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 | shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin 
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2006-05-18 129524
I just received the building permit for my new pole shed. I've had the level site prepared for a year or so with a good sand base and 4" of gravel on top of that. The building will be 30'x60'. Approximately half of it is planned to be my up-north retirement greasemonkey shop (~8 yrs). The other half will either be unheated storage or if I really dream hard, a separate wood shop. I have enough wood shop machinery in my basement right now to take up much of what's left. And the two shops would need to be separated to function well. I've planned a 10' door on each gable end and two 36" access doors but other than that it's an open canvas.
I've built a couple of houses so I should have the skills. Building a pole barn looks like mostly grunt work so I will probably hire two or three guys to help and generally be the "ramrod."
Does anyone have any words of wisdom out there? Is there something you did that you liked or didn't like? Any features that looked good and had to be preplanned before the initial construction?
Thanks in advance,
Dave
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 | JasonR
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 142 Northern Indiana 
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2006-05-18 129525
Even if you don't immediately put it to use, tubing the floor for radiant floor heat is a great luxury. If your going to spend any time on the floor working on stuff in the winter, it sure is nice. Additionally, when you pull in snow covered, wet tractors/vehicles, the floor is dries up in about 30 minutes once the vehicles stops dripping. ....
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 | earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan 
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2006-05-18 129542
I built one by myself for a customer (not counting the concrete work) with a 12/12 roof pitch and lean-to covered potting area and it took me a month full time in high humidity and 93 degree days---never will do it again with only a bobcat. Bought a 40'self-propelled telescoping manlift for next time. Since I did it alone, I used my big bobcat loader and a 20 ft. crane attachment (30' total vertical reach) I made to lift pre-assembled truss-and-girts (3 trusses) that I put together on the ground up and onto the top plates, then slid them back with the crane. I used a pneumatic palm nailer to drive the spiral pole barn nails and the ring shank nails (try holding a 20 ft. 2x12 on a short ladder AND nailing with a hammer without a helper) I bought three cordless 18v screwdrivers and used about 3,000 screws. My arms were sore for two weeks after. While keepingt my balance 2 stories up on a 45 degree angle I had to load the drill with a screw, hold it in place and hit the back of the drill with the other hand to pierce the metal with the screw. Down on the ground I found pre-piercing with a nail saved a lot of time and aggravation. Local codes said I had to use a continuous foundation like a regular garage so I dug the 9" trench with a rented miniexcavator (which I flipped on it's side) (DOH!! $450 for a new door window) and then suspended and braced the poles in the trench and then poured concrete. One course of bottom boards became the forms for the floating floor.
An all-metal roof with no insualtion will sweat like crazy---even a wood and shingle one will too when you heat it and the air temp is low enough to make condensation. Just working and breathing in it for extended times will make it sweat. If you do heat the floor (or even if you don't but want to conserve energy when heating it) you will have to line the foundation trench inside, outside and the bottom, and the floor bottom with 2" or thicker foam to thermally isolate it. (we quoted a 50x100 barn for a guy and it added $10,000 to the price to thermally isolate it). In our area the going price 3 years ago was $2 per covered sq. ft (roof and walls) for labor exc. conc.
If you are business you can depreciate a fully-metal barn/building in about 5 years versus 26 years for a wood and steel structure since it can be disassembled and repossessed by the lending institution if there is loan out for it. There are companies out there that all they do is metal building financing because of the US tax laws. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2006-05-19 129551
We did an addition on our shop this past year on basically gravel ground but had some problems in a couple of sandy areas with the poles settling. We went back in and put some additional poles in those areas with larger concrete pads to support the poles to keep them from further settling. At this point I'd recommend to totally tamp the area at the base of poles as well as allowing a concrete pad to dry before setting the poles especially in sand or to build a full footer below the poles as a contractor had recommended to be sure of no settling. The heated floors are nice but with time and possible cracks you need to be sure you reinforce the concrete enough not to break a line. There is only one time to build a building right, thats the first time. ....
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2006-05-19 129558
JasonR: I won't be pouring the floor for a year or so but I will certainly think about the in-floor heat. It makes alot of sense in a shop with a concrete floor. I've got to make a rule for myself until then, and that is not to store anything in there that isn't on wheels or on a pallet for easy removal when it's time to pour.
earthwks: My house has a 12/12 pitch roof too. But there's a big difference between shingles at 45 degrees and slippery steel. I'll stick to the normal 4/12 trusses for this job. Do the palm nailers work well for the large polebarn nails? I've seen them on TV but have never used one. I've got a Paslode gas powered framing nailer but that's limited to 12 penny nails so I don't think it will be of much use on this project. I should get started building a pole with a hook on top to set the trusses on the posts. It would attach to my FEL. I suppose it would have to reach about 15' high to grab the peak of the truss.
Art: Do you remember the size of the pads you poured? Were they sitting on fairly fresh fill? I always thought that sand was one of the best bases for a lasting foundation.
Dave ....
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| JasonR
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 142 Northern Indiana
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2006-05-19 129562
Dave - just out of curiosity, did you price compare a steel frame barn vs. wood? I don't know the current prices of steel vs. wood, but when I built mine steel was about the same price. I added a web link where you can quickly design and price one online if your interested.
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2006-05-19 129568
Dave, if there's one thing I always advise people who are about to build it is this: "Spend a few extra dollars to leave your options open in the future.".
- If you're pouring a floor slab, put in PEX tubing now, when you get older you WILL want a warm floor.
- When you put in the electric, make it a 100 amp service panel, even if t is only running off a pony panel in the main service, eventually you WILL want (need?) more power. Besides, they only go up in price, you may as well buy one now.
- Conduit and Plumbing, even if you have no notion of ever having a septic system, put in the pipes for a drain and toilet now. Likewise, electircal conduit, put in a few extras BEFORE you pour, you never know what you may want to add later.
Basically, find the spiffiest shop you can, and leave the allowance to be able to add in any of those 'creature comforts' or features that you may one day want for yourself.
Best of luck. ....
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2006-05-19 129571
Jason, Thanks for the link.
Murf: I have a 100 amp service to my shop now at home. I put in a commercial style breaker box in my house and 100 amp breaker off the house to the shop. So far for the work I do (large compressor, stick and wire feed welders, exhaust fan, grinders and lots of lighting) it has been enough current so I'll probably do the same thing up north. The power pole and transformer is equidistant from the house and shop up north so if someday I need more, I'll put in another meter to the shop.
Even though I hadn't planned on plumbing the building your thought of putting rough plumbing in place is a good one and relatively cheap. Having some actual plumbing would be better than the funnel in the corner with the outlet sticking outside of the wall. :) ....
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 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2006-05-19 129573
I have a good friend who is a house builder. He built a metal building and said the cost for the company was close enough he should have let them assemble it over his crew.
The screws being problem into the metal: be sure you use proper screws. My first metal roofing had wood screws and boy were they hard to start. Ended up predrilling holes. Next order came in with the proper screws, big difference. Be sure you use magnetic bit.
I drilled my shed post and ran about 5/8 rebar through the post making a cross and poured concrete. Settling has not been an issue.
100 Amp main? Depending on your machines and if by chance you were to happen to have a couple of friends over or your shop were to become a business I rather have a little larger service. In my part of the world a 200 Amp service is standard. But hey we like Air Conditioning, and total electic here.
If you are trenching from house be sure to run phone and cable for TV and extra conduit for just in case.
I wish you well. kt ....
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2006-05-19 129584
"100 Amp main? Depending on your machines and if by chance you were to happen to have a couple of friends over or your shop were to become a business I rather have a little larger service. In my part of the world a 200 Amp service is standard. But hey we like Air Conditioning, and total electic here. "
The main will be 200 amp to the house with 100 amps from there to the shop.
Screwing down a metal roof will be a new one for me. I'll be sure to use self tapping screws. Our local home centers (call Menards) started out building pole barns back in the 70s (maybe earlier). They do a pretty good job making sure you have the right materials for the job.
Dave ....
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| JasonR
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 142 Northern Indiana
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2006-05-19 129586
If you haven't already bought the roof yet, you may want to look into a 'standing seam' roof. The basic design is such that you attach clips to your structure and the roof snaps onto the clips. Additionally the roof panels interlock with each other, almost eliminating screw holes in the roof - which pretty much makes it leak-proof.
I know the 'snapping onto clips' may make it sound a little whimpy, but I think mine has a 90 MPH wind rating and it's already survived 70MPH+. I used the Ultra-Dek product from MBCI. ....
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 | Woodie
Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 109 Michigan lower
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2006-05-22 129703
shortmag-
Just an observeation , my brother 30x40x10pole barn has metal roof -a light misting rain sounds like a Major weather event let alone the occaisonal acorn -sounds deafing. Also condensation on inside can prove annoyance at times. I put up a 30x60x10 shingle roof and osb side with vinyl(wife wanted barn to match house). Got one slider on gable end, 2 overhead doors,& svc door on long side and 4 winodws on the other gable end. split up in thirds window end woodshop/general tinker, middle bay 'grease monkey work' and last bay the tractor and implements plus boat ....
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2006-05-23 129721
Woodie,
You're suggestion is a good one. What you're thinking of is a more permanent building. At a minimum I will price the materials out. I'm sure I would like it better in the long run.
Dave ....
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| Chett
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2006-05-23 129738
Last summer my wife and I built a 24 x 56 pole barn – ½ finished shop – ½ storage. Great Summer Project! – Good luck on yours
Couple suggestions
· We spent some additional bucks on attic roof trusses – 7/12 pitch. So we have a loft throughout the entire building. When we built it I swore I would never be able to fill the attic. – Boy was I wrong –
· Larger garage door – we planned on 10 and ended up with a 16
· Plumb it for water and drains – I didn’t and already wish I would have
· Windows – We didn’t think we wanted a lot…. ended-up we did.
· Take your time and have fun – some things we rushed.
· Wrap the building with a moisture barrier
· We did a curtain drain all the way around the building – good piece of mind – depends on your grade also
....
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