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 04-14-2001, 21:15 Post: 26710
Ray H



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 Hydro Transmissions

I'm going to make my decision on purchasing a compact tractor in the 40 hp range from one of the big three. I'm really undecided about which transmission to purchase. I'm currently considering the hydro trans. Just looking for comments from others on their choice of transmission and why.






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 04-14-2001, 22:50 Post: 26716
Alan L. Lewis



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 Hydro Transmissions

Go with the HST. Reasons:

1. Safety - you fall off the tractor it stops.
2. Infinite control over speed. You go REAL slow just by bearly pressing the pedal.
3. Easy going from forward to reverse, such as when you use the loader.
4. Look ma - no hands!
5. Your wife can drive it.
6. It'll have better resale, so you can recover part of the extra cost.

Alan Lewis






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 04-15-2001, 05:33 Post: 26720
TomG

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HST's are more expensive to buy and more expensive to maintain than gears, and thereís more engine power loss to the wheels. HST's have an advantage when doing a lot of stop and go work such as loader and fork work, but there's not a lot of advantage over gears for most field work. The extra power loss of a HST isn't too great a disadvantage. With the tires and ballast many people run, their tractors are overpowered anyway--the traction tends to break before the engine power quits. Somebody commented once that, other than cost, the only advantage of gears was for people who have to do calibrated ground speed planting operations. Despite all this, I have a 12x4 gear TX. It was the right used compact at the right time for me, and I sort of like my gears. On the other hand, I do find myself sometimes at the end of a long day perched on the side of a mound 'ho-humming' while waiting for the bucket to dump. I have to have one foot on the clutch and one foot on the brakes to hold the tractor on the slope. If I want to add RPM to speed up the bucket, I'd need a third foot for the throttle. Actually, it's better to shift to neutral to save wear on the clutch throw-out bearing, but that's a couple more shifts per operation. Of course, I could just set a higher RPM with the hand throttle, but then the gears may give me a bit too much speed in one range and too little in a lower one. HSTís donít have these difficulties. Sometimes it's enough to make even me wish for a HST. My gear TX does provide four reverses, and three forward and one reverse syncro-meshed gears per range. I might speak less fondly of my gear TX if it had less capability.






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 04-15-2001, 22:14 Post: 26744
Mark



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Have a new TC33D new like 6hrs. Today I had to move an old truck out of the way to make room for mowing. I thought it would be a good test on the limitations of the hydro trans. The truck is an old 1 ton flat bed (heavy) and it needed to be pushed up a small grade in soft (not wet) ground, (something my old gear tractor could do if it could get traction) so I pull up to it in low and eased the pedal some until I think it should be moving, But it's not, so push down some more, still not moving, wheels not spinning, trans sounds like it should be moving, I push the pedal all the way down now, (figure if it's gonna break I want to know now), but still doesn't move, wheels won't spin. I back off the pedal. What did I just buy!!!!! Ok calm down I say, The mechanic at the dealer told me they have seen allot of things but have never had a boomer come in that needed work on a hydro trans. Well we'll see about that. here goes I throttle up and smash the pedal to the floor, WOW the tractor hops up, all 4 wheels start digging and away we go. It spun digging and churning all the way up the hill until I lost all traction. To sum it up Yes you loose some power in the hydro over the gears but, the power that makes it to the wheels is plenty to spin them over. What else do you need?
My problem is with the lack of power in the FEL 7308 seems the relieve valve is blowing off way to soon. Any one else having disappointing results with there 7308? is there an adjustment you can make to the valve?






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 04-16-2001, 00:26 Post: 26747
Roger L.



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It sounds like you are having fun with the new TC. Congratulations on the new toy!
The relief valve for any loader is easily adjusted. I don't know the scheme on yours, but it is usually just a matter of changing the shims under a coil spring. A ten minute job.
I was curious about mine, so I had a "T" connector put into the high pressure side of the hydraulic line where it enters the loader valve. I screwed a small oil-damped pressure gauge into the open side of the "T" . My gauge came from a used tool store, but I've noticed that the local welding supply shop sells a similar valve. With this rig you can tell at a glance what kind of pressure that the pump is developing when you pick up a load. And with a little practice you can make a pretty good estimate of weight. The entire gauge installation cost less than twenty bucks. Of course it will also let you know at what pressure the relief valve is beginning to bypass and you can compare that number with the one in the manual.






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 04-16-2001, 08:41 Post: 26755
Murf

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While I prefer not to contradict people unless necessary, I feel in this case I MUST. Allan, I feel your comments are GROSSLY misleading. In the order you set them out; 1) I have VERY rarely ever seen anyone do any amount of work on a gear tractor where they had the hand throttle set and would not have had the 'cruise control' set on the hydro, if you use falling off as a test of safety then you're obviously NOT wearing your seat-belt, thats inexcusable these days, 2) as was mentioned peviously, where ground speed is critical, it is nearly impossible to do with hydro because of the variables involved, like heat, load, etc., 3) you CANNOT use the shifter as brakes with ANY equipment, you must stop before reversing direction, with a shuttle there is no real disadvantage, unless you are using it as a commercial loader (not very likely), 4)NO HANDS? I hope you mean to shift, in which case you still have to shift ranges even with a hydro., and with a GST-type trans. it is only a minor movement of your left hand to pick a gear, no clutching involved, 5) If someone is not able to operate a clutch in order to pull away or stop then they probably are not proficient to operate the equipment, regardless of gender or age, 6)almost every used hydro. unit I have seen were the same price of a gear unit since people are very hesitant to buy them because of the potential for astronomic repair costs. Now, having vented enough, Ray, go to several dealers who sell both types and talk to them, get the differences first hand and explain what you want the machine for, they will advise you accordingly. Best of luck.






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 04-16-2001, 12:28 Post: 26759
BillMullens

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 Hydro Transmissions

Most of us have had this same question. I talked to dealers, farmers, landscapers and loggers that used their tractors at home and in business. Around here, the gears were the majority choice. I heard "Hydros are nice, but..." many times. Fear of high repair costs, (even though 2 of 3 dealers I talked to said they'd never had to repair a hydro unit) and higher initial cost for the hydro were the reasons that I went with gears. For my purposes (mostly hauling rocks and mowing) I couldn't justify the expenditure. And I do admit a prejudice for gears. Bill in WV






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 04-16-2001, 14:21 Post: 26763
Bird Senter

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Dang, Murf, I've always figured you have a lot more experience and knowledge than I where these tractors are concerned, but in this particular case, I have no doubt that Alan was a lot closer to being right than you are. Maybe it's a difference in the part of the world we live in, or what the tractors are used for, but if you were talking to anyone in my area, Alan was right. Admittedly, the really big farms (of which there are many all around me) using big tractors to plow, plant, and fertilize still use a lot of geared tractors, although the John Deere powershift is very popular. But for smaller tractors, the HST wins hands down in every category; convenience, safety, maneuverability, and resale.






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 04-16-2001, 14:56 Post: 26765
kay



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 Hydro Transmissions

No one could ever convince me that my HST isn't the best thing sinced sliced bread. Even when digging unloosened dirt with the bucket, just put it in low gear, 4whd, set the "cruise" at slow speed, and work the bucket into the dirt until it is full. Can even use the differential lock as you go. Just as good as being in a gear. True, I am not doing field work or needing to have a particular ground speed, but for everything else - it is the best of the two worlds. BTW this is a JD4300. I doubt it can be any less on other brands.






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 04-16-2001, 15:32 Post: 26766
Murf

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Until a year ago I had one Hydro and 6 GST Kubota's in the fleet, doing the EXACT same tasks, the Hydro used 20% more fuel, and ran on average, 20 degrees F. hotter in the rad, and 40 hotter in the transmission. While I agree that for some things it is more CONVENIENT, for the average user it is a very expensive luxury. Bird, I know you are knowledgeable in these things, but after 4000 hrs. and two years of real world, head-to-head comparison, I'll stick to GST's, thanks. Before you ask, yes you read right, my machines AVERAGE 2000 hrs. per year, EACH. The other problem I have with Hydro.'s is merely personal opinion, but after 20 years of this I have noticed one thing, convenience leads to complacency. My snow-plow trucks are a perfect example, the automatics would fail on average once per year, and the whole truck was dead after 4 seasons, after installing monitors it was discovered that even my best drivers tried to rush between forward & reverse, and were trying to plow too fast. After changing to standard's, the grinding would remind them to completely stop before reversing, and they discovered that plowing slowly gave them better control (less damage), bounced the driver around less, and used a LOT less fuel. The trucks now last 6 years, and are worth more in the end. Hmmmmmm, 50% more life and less repairs, PLUS better fuel mileage....... Hydro, Gear, Ford , Chev. to each their own and to all a good night, as always. Best of luck friends.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > New Holland Tractor Review Forum

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Alan L. Lewis 1 | BillMullens 1 | Bird Senter 4 | david godollei 2 | Don M 1 | JeffM 2 | JonB 1 | kay 1 | Mark 2 | Murf 4 | Ray H 2 | Roger L. 4 | Stephen R. Cebenko 2 | TomG 2 |

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