47 BH Leaking down: Back Hoe  -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum and Review 47 BH Leaking down: Back Hoe -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum

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 03-02-2002, 13:11 Post: 36001
PKwiatkowski
2002-03-02 13:11:03
Post: 36001
 47 BH Leaking down

I have a JD 4300 HST with 420 loader and 47 BH, about 4 months ago the BH and loader started slowing leaking down over a period of time, usually a couple of days. I brought it into the dealer before warrantee was up and they advised that JD allows for some leakage and there was nothing they could do. When I say leakage I don't mean visable fluid anywhere, the boom/ loader lower to the ground. I have not noticed any fluid leaking anywhere. Of course, warantee is up now and it has gotten worse. BH and loader do not seem to have the same amount of power it use to. any ideas what might be wrong. I disagree with JD that this is acceptable. BH may have 100 hours on it. Is it time to start writting letters to JD directly since the dealer isn't willing to help.






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 03-03-2002, 07:43 Post: 36021
TomG

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 47 BH Leaking down

Tough call: I have a used mid-80's tractor. I don't know if the 3ph or loader have ever required work, and they don't leak down. You sort of expect things to last longer than 100-hours. Of course, dealers and manufacturers probably will say that everything should be set down when shutting of a tractor and so leak down isn't a problem unless it severe enough to interfere with operations.

I wonder if it's lack of power, lack of speed or both? A pressure check could be run if the hoe seems to be stalling where it didn't previously but the speed is still normal. An old hydraulic filter could cause both speed and power problems. Bad cylinder o-rings or spooling valves could cause loss of power, but the leak down rate usually would be much faster. If there are quick disconnects on the loader lines, they could be disconnected to see if there's still leak down. If there is, then the problem likely is the cylinder piston seals.






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 03-03-2002, 17:42 Post: 36033
Carter
2002-03-03 00:00:00
Post: 36033
 47 BH Leaking down

I've got a 47 hoe on my 4300 which has the same problem and i got about the same answer from my dealer. If you go to the JD website and search for tips and troubleshooting, they have a chart which shows how much leakdown is acceptable and how to determine whether it is the valve or the cylinder. It shows the lift cylinder as 0.6 in/minute and stablizer cylinder at 0.3 in/minute. Seal kits for the valve or cylinder run about $30 per each plus install. I've heard that there was a problem with the valve assembly procedure at the factory but can't substantiate that. Once the weather warms up here i'm going to get the hoe out and check it out and if it is out of spec try and get JD to fix out. If your valve and/or cylinder is leaking it would seem like you have lost power when you are using it. Good luck and let us know how you make out.






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 03-04-2002, 06:59 Post: 36049
Ken Butner



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 47 BH Leaking down

I have had the same problem with my 4300, 430 loader and 47 BH. When I say leak down, I don't mean over hours, I mean with the tractor running and operating the loader would not stay up. Every few seconds, I would have to raise the loader back up AND recurl the bucket to keep it off the ground, yes seconds.. Under warranty at 200 hours the dealership replaced all the cylinders on my loader and rebuilt one on the bh. Now the warranty is gone, and at about 500 hours, the replacement cylinders are also going bad again, internal leakage... So at my expense, I am having to have all four loader cylinders rebuilt. It must be just another one of those 4000 series issues. To be honest, I am getting a little tired of this stuff. Lately, I been surfing the web sites of other tractor brands a lot! :^) -Ken






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 03-04-2002, 11:07 Post: 36061
DRankin



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 47 BH Leaking down

I guess I will not complain about my 4100 FEL dropping 18 inches overnight in warm weather. In cold weather it will stay up for days...... maybe you can increase the viscosity of the hydraulic fluid?? I don't have a reference to tell me if the 4100 uses a different fluid than the 4300. Might be worth checking out.






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 03-04-2002, 17:32 Post: 36074
Carter
2002-03-04 00:00:00
Post: 36074
 47 BH Leaking down

Ken
Sounds like you have a serious problem there. I would think that JD would fix it even though it is out of warranty. That is a real safety issue. The fact that it was already repaired once should be an indication that something is not right. What transmission do you have?
If it was a hydro that JD had the problems with the shavings from the transmission self destructing would also take out your SCV and cylinder seals if they hadn't been flushed out of the system>






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 03-05-2002, 05:34 Post: 36094
TomG

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 47 BH Leaking down

Shouldn't be happening. I think that something repaired under warranty that fails a short time later (with no indication of abuse) was never right and warranty protection should be continued. In addition, I think that warranty coverage is intended to protect against buyers against manufacturing defects (which are inevitable in complex products).

Repeated failures might suggest inadequate design rather than manufacturing defects. Inadequate designs that result in safety issues are treated by manufacturer recall programs rather than warranty programs--at least in the auto industry. I believe I'd push the dealer hard on this one before taking a repair bill hit myself. The dealer of course is free to push the manufacturer.






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 03-05-2002, 07:42 Post: 36099
Ken Butner



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 47 BH Leaking down

Carter, I have a hydrostat trans, but never had any trouble with it.

As for pushing JD dealerships, I will not take the time to go over all the nightmare experiences I have had with JD Service Departments. Now, its like what is the point.. Its really ashamed though, because I love the tractor and its a great performer. From a reliabiliy aspect, I am very disappointed in JD.






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 03-05-2002, 09:28 Post: 36106
Carter
2002-03-05 00:00:00
Post: 36106
 47 BH Leaking down

Ken
Sorry to hear about your experience with the dealer. The dealer i've been working with has bent over backwards to answer questions, help with problems whatever. Asked them about JD's out of warranty policy and they indicated that for something like what you are experiencing they would more than likely fix it and try to find out why it failed to begin with. You might want to try and talk to another dealer if you can and see what response you get.
These tractors cost too much to buy and repair to let the manufacturer get away with anything. BTW my 4300 has been relatively troublefree and the fewthings that did get out of whack, the dealer fixed right now.
Good luck and keep us posted.






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