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L2350 clutch problem

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MrMark
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9 North Texas
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2008-06-26          154848


Hey friends,

Working on a neighbors L2350 that has no clutch. Previous symptom, prior to my getting ahold of this thing, is they claimed the brush hog would lug down and cause engine overheating. Brush hog has an old, old Ohio gearbox on it, and looks to be 100 years old (maybe less).
A problem I found when I went to start it up after sitting all winter was there wasn't any clutch pedal to speak of. But I got it started, but couldn't get it out of the corral it was being stored. Yesterday, I went to start it up (found the key to the corral) and it wouldn't even turn over. Dash lights lit, just no turnover. So I snooped around, made sure everything was in neutral, still wouldn't turn over. SO I got a wire and jumpered the solenoid at the starter, and she cranked right up. I throttled down, shifted into gear, and drove her home.
Snooping around, it looks like there is a kill switch on the right hand side, attached to a through rod, which is the thrust assembly for the clutch. Without clutch, the rod don't turn, and the kill switch does not close.

I suspect that either a) the throwout bearing is shot, b) the clutch is burnt up, c)the pressure plate is burnt up, or d) all three. And I suspect the brush hog was the first indicator there was a problem because I think when the clutch is pressed, all power to wheels and PTO is no longer applied.
And just to note, the site glass on the tranny side pops out. It appears it's just a "push-in" type, and should be a snug fit. This one must be bad.

Anyone have any thoughts, and can any give me idea of how hard of a repair this will be? I am a pretty good mechanic on cars, having rebuilt several, as well as having designed all kinds of mechanical assemblies, so breaking this tractor in half doesn't bother me, unless there is a great big coil spring that's going to pop out at me when I split the case.

Thanks in advance. I really like the board, and look forward to cruising by and offering my thought's on occasion.

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L2350 clutch problem

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2008-06-27          154867



They don't get much simpler then that to work on! ....

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L2350 clutch problem

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-06-27          154871


MrMark,

You might ask your neighbor if he'd be willing to invest in a set of shop and parts manuals for his tractor.

It's a worthwhile investment. The manuals aren't expensive.....about $150.00 for the set. (Cheaper on CD ROM through Ebay. See Ebay auction # 120273012712)

The manuals will more than pay for themselves when not having to hire a dealer to do the work.

Ebay auction link posted below.

Joel

....


Link:   L2350 Parts Manual

 
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____________________________________________________________________________________
L2350 clutch problem

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MrMark
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9 North Texas
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2008-06-27          154875


Thank you to all for your input.

As I though about it more last night, and after reading various posts on the board here, I am beginning to think the clutch could also be stuck to the flywheel.

It's either one of the other, but if it's stuck to the flywheel, it sounds like there is a remote chance I can break it free without splitting the frame. My only question is, from what I have read, you drive the tractor up against a fixed object, put in gear, and pop the clutch pedal several times. Well, with this one, you never feel the clutch in the pedal, and the lever arm that the linkage is attached to is in the "clutch depressed" position, and does not spring back by the pressure plate springs (assuming that's how it's made).

Anybody have a thought on this?

candoarms, thanks for the link! I think I can get him to spring for one of those.

Art White, not sure I understand your comment. Are you agreeing with my assessment? ....

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L2350 clutch problem

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7209 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-06-27          154876


If you can't feel anything (pressure, change, feedback of any kind) through the clutch pedal I'd put my money on the clutch lever being toast.

When the clutch seizes solid the first reaction people have is to push harder on the pedal, this is usually an expensive thing to do. If the clutch doesn't move, your leg muscle will easily buckle the clutch lever.

Before you decide to split the tractor do yourself a favour and make up a jig, it will save you countless hours of work and cursing.

Make a pair of tracks (like train tracks) from steel pipe about the same width as the hood with cross members welded or bolted in between them. Next make up a stand that bolts into the FEL mounts on the block to support the engine and front end. Next make up a rolling (on the tracks) dolly that bolts into the rear FEL mounts on the transmission. With everything mounted, it's really easy to unbolt the flywheel and roll the rear part back away from the front half.

IMHO the clutch won't require a set of manuals, any dealer should be more than willing to print what you need (about 3 pages) out from the computer for free.

Best of luck. ....

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L2350 clutch problem

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MrMark
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9 North Texas
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2008-06-27          154878


Thanks Murf! I understand what your saying on the train track perfectly (was wondering how it was done out in the field, as opposed to a tractor workshop.).

So your saying the throwout bearing lever is probably damaged? As in bent internally? I know the linkage arm bent some when I readjusted the linkage, and then depressed the pedal. It was after I did that that I realized the shaft sticking out of the right hand side with the adjustable flag on it was what depressed the clutch start switch. I noticed the start switch Thursday when I went over to get it, and it would not turn over (see original post). I moved the flag yesterday, off the switch, and it still didn't turn over, but there may have been something else not set in a neutral position.

If you were guessing, how much do you think it would cost to repair this unit at a shop? I could do it, but building the railroad track might make the project prohibitive just because of the time involved to do that, then fix the tractor, only to have a frame sitting around that can't be used for much of anything else (unless the clutch fails again.).

Thoughts? ....

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L2350 clutch problem

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7209 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-06-27          154882


First off the track doesn't have to be anything fancy, I've seen everything from angle iron laid flat so as to make a V shape pointing up and use pulleys as wheels and wood for the stands, to several all wood setups. I've welded up an angle iron track with flat bar crossers for people before, it only took an hour or so to do.

Bear in mind the whole tractor only weighs a little over 2k pounds, and you are only supporting a small portion of that weight, and even then spread over 2 different stands. I doubt you need to support anything more than about 500 pounds max. at any one place.

As for the lever, yes, most are simply stamped pieces of plate, sort of a fancy formed 'C' channel, if you push too hard on them they just buckle and fold.

I don't recall how it works on your unit, but I know on some the clutch lever is mounted (pivots) on a plate in the side of the tractor and comes out on that plate when you remove it. If this is the case I would spend an hour and have a look first.

As for cost, I'm going to guess a clutch job in a shop will be 8 hours labour minimum, Art could give you better idea being a Kubota dealer himself. Send him a PM or email and see what he says.

Best of luck. ....

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L2350 clutch problem

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MrMark
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9 North Texas
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2008-06-27          154884


Thanks again Murf!

The shaft goes through the casting. It looks like once you remove the safety switch flag, the rod slides out the left hand side of the casting. There is an inspection plate (I guess, just below and to the front of where the rod penetrates the casting on the right hand side. It might be an inspection port of some kind, have not taken it off to see (2 bolts, stamped Z shaped plate, gasket. Plate is about 3 inches square less the z shape.).

I just went out and looked, the FEL looks like it would balance the weight of the engine, and all I would need would be a transmission jack under the tranny to support it and roll the rear half back once the crankcase bolts were removed. At worst case, I could block the engine up under the FEL cross-brace that runs right under the lower rear of the engine to be sure the engine doesn't fall. Again, then use the tranny jack, and it's a split deal.

I'll send Art that PM.

Thought's on the above? ....

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L2350 clutch problem

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7209 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-06-27          154886


First off, be really careful about using the FEL and a jack for the front of the tractor, the front axle pivots and the amount of surface area of the bucket bottom will NOT be enough to stop it from rolling on the front axles pivot point if it got bumped!!

I would be taking a good long look into that bell housing before I even thought about tearing into it. See if you can get, or borrow, an inspection camera like the Ridgid brand SeeSnake (see link below) they're not a lot of money (~$200) and can save a lot of grief on something like this.

I have seen a tranny jack used for the back half, the combination of adjustments and roll makes the process go easier for sure. Just be sure you're on a smooth solid floor, those little wheels don't roll well at the best of times.

Best of luck. ....


Link:   Rigid SeeSnake Inspection Camera.

 
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L2350 clutch problem

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-06-28          154913




I was refering to splitting the tractor to inspect the clutch and pressure plate. Very basic system.

We don't use anything to fancy while splitting thee tractors but I'd get a couple of wedge shaped pieces of wood to keep the front axle and chassis fixed. We remove loaders to make it easier to adjust the tractor halves for taking apart as well as putting together. ....

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L2350 clutch problem

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MrMark
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9 North Texas
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2008-06-28          154916


Thanks all.

Was just thinking about it this morning over coffee. The throwout bearing shaft, the shaft that the clutch pedal linkage hooks up to, does not move at all. In fact, it is in the pedal depressed position so that the clutch start safety switch is depressed (although as mentioned earlier, for some reason the tractor won't key start, but I can jumper start at the starter.).
And, there is no clutch as it grinds when you try to shift gears.

I know in my old Volkswagon's when the clutch or pressure plate had a problem, the throw out arm still moved, you just couldn't feel anything as I mentioned before.

I know it's a second time around on what you think the problem may be, but just wanted to be sure all the facts were known for analysis (or re-analysis.).

Morf, I understand exactly what your saying on the FEL. And to both you and Art, I will do this on my concrete driveway, and will block the front wheels. Was going to block under the rear of the engine using jack stands so it wouldn't fall. Was also debating about leaving the brush hog on the rear in order to keep the rear stable, although it might make for difficulty when we assembling.

Again, thanks to you both for your knowledge and insight. Art, do you give Tractorpoint friends a good deal on parts?
....

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____________________________________________________________________________________
L2350 clutch problem

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MrMark
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9 North Texas
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2008-07-20          155444


Hey all.

I removed the inspection cover on the lower right side near where your right toes would be, Can't see much, but what I can see, is a thick coating of accumulated clutch dust on what I think is the spindle. Maybe some corrosion as well. If I had to guess, I would say this tractor had been underwater at some time.
If the clutch/pressure plate/thrust bearing assembly looks like it did on my old VW or the old Chevy's, then I would say the accumulated dust on the spindle is keeping the thrust bearing from sliding back. What is weird is, when the tractor was stored last fall, the owner did not lock the clutch pedal down, yet the thrust bearing rod which ties to the pedal linkage is bottomed out as though the pedal were being pressed down. And, the clutch is engaged all the time.
I did make a linkage adjustment, and slightly bent the lever on the thrust bearing rod, but it is not bent too far from original manufacture.

So, if I go to split this thing, where is it best to break the hydraulic pump line? Under the seat, or at the pump?

And the FEL. There are two square rods mounted inside the frame on the left hand side. About 1/2 inch square, 3 feet long, and they clip to the frame. What are they used for? I assume they are used to aid in removing the FEL, but how?

When removing the FEL, I assume you drive the tractor where your going to leave the FEL, drop the bucket, remove the bolts on left and right hand side near the footrests, use hydraulics to cause the frame to lift out of the frame sockets where the bolts were removed. I suspect you then use the rods mentioned above to hold the frame up. You then disconnect the hydraulic lines, and somehow, disconnect the FEL at the front end under the radiator. I assume it's the two lever like bolts are removed.
Then you back the tractor out of the FEL.

I know it's a lot of information, but any input on the above is welcome.

Oh, and I noticed yesterday that the right front journal (4wd) has oil leaking from it. How difficult is this going to be to repair? I assume a seal kit would be needed, but any other special tools or surprises? ....

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____________________________________________________________________________________
L2350 clutch problem

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MrMark
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9 North Texas
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2008-09-06          156517


Hello all.

Finally got this tractor split open this weekend. Was quite surprised at the amount of rust inside the clutch crankcase. I suspect what happened was the owner parked this thing out in the open, under a partial shade tree, on the North side of his barn. It looks like the rust was caused by condensation building inside the cold crankcase as a result of the crankcase mass being cold during the day, and moisture being drawn in through the cracks and seams of the assembly, where it condensed and froze everything together. We really had to do some work to get the clutch shaft out of the clutch case, using heat, WD-40, and a persuader to get it out, after first emery cloth to clean the shaft up.

So, now for parts. Does anyone have a good resource for supplying, or alternative suggestions? We'll need -

Clutch
Pressure plate
Spring (from clutch crankcase to throwout yoke)
Throwout bearing
Yoke support shaft (holds throwout bearing and has lever which clutch pedal linkage attaches.).
Transmission pilot bearing (for end of crankshaft).
Pressure plate bolts.
Drive shaft cover seal.
Hydraulic line O-rings (at pump. The lines that had to be disconnected to break tractor apart, not associated with the FEL.).
Transmission fluid site glass and O-ring.
Left and right wheel seal kit for 4WD.
Fan belt

And, any suggestions on resurfacing the flywheel?

Thanks in advance to all who have helped in this project!
....

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L2350 clutch problem

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2008-09-07          156522


MrMark,

Try the good people at Coleman Equipment, in Bonner Springs, Kansas. They've always treated me well. Speak with Mary in the parts department.

There are also dealer representatives on this board who will be able to help you.

See the link below.

Joel ....


Link:   Coleman Equipment

 
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____________________________________________________________________________________
L2350 clutch problem

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MrMark
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9 North Texas
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2008-09-22          156815


Hello all. Just wanted to drop a message, and ask another question, on this tractor.

We broke it apart, resurfaced the flywheel, replaced the clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, and other misc. parts, and put it all back together. All went well, and again, thanks to all who provided input.

Now we have another problem that we didn't have before. No hydraulic pressure. We replaced the o-rings at the hydraulic pump suction and discharge lines (that's where we broke the lines to pull the tractor apart.).

When we didn't get oil pressure, we completely drained the tranny case and refilled with new fluid. We loosened the discharge line and we get pressure. But the pump runs hot unless we loosen the pressure spring on the left side, under the seat of the tractor. When we have the cap turned almost all the way out, we hear the engine speed up, and the pump cools off (telling us we have flow.). But still no lift on the 3-point hitch (FEL is not installed yet until we get the hydraulic problem figured out.).

Just to note, when the guys took the FEL off, they didn't run the lift control all around to release all the line pressures. We went to put the FEL back on when we found we didn't have hydraulic pressure.

Any ideas on how to solve the problem would be appreciated. We have a shop service manual, but nothing in there tells how to bleed the hydraulic system. ....

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