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DFB
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2000-12-09          22268

It's sure been cold lately down to -0 degrees and yesterday while in an auto parts store saw a 120V magnetic blockheater at very reasonable price. Got me thinking about using it on the HST of my 4100. Where is the best spot to put it to use? I was thinking about the lowest point opposite the drain plug but then saw a flat plate under the dipstick. I think the main resevoir is located there. Never used one before these things don't localize the heat too much right?

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2000-12-09          22270

I wouldn't worry about to much heat in a area whith one for your application and I think they are excellent if your tractor sits in the cold. Most wear on all parts of engines are cold starts and as much as I've never seen any reports on hydro's I feel that what you are looking to do would help you. With the big farm tractors they are now offering transmission heaters on them, might be soon we see them for the little guys too. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2000-12-10          22292

My dealer said that using a good winter hydraulic oil was better than using heaters. He said they don't actually get much heat through the case into the oil. I use a decent multi-season oil, but I'm with Art. I also use a magnetic heater, and sometimes two. If you use them, you do have to be careful. Last winter, I unplugged one, pulled it off the tractor and inadvertently sat it down on an extension cord. The cord was pretty fried when I found it.

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DFB
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2000-12-10          22295

Thanks,for the replies Tom and Art. I have 5W-30W in the engine right now and the JD low viscosity HY-GARD(JDM J20D). -0 degrees again this morning. I 've been considering switching to a synthetic in the HST at 500hrs ....

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lsheaffer
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 1082 Northern Illinois
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2000-12-10          22303

If you real want to effectively warm up the tractor use a water type heater. The oil heater will heat the oil in the pan, but would have to be on for a long time to gat to the parts that move. A water heater will heat the pistons & cylinders. The problem isn't that the oil is to thick, it is that the block is too cold making it harder for the engine to turn over & fire. A water heater will make it start like it is summer. ....

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Dave Wells
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2000-12-10          22306

DFB, in case you didn't know, JD does make a block heater and a hydraulic Oil heater for the 4100Hyd. Look in the posts under "Glow Plug Add-In" for a discussion of the heaters. Incidentally, I don't think my hydraulic Oil heater will fit where the drain plug is - looks like I'll end up installing it where the filter screen is. ....

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DFB
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2000-12-10          22310

Dave Wells, I read your post on the hyd heater. From your description you need to drain the HST fluid to install it in either location correct? You say you can use in place of the drainplug in either location. That's good. You could use 2 right? Why won't it work right for you at the bottom of the sump? ....

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Dave Wells
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2000-12-10          22319

DFB, yes, you do have to drain the hydro fluid to install the heater. It appears that there is more than one place you can install the heater. My dealer had never installed one, so I called JD direct and was told that the Hydraulic Oil heater replaces the drain plug on the bottom of the Hyd. Oil reservoir. I think that would be the best place - it's at the very bottom of the oil reservoir, so the heater would heat the most fluid the quickest. There is a filter screen on the back, just below the rear PTO shaft. Looks like the heater could be installed there also. Looking at the Tech Manual for the 4100 Hydro, it appears that the heater could also be installed in a test port on the left side of the case, behind the Hyd. Oil Dipstick. Now, I haven't installed mine yet, bet it APPEARS that the heater element will not fit where the drain plug is - different thread sizes. When I do install mine, I'm going to check all the locations I can find, in the event I want to add another heater - which, incidentally, you can. The block heater, which heats the engine coolant, is a 120V/450Watt heater. The Hyd. Oil heater is a 120V/150Watt heater. Of course, you may not really need to install more than one, if any Hyd Oil heater - it all depends on what temps your tractor is stored at, and how quickly and how much you want to heat the Hyd. Oil. The Hyd. Oil heater isn't really required to help with starting, but it does help get things up to operating temp quicker. ....

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DFB
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2000-12-10          22321

Thanks for laying that out Dave. I didn't realize that the JD engine heater was for the coolant. Len says thats the way to go. I'm mostly concerned with the getting the HST moving. Seems locating that heater in place of the suction screen drain plug would allow the easiest access. ....

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Dave Wells
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2000-12-11          22336

Yes, the access to the Hyd Oil heater would definitely be easier if it were installed at the suction screen. In that location the heater is kinda close to the pin for the drawbar, but I think that wouldn't cause too much of a problem.
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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2000-12-12          22359

DFB: I use a NH 0W-30 engine oil. It still takes a few seconds for the oil light to out, but I don't worry about it much. I believe the 0W-30 is quite a bit better than 5W-30 when it's really cold. My dealer recommended the oil and said that their service manager uses it year-around in most of his equipment.

I seem to recall something negative about using oil pan heaters. Something like: If an oil pan heater is big enough to make much difference in oil viscosity, than the oil gets pretty hot where the heater is located. The heat doesn't do oil additives any good. I don't know if this is a valid idea. Maybe somebody will comment. ....

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DFB
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2000-12-12          22360

Tom, for sure 0W-30W would be a fine choice . Never thought about it for year round use though. I've been using Deere products. I don't think they offer that grade. Their viscosity chart rates rates 5w-30w for down to -22 degrees F. The other end of the scale is more interesting. The viscosity chart in my manual shows the limits of the 30w muti grades as 86 degrees F vs 122 degrees F for both straight 30w and 15w-40w. The 15w-40w is what I used in the warmer part of the year. One dealer I talked to was pushing the straight 30w for summer use. I've been told a straight wgt is more stable than a multi viscosity blend. BTW. The JD screw in hst heater is the only way to go. The 4100 has aluminum transmission cases. ....

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KlayW in MI
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2000-12-12          22385

DFB, where did you find a 5W-30 rated for diesel? I have wanted to run that this winter but was unable to locate a 5W-30 bottle that says OK for diesel use. ....

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DFB
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2000-12-12          22386

Klay, the oil was purchased at a John Deere dealership. It's labeled TORQ-GARD SUPREME 5w-30. Price is decent too! Less than $2.00 a quart. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2000-12-13          22396

I think I'll see if I can get some stats for the NH 0W-30 to see what the viscosity is like at typical summer temperatures. It's possible that the oil isn't thinner than straight 30W, but it just doesn't thicken when it's really cold. This oil stuff does get complicated. My brother-in-law found some stats for gasoline engine oil, but I forget which brand. According to the stats, their 5W-30 was thicken than their 10W-30 at operating temperatures. Regarding the stability of multi-grades, I recall hearing something like: The long polymers that give multi-grades their properties tend to break apart during operation which alters the multi-grade properties of the oil. Sure does get complicated. Hope my dealer gives good advice. I don't think I want to turn myself into a petro-engineer just to run a tractor. ....

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Scott
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2000-12-13          22398

I use Mobil 1 synthetic 0w-30 and it works great for the Michigan cold. The Mobil 1 is diesel rated and for the $4 or so a quart, it is definately worth it. When the engine starts, the oil light never stays on. For the winter, you can't beat synthetics. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2000-12-13          22399

Tom you are right that multi-weight oils do break down to the lower or base viscosity under hard use. I don't have any problems with it under normal operation of tractors or cars as long as it is a good oil to begin with. I do have my favorite's that I perfer in my toys and it is not synthetics. I do believe that they have some good products but I haven't played with them in a number of years. ....

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