere and asked if there was a high limit on compression and they said no. They only give the low limits. He also said the tops of the pistons were shiney charcoal black with alot of build up. My thinking is that all that build up would decrease the area in the combustion chamber and therefore increase the compression, possibly to the point of squeezing past the rings and into the crankcase. He also said that before he tore it down the guy would drain the bad oil out of it and replace it because he had to use the machine. When he ran it he said it was the fastest mower on the block. More compression, more power. Now, the fact that changing rings fixed the problem could have been a byproduct of cleaning all the carbon out of the cylinder, maybe getting the carbon out would have fixed it too. There are people at Deere that know about the problem but all they say is run it hard and get it hot. Keep the buildup to a minimum. He also said that he knew of one case where changing injectors helped, but the problem came back. I'm thinking that using the best gas available would be a good idea. It will be interesting to hear what your dealer comes up with. ....
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| ofd727
Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 8 Nebraska
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2009-09-14 165644
They are scratching their heads too. I have gotten more information from you (Gatoraider) than them so far. I am still waiting for the verdict on the injectors. I will keep you posted. ....
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| dpintn
Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3 United States
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2009-10-26 166541
Hey guys...new member here
Was searching the web for this exact same problem when i came across this thread.
My 620i has 89 hr. After you got it warmed up good it would all of a sudden blow out a huge cloud of blue smoke then quit smoking a short while then do it again.
I checked the oil and it was about 1 1/2 inch high on the stick.I also use mine for short trips.
Did you find out the cause of this? Thanks for any help ....
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| ofd727
Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 8 Nebraska
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2009-10-27 166557
Yes I think we figured it out. JD ran several tests on it searching for the problem. They replaced the entire throttle body on it. I have not put that many hours on it since but it seems to have fixed the problem. They said it was possibly an electrical issue with the unit causing the problem. ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-10-27 166561
I had a chance to visit mwith a
I had a chance to visit with a Deere mower tech about this. He made no mention of changing the throttle body but did say they had a Gator and a couple Mowers with the gas/oil dillution problem. In all three cases two common things enmerged, non recommended crankcase oil and short run operation.
Our Gator use is sporatic, sometimes a couple hour run, then several five minute runs, but always have used the recommended Deere 10/30 Gasoline grade oil, and so far so good. Frank.
....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-10-27 166564
I forgot to mention, the Deere oil for the Gator is Turf-Gard. ....
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| dpintn
Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3 United States
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2009-11-12 166829
Thanks for the help
Mine is in the shop now and they don't really know what to think about it either.
My warranty is out but in the back of the owners manual it states that 2008 and newer gators have an emmision warranty for 30 mo. This does cover the fuel system.
I'll let you know what they find ....
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